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So my question is whether the following will work.

Using my Evil Suns Shockjump Dragster.
I move and advance 4+ thus engaging the deep strike mechanic.
I land somewhere back of the board, engage my shooty shooty.
Then I use the “Go Fasta” stratagem. I move AND advance again. Getting a 4+ and thus teleporting again back to safety.

Now I know this is just Orky madness and the risk of Mortal Wounds is high. But is this legitimate or is there something stopping 2 advance moves in one turn etc…?

MadMekRoff wrote:
So my question is whether the following will work.

Using my Evil Suns Shockjump Dragster.
I move and advance 4+ thus engaging the deep strike mechanic.
I land somewhere back of the board, engage my shooty shooty.
Then I use the “Go Fasta” stratagem. I move AND advance again. Getting a 4+ and thus teleporting again back to safety.

Now I know this is just Orky madness and the risk of Mortal Wounds is high. But is this legitimate or is there something stopping 2 advance moves in one turn etc…?

The stratagem is called "Drive-by Krumpin", took me a while to find.

Edit: That being said, yes, you're perfectly permitted to advance as part of that move and try to activate the teleport. Just keep in mind that you do have to roll the advance distance again, you don't get to keep the result from the movement phase. As stated below you cannot move with the Dragsta any further that turn as they are Reinforcements, thus the stratagem cannot be used.

Thanks

Yeah, it's a fifty/fifty chance every time you advance, but I just wanted to check I could attempt it

MadMekRoff wrote:
So my question is whether the following will work.

Using my Evil Suns Shockjump Dragster.
I move and advance 4+ thus engaging the deep strike mechanic.
I land somewhere back of the board, engage my shooty shooty.
Then I use the “Go Fasta” stratagem. I move AND advance again. Getting a 4+ and thus teleporting again back to safety.

Now I know this is just Orky madness and the risk of Mortal Wounds is high. But is this legitimate or is there something stopping 2 advance moves in one turn etc…?

Nothing prevents you from Advancing twice in one turn if you get to move twice in the turn.

Some would say when you teleport, you are subject to the Reinforcement rule and are thus not an eligible target for Drive-by Krumpin.

 alextroy wrote:
Some would say when you teleport, you are subject to the Reinforcement rule and are thus not an eligible target for Drive-by Krumpin.

That is actually a very good point and I suspect that you are right. Hooray for Special Snowflake FAQs!

The teleport 100% makes you become reinforcements (as defined in the BRB) and as per the FAQ you cannot move further that turn "for any reason", except in the same breath the FAQ says you can charge, so who knows anymore.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The teleport 100% makes you become reinforcements (as defined in the BRB).

Can you quote the BRB/FAQs on this? My definition of reinforcements is different.

Also FYI OP the Evil Sunz Dragster will be teleporting on a 3+ thanks to the clan trait.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The teleport 100% makes you become reinforcements (as defined in the BRB).

Can you quote the BRB/FAQs on this? My definition of reinforcements is different.

Also FYI OP the Evil Sunz Dragster will be teleporting on a 3+ thanks to the clan trait.

BRB page 177 wrote:REINFORCEMENTS
Many units have the ability to be set up on the battlefield mid-turn, sometimes by using teleporters, grav chutes or other, more esoteric means. Typically, this happens at the end of the Movement phase, but it can also happen during other phases. Units that are set up in this manner cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive – their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield – but they can otherwise act normally (shoot, charge, etc.) for the rest of their turn. Units that arrive as reinforcements count as having moved in their Movement phase for all rules purposes, such as shooting Heavy weapons (pg 180). Any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the battle counts as having been destroyed.

I already know what you're going to try and claim, that because the Dragsta was on the battlefield at the start of the turn it doesn't count as reinforcements. This simply is not true, due to the first line of the reinforcements rule. Also, please reference the Dragsta's rule:

Codex: Orks Page 101 wrote:Shokk Tunnel: If you roll a 4+ when Advancing with this model, remove it from the battlefield and set it up again anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" away from any enemy units. After doing so, roll a D6; on a 4+ the model suffers 1 mortal wound.

It is removed from the battlefield and set up. The rule for reinforcements clearly states any unit that is set up on the battlefield mid turn is reinforcements.

I've opened a can of worms here haven't I...

Thanks for the clarification. I'd forgotten about the erratas on stuff like Warptime.

Cheers

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The teleport 100% makes you become reinforcements (as defined in the BRB).

Can you quote the BRB/FAQs on this? My definition of reinforcements is different.

Also FYI OP the Evil Sunz Dragster will be teleporting on a 3+ thanks to the clan trait.

BRB page 177 wrote:REINFORCEMENTS
Many units have the ability to be set up on the battlefield mid-turn, sometimes by using teleporters, grav chutes or other, more esoteric means. Typically, this happens at the end of the Movement phase, but it can also happen during other phases. Units that are set up in this manner cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive – their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield – but they can otherwise act normally (shoot, charge, etc.) for the rest of their turn. Units that arrive as reinforcements count as having moved in their Movement phase for all rules purposes, such as shooting Heavy weapons (pg 180). Any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the battle counts as having been destroyed.

I already know what you're going to try and claim, that because the Dragsta was on the battlefield at the start of the turn it doesn't count as reinforcements. This simply is not true, due to the first line of the reinforcements rule. Also, please reference the Dragsta's rule:

Codex: Orks Page 101 wrote:Shokk Tunnel: If you roll a 4+ when Advancing with this model, remove it from the battlefield and set it up again anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" away from any enemy units. After doing so, roll a D6; on a 4+ the model suffers 1 mortal wound.

It is removed from the battlefield and set up. The rule for reinforcements clearly states any unit that is set up on the battlefield mid turn is reinforcements.

As I thought. A unit that has already arrived on the battlefield by definition is not a 'reinforcement'. This is plain English but I have other points help prove this:

1. Note that the BRB FAQ questions regarding a unit that is removed from the battlefield and set up again fall under the 'units and weapon abilities' section of the Q&A and not the 'reinforcements' section.

2: One of the questions regarding the removing and subsequent setting up again of a unit is as follows:

BRB errata wrote: Q: If a unit uses a rule that removes them from the battlefield and sets them up again, such as the Teleport Homer ability or the Gate of Infinity psychic power, does that unit count as having moved for the purposes of moving and firing Heavy weapons?
A: Yes

This question is entirely moot and pointless if units that are removed from the battlefield and then set up again are actually considered reinforcements. As you've stated from the reinforcement sidebar above the question would have been answered already.

You're wrong on this I think. You're an Ork player aren't you? Let us teleport around the field like idiots! It's propa Orky!

E - grammar

I'm not wrong on this because the rules support my view. The FAQ you quoted has no relevance. Lots of FAQs are "moot and pointless" because they simply clarify RaW that people for some reason do not understand.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I'm not wrong on this because the rules support my view. The FAQ you quoted has no relevance. Lots of FAQs are "moot and pointless" because they simply clarify RaW that people for some reason do not understand.

The rules don't support your view though? For a start a basic understanding of the language in which the rules are written is required. I've never known "reinforcement" to mean "a unit that is currently on the battlefield and relocates to another place". So there's that, entirely logical, sensible argument. Not to mention the fact that GW, from their FAQ responses I have shown you, also don't agree that a unit that is removed and replaced on the battlefield is classed as a "reinforcement".

This is the same, inane argument that you used to claim that Da Jump didn't work outside of the deployment zone turn 1 pre latest FAQ and we both know how that turned out. Let's see what the Ork FAQ says. If it isn't addressed, I know how I'll be playing it. You can keep playing it as you wish in the fairytale land where assault guns can't be used if the model advances.

E - the FAQ I quoted, with regards to "REINFORCEMENTS" and abilities that allow a unit to be set up again when it is already on the battlefield have no relevance? To a discussion about exactly that? OK then.

It doesn't matter what Reinforcements means in English because the game redefines what the word means.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

This is the same, inane argument that you used to claim that Da Jump didn't work outside of the deployment zone turn 1 pre latest FAQ and we both know how that turned out.

Yeah, the rule got changed and vindicated my position as correct, because they had to change the rule to fix it. Thank you for proving my point!

Do we need to go through this again?

This is one of the regular debates - see here and here
for examples. There's not a consensus one way or the other as the term "reinforcements" is not, despite what BCB says, explicitly defined in the rules.

Aelyn wrote:
Do we need to go through this again?

This is one of the regular debates - see here and here
for examples. There's not a consensus one way or the other as the term "reinforcements" is not, despite what BCB says, explicitly defined in the rules.

What ?? There is a sidebar in the core rules clearly defining units that are set up mid are reinforcements.

Reinforcements

Many units have the
ability to be set up on
the battlefield mid-turn,
sometimes by using
teleporters, grav chutes or
other, more esoteric means.
Typically, this happens at
the end of the Movement
phase, but it can also
happen during other
phases. Units that are set
up in this manner cannot
move or Advance further
during the turn they arrive
– their entire Movement
phase is used in deploying
to the battlefield – but they
can otherwise act normally
(shoot, charge, etc.) for the
rest of their turn. Units that
arrive as reinforcements
count as having moved in
their Movement phase for
all rules purposes, such as
shooting Heavy weapons.
Any unit that has not
arrived on the battlefield by
the end of the battle counts
as having been destroyed.

Even if we agree that reinforcements arent clearly defined, the rule above clearly states that units which are set up mid turn cannot move any advance any further.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
It doesn't matter what Reinforcements means in English because the game redefines what the word means.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

This is the same, inane argument that you used to claim that Da Jump didn't work outside of the deployment zone turn 1 pre latest FAQ and we both know how that turned out.

Yeah, the rule got changed and vindicated my position as correct, because they had to change the rule to fix it. Thank you for proving my point!

They didn't vindicate your position and the rule didn't get changed because of it. They released a primer that you disagreed with because it wasn't from "official sources" (despite coming from the community site).

 p5freak wrote:

Aelyn wrote:
Do we need to go through this again?

This is one of the regular debates - see here and here
for examples. There's not a consensus one way or the other as the term "reinforcements" is not, despite what BCB says, explicitly defined in the rules.

What ?? There is a sidebar in the core rules clearly defining units that are set up mid are reinforcements.

Even if we agree that reinforcements arent clearly defined, the rule above clearly states that units which are set up mid turn cannot move any advance any further.

Both you and BCB are placing far too much importance and value on the words "set up". If you believe there to be a meaning of "REINFORCEMENTS" that's contrary to the actual meaning, I posit that there are multiple definitions of the words "set up". Some of which apply to this rule, some of which don't.

Also we don't need the quotation from the primer again, BCB has already posted it. You're literally just cluttering the thread with information we've already seen.

 p5freak wrote:

Aelyn wrote:
Do we need to go through this again?

This is one of the regular debates - see here and here
for examples. There's not a consensus one way or the other as the term "reinforcements" is not, despite what BCB says, explicitly defined in the rules.

What ?? There is a sidebar in the core rules clearly defining units that are set up mid are reinforcements.

<snip>

Even if we agree that reinforcements arent clearly defined, the rule above clearly states that units which are set up mid turn cannot move any advance any further.

It also says in the same sentence that this is because "their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield", yet the unit in question was already deployed to the battlefield, and also says they can Charge which is a form of movement. The implication is that being set up mid-turn counts as the unit's entire Movement phase, but tyat furthermoves in other phases should be allowed, but this is not clear one way or the other as the sidebar is badly phrased.

My point is that instead of trying to answer the question actually being asked, this has spun off into another argument about whether or not the word "reinforcements" is defined - which seems to be one of the most common arguments we have on this forum. This just muddies the water as previous discussions have been contingent on whether or not the unit is "reinforcements", which doesn't even apply in this instance as the part of the rule that may prevent advancing is before the part of the rule that describes (not defines) reinforcements.

EDIT: The strongest argument I can see against this comes from a different part of the FAQ:

The rules for reinforcements say that when a unit is set up on the battlefield as reinforcements, it cannot move or Advance further that turn, but can otherwise act normally (shoot, charge, etc.).
Q: Can such a unit make a charge move? Can it pile in and consolidate?
A: Yes to both questions – the unit can declare a charge and make a charge move, and if it is chosen to fight, it can pile in and consolidate.
Q: Can such a unit move or Advance for any other reason e.g. because of an ability such as The Swarmlord’s Hive Commander ability, or because of a psychic power such as Warptime from the Dark Hereticus discipline, or because
of a Stratagem like Metabolic Overdrive from Codex: Tyranids, etc.?
A: No.

The language of the first part of this question is not consistent with the BRB ("set up on the battlefield as reinforcements" as opposed to "set up on the battlefield mid-turn"), but this difference is not called out. This suggests that any instance of being set up mid-term is supposed to qualify as reinforcements and should be treated the same - but it's not definitive.

What we really need is an FAQ along the lines of:

Q: Do the rules for reinforcements apply to models which have been removed from the table and set up again, such as through a power like Da Jump?

Until then, the ambiguity will remain and this argument will keep repeating.

MadMekRoff wrote:
I've opened a can of worms here haven't I...

Thanks for the clarification. I'd forgotten about the erratas on stuff like Warptime.

Cheers

Yup, it's an old, rusty can of worms that regularly gets opened around here.

Your best bet is to talk with your opponent and see where he comes down on the issue of whether the Shockjump Dragsta would be subject to the rule in the reinforcements section about not being able to advance further one you set him up again. Obviously there are two schools of thought on it, and it's best to check before the game so that you can agree which way to play it.

 doctortom wrote:

MadMekRoff wrote:
I've opened a can of worms here haven't I...

Thanks for the clarification. I'd forgotten about the erratas on stuff like Warptime.

Cheers

Yup, it's an old, rusty can of worms that regularly gets opened around here.

Your best bet is to talk with your opponent and see where he comes down on the issue of whether the Shockjump Dragsta would be subject to the rule in the reinforcements section about not being able to advance further one you set him up again. Obviously there are two schools of thought on it, and it's best to check before the game so that you can agree which way to play it.

Good call. The ITC guys at my shop are usually fine as long as everyone agrees stuff before hand.