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Hi all,

I am thinking about making an Imperial Fists army, since they've just released the IF Supremacy Force boxed set and I really like the colour scheme, I was wondering if anyone had any good 1.5K lists for me to look at? Last time I played 40K was back in 3rd edition (so a long time ago!). Back then I played Biel-tan and CSM (Khorne), I did like the idea of Space Wolves but I didn't really like the SM riding wolves... that's WHFB for me!

Also if there are any good BA lists for social play, I would be interested as i've always had a soft spot for them?

I think my local GW plays 1500-2000point games

First of all you should wait for CA, which should be released in two weeks, which has point adjustments for some units in the game.

First of all, welcome to Dakka and to the hobby.

Well, for starting are and SM marine army this boxes are damm good. A good save. About the IF box you would have two 5 man squads of intercessor, a 5 man squad of Hellblasters, a squad agressors, a captain and a Redmptor Dreadnought. A good value save witch also includes the upgrade kit for IF.

With this you could fit a small army with 1 HQ, 2 troop, 2 elite and one Heavy. You only need one more HQ and another troop unit and you could have a Battalion.

But, the other SM box is a bigger save. But different units.

I don't know how much time this boxes will be available and if you can wait till CA. But it is a good money save and it gives you a good start. We know Primaris will be the future and here you would have some unit for a good orice. Good start I think.

Personally I will not buy it only because I have a Primaris Captain, I have agressor but not play with them, I have reivers but only use them in Kill Team. Only would be interested in the Dreadnought and the Hellblasters and also the intercessor.

I would say you go ahead for them.

There are as many marine lists as there are players, more probably. If you are playing at the casual FLGS level, you should not be looking for a list from the ‘net, but building one that you would enjoy.

The basics of 40k list building have not changed much over the years. Make sure you have the right kinds of guns to deal with assorted threats (hordes, marine equivalent, vehicles and monsters) and a way to get boots onto objective to score them when needed.

Marines are very flexible. You can gear one units a variety of ways, so it can fill different roles, and many units can cover these roles. While some units are more effective and efficient then others, none are so bad that you just loose for taking them. At least at the casual FLGS level. You want to play top-tables at tournaments, or have a very aggressive FLGS, disregard this advice.

So what do you want? What calls out to you about marines? Pick 2-3 things and figure out what roles they fill. Then add units to cover the gaps in your army that they don’t deal with.

Some pointers about 8th:
Aura buffs and synergies are very important. Keep those in mind. It can be worth having a captain hanging out with your gunline to let the devs re-roll 1’s rather then just charging forward to stab things.
Screening. Vehicles can’t just back up and fire anymore. Keeping units at arm’s length can be critical. Also, most Deep Strike needs to be 9” away from enemy units, so a little stick of scouts set up correctly can buy the rest of your army a lot of breathing room.
Stratagems: There are a lot of tricks to be had here, but some you need to build for. You might not normally include a ML or HB in a squad, but the ability to spend a command point to dish out some mortal wounds can make them worth including.

That's just it, I don't really know how aggressive the meta is in my LGS as I haven't played for so long. So I wanted some guidance on what works with SM/IF?

If left up to my own devices I really like allot of the SM tanks, i'm a big fan of the Vindicator model and the Land Raider. I also like the new Primaris Models.

In terms of style I like gun lines/death balls and also melee tactics.

Well, we should be getting the new Chapter Approved in a week or two, so there might be price changes which throw everything out of wack. I would go down to the FLGS and chat with the regulars and see what’s up before committing heavily. Or just paint what you enjoy and try to find like minded people to play at your level.

If you like tanks, Razorbacks and Preds are decent. Vindis and LRs remain a bit overpriced for what they bring, but are OK in more casual environments. Park them near a captain and maybe a lieutenant for re-rolls, and watch the pain go downrange.

Intercessors are not bad, but suffer against multi-damage weapons. Pretty rugged vs. small arms though.
Hellblasters pack a serious punch, but are on the fragile side. One trick is to keep them near an ancient and an apothecary. Oh look, he killed himself overcharging! Take another shot with the banner before you go down. Then the medic gets him back on his feet. With the captain re-rolls, overcharging is reasonably safe, and very killy.

Death Stars are hard to manage in 8th. One thing that made them happen in previous editions was overlapping rules all on one unit. Less of that. Closest we get is stacking auras and buffs

Melee is not really our strong point. You can get up a captain to smash things, and vanguard are ok. If you want to bring in allies, there are other options.

You said you like Imp Fists first...

Then BA

Then SW


First of all i suggest you really think which codex you prefer, and then start thinking about lists from there.

 Nevelon wrote:
Well, we should be getting the new Chapter Approved in a week or two, so there might be price changes which throw everything out of wack. I would go down to the FLGS and chat with the regulars and see what’s up before committing heavily. Or just paint what you enjoy and try to find like minded people to play at your level.

If you like tanks, Razorbacks and Preds are decent. Vindis and LRs remain a bit overpriced for what they bring, but are OK in more casual environments. Park them near a captain and maybe a lieutenant for re-rolls, and watch the pain go downrange.

Intercessors are not bad, but suffer against multi-damage weapons. Pretty rugged vs. small arms though.
Hellblasters pack a serious punch, but are on the fragile side. One trick is to keep them near an ancient and an apothecary. Oh look, he killed himself overcharging! Take another shot with the banner before you go down. Then the medic gets him back on his feet. With the captain re-rolls, overcharging is reasonably safe, and very killy.

Death Stars are hard to manage in 8th. One thing that made them happen in previous editions was overlapping rules all on one unit. Less of that. Closest we get is stacking auras and buffs

Melee is not really our strong point. You can get up a captain to smash things, and vanguard are ok. If you want to bring in allies, there are other options.

I just read about the Kill Shot strat for Predator tanks, what would be the best way of making sure they survive the first turn if I didn't get to go first?

I like the Hell-blaster trick!

Kitsan wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Well, we should be getting the new Chapter Approved in a week or two, so there might be price changes which throw everything out of wack. I would go down to the FLGS and chat with the regulars and see what’s up before committing heavily. Or just paint what you enjoy and try to find like minded people to play at your level.

If you like tanks, Razorbacks and Preds are decent. Vindis and LRs remain a bit overpriced for what they bring, but are OK in more casual environments. Park them near a captain and maybe a lieutenant for re-rolls, and watch the pain go downrange.

Intercessors are not bad, but suffer against multi-damage weapons. Pretty rugged vs. small arms though.
Hellblasters pack a serious punch, but are on the fragile side. One trick is to keep them near an ancient and an apothecary. Oh look, he killed himself overcharging! Take another shot with the banner before you go down. Then the medic gets him back on his feet. With the captain re-rolls, overcharging is reasonably safe, and very killy.

Death Stars are hard to manage in 8th. One thing that made them happen in previous editions was overlapping rules all on one unit. Less of that. Closest we get is stacking auras and buffs

Melee is not really our strong point. You can get up a captain to smash things, and vanguard are ok. If you want to bring in allies, there are other options.

I just read about the Kill Shot strat for Predator tanks, what would be the best way of making sure they survive the first turn if I didn't get to go first?


I like the Hell-blaster trick!

Pray

Well, really never played with 3 tanks. Hide them could be an option, but still not sabe them at all. Probably once your rival knows that you have 3 Pred for Kill Shot, if you don't go first he will try to destroy one.

Pray is also a good option or at less hope that they survive. Know afther the FAQ2 you have the strat for give them cover if you are not first, this could also help.

Alex_85 wrote:


Pray

Well, really never played with 3 tanks. Hide them could be an option, but still not sabe them at all. Probably once your rival knows that you have 3 Pred for Kill Shot, if you don't go first he will try to destroy one.

Pray is also a good option or at less hope that they survive. Know afther the FAQ2 you have the strat for give them cover if you are not first, this could also help.

I tried, but never was I able to pull it off, there is always something not working: when you go second you won't have 3 predators, not even if you bring 4 (because there are still knights and people tend to have answers to armour, at least in my local area). Anyways, if you really want to do it, then use it on an auto cannon or on the Baal predators with a lot of shots, it will make a disaster if you win the dice roll.

Does the stratagem to get cover also work on vehicles? I was under the impression it got corrected to exclude titanic and vehicles?

Some suggestions from my own experiences lately:

Scout squads work well for covering the area and the rules for scouts make them great for moving ahead.
Bolters and heavy bolter work well with them.
Cost efficiency is reasonable as well.

Assault cannons I have found consistently useful.
Razorbacks (do not forget the storm bolter!!!) or on various aircraft is helpful (correction, dual assault cannons...).

Really get a handle on the Captain / lieutenant HQ's and their auras.
+1 on hit rolls (saves you on "gets hot") and +1 to wound are all very valuable.
Now, with jetpack or bike?
Look at warlord traits and the various gear that make these guys shine.

Whirlwind: do not need to see the enemy to kill them.
Fairly cheap and irritating.

A dakka predator especially it's special AC is good utility, the heavy bolters keep it cheap and does good work.

I have never regretted fielding my 3 HB attack bikes.
They have always done well for me.

Venerable dreadnoughts.
Look at their stats.
Double AC (Dakka-Dread) or the las/missile combo tends to pay for itself with a little work.

Oddly, Rhinos do OK and are great to feed into a horde while your guys try to get some distance.
2 Storm bolters also make some reasonable shooting support on the cheap.

Command points and how to use them is a study of it's own.
I have been fielding my Thunderfire cannon in order to slow the advancing Ork hordes, certain units get a bit more versatility with those stratagems.

Hope you have fun whatever you choose.

Awesome, thanks for that overview, very helpful!

RE the Venerable dreadnought, is it possible to build the kit with a normal Sarcophagus (without the marine head)?
Also, is the Dakka Dread a forgeworld kit?

Kitsan wrote:
Awesome, thanks for that overview, very helpful!

RE the Venerable dreadnought, is it possible to build the kit with a normal Sarcophagus (without the marine head)?
Also, is the Dakka Dread a forgeworld kit?

The Ven dread kit can be built with normal sarcophagus. Even has a few options.

This is the first one I built (the MM is the only thing not included in the box)

And all the leftover bits:



I made twin autocannon arms out of the aegis defense line quad gun. Depending on access to bits and you skill you might be able to make your own. There is a left arm ML is the basic dread kit. But many of the dread options are FW only.

The Ven dread kit gives you extra arms to play with. My last one I cobbed together a ML, but that dug deep into my bits box for most of the weapon bits. Nice to have the shoulder to start from though.

Kitsan wrote:
RE the Venerable dreadnought, is it possible to build the kit with a normal Sarcophagus (without the marine head)?
Also, is the Dakka Dread a forgeworld kit?

Nevelon has it all correct.

The venerable kit has all kinds of parts and really you can fancy up a normal dread all you like to count as.
I agree the aegis defense line is the easiest means to make the arms.
Some creative styrene tubing or left over bits from Hydra/Wyvern kit or AM/IG heavy weapon bits could all work.

The dakka dread rules would be used from the Space Marine Index.

Imperial armour has the mortis (dakka) dread rules my friend

PS -listen to Nev, boy knows his stuff

GamerGuy

How about giving the scouts sniper rifles and cloaks, makes them more durable as a screen and good for picking off enemy characters?

Or is it a waste?

Dont start a SM army when they are replacing all the marine models. If you dont want obsolete models, you have to go all primaris, which is a very bad army atm.

I find cloaks are a bit pricy for what you get. Sure they help, but at 3ppm on an inexpensive guy, I’d rather just have more boots on the ground.

Snipers can be fun, especially parked near a Lt. to fish for 6s on your wound rolls. Again, a little pricy, but they work for backfield camping.

If you want to use them as a screen, go naked with the 0 cost options. There is a reasonable chance the place you need to be to screen more valuable units is not going to be in cover. and even if you are, you job is mostly to take up space. 55 points is a lot better for a speed bump than 90.

As a dedicated backfield camper unit, it can be worth investing, but not for screening units

The picking off characters is a neat concept, but harder in practice. 5 guys shoot, half wound (probably no MW), they get a save. You might be doing ~1 wound a round to a character, and could be less depending. Buffs and luck can change this. Good for plinking off that last wound with a bit of luck, but unless you are sniping en mass, it’s not the Boom! Headshot! you’d like to see.

I field scouts both ways, and enjoy doing so. They generally do what I need them to do. The fine details of mathhammer and efficiency are more relevant if you are trying to squeeze the last ounce of power out of your list. In casual settings, have at it!