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Do or have any races just evolve normally in the 40k universe?

The Orks and eldar are created by the old ones. Someone very powerful is obviously watchers ng over and guiding the Tau. It's heavily implied the old toads also had something to do with humanity's origin.

I was thinking the necrontyr might have evolved naturally but as I recall the nightbringer was in fact orbiting their home star, feeding on it and causing it to be so violent it basically sprayed the necrontyr home world with radiation storms that made them the way they were , so even their evolution was interfered with by great powers, if only unintentionally(?)

Now the old toads, the slann, did they evolve normally? Did anyone tamper with their evolution? Were they like one of the few races that got to evovle normally?

I don't recall anyone asking this before. So maybe this is an original question. I assume aybe some minor races got to evolve before the Imperium murdered them. But if so they hardly matter now.

In the timescale of 40k evolution simply cannot occur. 10,000 years is nothing when you're talking about that.

That's what makes the jump the Tau made from stone age to where they are now in a few thousand years so mysterious. Either it was due to the The Warp tampering with time or something else.

There's nothing mentioned of the Old Ones origins in modern 40k. They're a creator race, why would they need origins (It's turtles all the way down ) and frankly it's something that should never be explained.

 Grimtuff wrote:
In the timescale of 40k evolution simply cannot occur. 10,000 years is nothing when you're talking about that.

That's what makes the jump the Tau made from stone age to where they are now in a few thousand years so mysterious. Either it was due to the The Warp tampering with time or something else.

There's nothing mentioned of the Old Ones origins in modern 40k. They're a creator race, why would they need origins (It's turtles all the way down ) and frankly it's something that should never be explained.

Look at how human technology exploded in the century between 1900 and 2000. Maybe the tau's advancement was natural, with a warp storm keeping the imperium from exterminating them.

Also the 40k timeline extends back at least 60 million ± years, plenty of time do do some evolvin'.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
In the timescale of 40k evolution simply cannot occur. 10,000 years is nothing when you're talking about that.

That's what makes the jump the Tau made from stone age to where they are now in a few thousand years so mysterious. Either it was due to the The Warp tampering with time or something else.

There's nothing mentioned of the Old Ones origins in modern 40k. They're a creator race, why would they need origins (It's turtles all the way down ) and frankly it's something that should never be explained.

Look at how human technology exploded in the century between 1900 and 2000. Maybe the tau's advancement was natural, with a warp storm keeping the imperium from exterminating them.

Also the 40k timeline extends back at least 60 million ± years, plenty of time do do some evolvin'.

The evolution of humanities technological progression has been tied to mass engagements or confrontation. For example the 1900-2000, what are the major things that happened? Multiple cases throughout history can be cited on the evolution of collective learning due to conflict.

Tau could have had major internal conflicts to evolve their technology rapidly.

Isn't that stated explicitly, that the Tau were fractious and warlike until the emergence of the Ethereal caste to make them stop shooting each other?

It's strongly supposed that the Eldar had a hand in helping to advance the Tau.



As for evolution, for all our talk of how huge the time scales are in 40K they pale into comparison to nature. Even over 65million years dinosaurs (far as we know) never developed technologies the same as we have. Similarly other species could be far faster and smarter than us and advance at a much quicker pace. Heck a few choice deaths in our own history have held back science on more than one occasion. The falling of some Empires leading to fracturing of knowledge and the breakdown or order that took generations to restore. Heck some things are still lost to us, such as the secret of Greek Fire (as far as I'm aware).

So yeah 10K years is honestly nothing.



That said many of the species in 40K have evolved naturally; they are mostly crushed under the heavy boot of the Imperium. Existing now in fringe worlds and small enclaves in the fringes. And that's without talking of the countless less intelligent species that inhabit many of the worlds of the Imperium.

So yes there's loads out there. Eldar, Humans, Tau, Kroot, Vespid, the original organic bodies of the Necrons; all come to mind as species that originally evolved from nothing to something. Tyranids are totally unknown as to their true history and origin and their evolutionary process is vastly accelerated compared to normal nature. It's likely that they could look nothing like what they "originally" looked like; if that is even a concept to them.

Where can I read about the Eldar influencing the Tau?

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Where can I read about the Eldar influencing the Tau?

I seem to recall it being alleged in one of the codex

It's in Xenology.

A human (ish) tech magos suggests that because an alien has a gland shaped like "x" and that the tau ethereals also have a gland shaped like "x" then they must be related somehow.

(Causality does not imply causation. One of the things humanity has forgotten in 38,000 years).

The illustration of a tau in that book also shows FEET not the hooves they have.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:


Look at how human technology exploded in the century between 1900 and 2000. Maybe the tau's advancement was natural, with a warp storm keeping the imperium from exterminating them.

This. It takes a few select technologies and the right social structure to trigger rapid advancements. Things like the printing press, university system of education, a culture that accepts innovation. All of those could have happened in our Bronze Age, but did not. The Tau going from Stone Age to gunpowder in a couple thousand years isn't exceptional if you assume that they were on the cusp of Bronze Age technology when the Imperium first encountered them

Don't forget that the Tau are shorter lived than humans, so you would get more generational development over the same time period. Not evolution-wise of course, but it probably has some bearing on cultural and scientific advancement.

 chromedog wrote:
It's in Xenology.

A human (ish) tech magos suggests that because an alien has a gland shaped like "x" and that the tau ethereals also have a gland shaped like "x" then they must be related somehow.

(Causality does not imply causation. One of the things humanity has forgotten in 38,000 years).

The illustration of a tau in that book also shows FEET not the hooves they have.

It was a pheromone organ they shared. And the Eldar were known to have hunted the Q'uorl in search of a sample. There were other associations. You're ignoring a good part of it.

And I think you meant correlation does not imply causation. Which is quite a valuable saying to remember in science, but not so relevant in literary criticism.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
In the timescale of 40k evolution simply cannot occur. 10,000 years is nothing when you're talking about that.

That's what makes the jump the Tau made from stone age to where they are now in a few thousand years so mysterious. Either it was due to the The Warp tampering with time or something else.

There's nothing mentioned of the Old Ones origins in modern 40k. They're a creator race, why would they need origins (It's turtles all the way down ) and frankly it's something that should never be explained.

Look at how human technology exploded in the century between 1900 and 2000. Maybe the tau's advancement was natural, with a warp storm keeping the imperium from exterminating them.

Also the 40k timeline extends back at least 60 million ± years, plenty of time do do some evolvin'.

who says our evolution wasnt sped up by some mysterious benefactor?

The tau have a water and air caste and an earth and fire caste. Maybe the fire and earth caste have hooves since they occupied plains, the water castes may have feet since they're better for swimming.

That's not why the caste is called that though...

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Techpriestsupport wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
In the timescale of 40k evolution simply cannot occur. 10,000 years is nothing when you're talking about that.

That's what makes the jump the Tau made from stone age to where they are now in a few thousand years so mysterious. Either it was due to the The Warp tampering with time or something else.

There's nothing mentioned of the Old Ones origins in modern 40k. They're a creator race, why would they need origins (It's turtles all the way down ) and frankly it's something that should never be explained.

Look at how human technology exploded in the century between 1900 and 2000. Maybe the tau's advancement was natural, with a warp storm keeping the imperium from exterminating them.

Also the 40k timeline extends back at least 60 million ± years, plenty of time do do some evolvin'.

who says our evolution wasnt sped up by some mysterious benefactor?

Didnt the necrons insert the pariah gene into the the humies. Or has that been bumblefuk handwaved away?

 Grimtuff wrote:
That's not why the caste is called that though...

ARE we sure the water caste didn't start out on the coasts, sailing the seas, and retained feet while other casts settles plains and developed hooves?

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Techpriestsupport wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
In the timescale of 40k evolution simply cannot occur. 10,000 years is nothing when you're talking about that.

That's what makes the jump the Tau made from stone age to where they are now in a few thousand years so mysterious. Either it was due to the The Warp tampering with time or something else.

There's nothing mentioned of the Old Ones origins in modern 40k. They're a creator race, why would they need origins (It's turtles all the way down ) and frankly it's something that should never be explained.

Look at how human technology exploded in the century between 1900 and 2000. Maybe the tau's advancement was natural, with a warp storm keeping the imperium from exterminating them.

Also the 40k timeline extends back at least 60 million ± years, plenty of time do do some evolvin'.

who says our evolution wasnt sped up by some mysterious benefactor?

You mean the Emperor of Mankind? Or do you mean the black geometric slab from the cosmos?

As an aside, humanity itself is evolving in 40K, but the entirety of the Imperium revolves around a static status quo, hence the “purge the mutant, shun the psycker” mentality (even though the Emperor was attempting to foster/control the psychic developments of mankind).

Perhaps I’m forgetting, but is there any allusions in the 40K literature that humanity itself was shaped by one of the older races? My lore knowledge is mostly from the original books, and I seem to recall they tried to pass humanity off as an unplanned accident that arose after the events of the War in Heaven. In that, the Old One planned the likes of the Ork & Eldar race, but humanity’s appearance was neither seeded by the Old Ones - and we sorta upset the cosmic balance they’d planned.

 Stormonu wrote:
As an aside, humanity itself is evolving in 40K, but the entirety of the Imperium revolves around a static status quo, hence the “purge the mutant, shun the psycker” mentality (even though the Emperor was attempting to foster/control the psychic developments of mankind).

Perhaps I’m forgetting, but is there any allusions in the 40K literature that humanity itself was shaped by one of the older races? My lore knowledge is mostly from the original books, and I seem to recall they tried to pass humanity off as an unplanned accident that arose after the events of the War in Heaven. In that, the Old One planned the likes of the Ork & Eldar race, but humanity’s appearance was neither seeded by the Old Ones - and we sorta upset the cosmic balance they’d planned.

I don't recall any specific allusions; I know I've considered the possibility as an in-universe explanation of why the Eldar and the humans look so similar (rather than the out-of-universe "the writers wanted elves in the game").

Older lore implied that external Necron intervention was responsible for the Pariah/Blank gene, but just about everything about the Necrons has been retconned since then, so I'm not sure where it stands these days.

 Stormonu wrote:
As an aside, humanity itself is evolving in 40K, but the entirety of the Imperium revolves around a static status quo, hence the “purge the mutant, shun the psycker” mentality (even though the Emperor was attempting to foster/control the psychic developments of mankind).

Perhaps I’m forgetting, but is there any allusions in the 40K literature that humanity itself was shaped by one of the older races? My lore knowledge is mostly from the original books, and I seem to recall they tried to pass humanity off as an unplanned accident that arose after the events of the War in Heaven. In that, the Old One planned the likes of the Ork & Eldar race, but humanity’s appearance was neither seeded by the Old Ones - and we sorta upset the cosmic balance they’d planned.

In the 3rd ed Necron 'dex an Eldar mentions that the creatures humans evolved from were meant to be just a part of Earths ecosystem, but in the absence of supervision evolved into us.

The Eldar also laments that while the Eldar didn't do anything to humanity, as back then they loathed to disturb what little life remained in the galaxy, there were others who didn't have such qualms.

Dunno how this fluff goes nowadays.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
That's not why the caste is called that though...

ARE we sure the water caste didn't start out on the coasts, sailing the seas, and retained feet while other casts settles plains and developed hooves?

It could also be that the "water caste" is a human translation that owes more to the fact that the Tau names for the castes map to whatever the Tau equivalent of the classical elements of human mysticism, rather than a specific allusion to "water." I know older books (the 4e book, IA3) explicitly stated that all the fish names for Tau vehicles were human reporting names made up by some group of fish-obsessed xenologists and may have nothing to do with the Tau name for the thing, that may have fallen by the wayside, though.

Evolution is such a slow process and specific to the millions of environments of the imperium you chat really see it in the context of the setting. But it’s an inevitable part of life unless the use genetic engineering to breed all of humanity.

Andykp wrote:
Evolution is such a slow process and specific to the millions of environments of the imperium you chat really see it in the context of the setting. But it’s an inevitable part of life unless the use genetic engineering to breed all of humanity.

Evolution through natural selection is a slow process. Once you add outside factors you can speed things up greatly. I guess it would be more like selective breeding at that point.

Morgasm the Powerfull wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
As an aside, humanity itself is evolving in 40K, but the entirety of the Imperium revolves around a static status quo, hence the “purge the mutant, shun the psycker” mentality (even though the Emperor was attempting to foster/control the psychic developments of mankind).

Perhaps I’m forgetting, but is there any allusions in the 40K literature that humanity itself was shaped by one of the older races? My lore knowledge is mostly from the original books, and I seem to recall they tried to pass humanity off as an unplanned accident that arose after the events of the War in Heaven. In that, the Old One planned the likes of the Ork & Eldar race, but humanity’s appearance was neither seeded by the Old Ones - and we sorta upset the cosmic balance they’d planned.

In the 3rd ed Necron 'dex an Eldar mentions that the creatures humans evolved from were meant to be just a part of Earths ecosystem, but in the absence of supervision evolved into us.

The Eldar also laments that while the Eldar didn't do anything to humanity, as back then they loathed to disturb what little life remained in the galaxy, there were others who didn't have such qualms.

Dunno how this fluff goes nowadays.

I started Eldar in 6th and I've never heard that sadly. I like the idea of races meddling in each others evolution while Eldar tut.