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Hello! I'm looking for advice, returning to the hobby, for a 1000pts space marines list. So here we go:

Bataillon Detachement, Spaces Marines


HQ

Captain
Primaris Librarian


TROOPS

3 squads of tactical marines, 3 sergents with bombs, two of them with plasma

ELITE

a Dreadnought with assault cannon and autocannon

HEAVY SUPPORT

a devastator squad, cherub, 2 lascannons, 2 missiles launchers, sergent with plasma

Vanguard Detachement of Officio Assassinorum

ELITE

a Culexus
2 Vindicare



a few remarks on what i'm looking for:

- I built this list with a jack of all trades doctrine in mind, having an army capable of responding to more than one threat.
- I'm clearly not trying to go for a competitive play level, just something that can work for a saturday friendly game
- I can see two defaults with this list: lack of melee options and no transports

- transports is a deliberate choice, I don't like the models

- Melee was due to point retriction, I was hesitant with scratching the dread (which is there for anti infantery coverfire) for a group of vanguards or even termies if i could find the points

-Also, there is a gamble with the assassins' squad going on, they're pretty expensive for this point value but i'm really digging what they bring to the table...

what do you guys think? I'd love to hear your feadback on this

Hi welcome to the hobby!

I too really don't like Rhinos, but in this edition with the wounds instead of AV they are a LITTLE more durable.

So critique...

3 Squads of tac marines. How big are the squads?
Plus I think you should consider cutting the tac squad which has no equipment and taking a Scout Squad instead.

In this edition they work to screen other squads as your opponent HAS to target the closest enemy unit unless they have a special rule that allows targeting of units further
away.

Your Dev Squad sergeant doesn't need Plasma Pistol as his squad should be well away from any enemy unit and firing at max range. Mix of lascannons and missiles is good.

Assassins......love vindicares. Culexus is good for anti-pskyer so good.

Your HQ: What wargear are they taking? and what Warlord Trait / Relic is Captain taking?

My advice would be Iron Resolve trait on captain and give your Librarian the Shield Eternal (3+ Inv save and all damage taken is halved)

What is the battle plan? Standing there and shoot at the enemy?

I don't really like melta bombs and I run my 5 men Tac squad with Plasma and Combi Plasma, so you want a captain next to them (or your Dread with the stratagem) and bring them in rapid fire range. If you are playing against a shooty army you need to close the gap, rhinos (razorback is a superior option imo) help you do that.
I would throw a Heavy Bolter in the devastator squad and get some ablative wounds to protect your gunners. With the HB you can use the stratagem AND the cherub for 2d3 mortal wounds on two 2+ (rerolling one potentially).

The libriarian could help your dread survive with the power +1T against STR 7 or 8 weaponry. Beside that I don't know.
Maybe a Lieutenant could be a more useful choice?

What Chapter tactics are you running?

Ok how about this:

Ultramarines chapter tactics (fire after falling back)

bATTALION DETAHCMENT (5 CP)

HQ

Captain
Combi-Flamer
Relic Blade
The Armour Indomitus (2+ armour save)
106

Primaris Librarian
Warlord (Iron Resolve +1 wound regain wound on 6+)
Force Sword
Might of Heroes (+1 Str to model within bubble)
Null Zone (no inv saves on targeted unit)

TROOPS

Scout Squad (5 man)
Sgt w/ Boltgun & Chainsword
1 Scout w/ Heavy Bolter (for Hellfire shells)
3 Scouts with Boltguns
65

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Sgt w/ Melta Bombs, Boltgun & Chainsword
3 Marines w/ Boltguns
1 Marine w/ Plasma Gun
83

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Sgt w/ Melta Bombs, Boltgun & Chainsword
3 Marines w/ Boltguns
1 Marine w/ Plasma Gun
83

ELITES

Dreadnought
Assault Cannon
Autocannon
125

HEAVY SUPPORT

Devastator Squad (5 man)
Cherub
Sgt w/ Boltgun & Chainsword
2 Missile Launchers
2 Lascannons
170

VANGUARD DETACHMENT

Vindicare
90

Vindicare 90

Culexus
85

998 Points

All sgts have extra attack in melee due to chainsword

Librarian is Warlord and has 6 wounds. surround him with the tacticals and he can't be targeted. he can make any sergeant or the captain stronger and deny enemy inv saves.

Captain is a tank with that 2+ armour save.


It's not going to destroy all comers but it is going to be fun to play. If you're going to take it to the next level then i'm afraid transports are needed

3 Squads of tac marines. How big are the squads?

All squad are stock concerning manpower, so 4 marines and a sergeant each

Your Dev Squad sergeant doesn't need Plasma Pistol as his squad should be well away from any enemy unit and firing at max range

I should have specify, it's not the plasma pistol, but the combi plasma. I hear you though, it's still half the firing range of the other weapons

What wargear are they taking? and what Warlord Trait / Relic is Captain taking?

With the list above, captain was with a master crafter boltgun and a power sword, has I was already at 999/1000

Traitwise, I thought about Storm of fire, and keeping him close to the devastators for maximum potential, you think Iron resolve works better?

Concerning the librarian, stock equipment (as if i recall correctly, primaris don't have options for changing weapons)

In this edition they work to screen other squads as your opponent HAS to target the closest enemy unit unless they have a special rule that allows targeting of units further
away.

As I was thinking it, that was one of the goals of the culexus, with his hit malus rules, and as I need to bring him close. So having the culexus on the frontline to serve as a hard to hit target and protect my marines. Should I double that and have some cover for my cover?

If so, the idea would be to take as much stock scouts as possible I presume?

What is the battle plan? Standing there and shoot at the enemy?

Pretty much. Devastator and vindicare hanging back for sniping important targets, tacticals marines for hunkering down on mid table objectives with the dreadnought coverfire. Culexus in front as a distraction carnifex/to be in range of the enemy psykers if need be.

(I played an all melee tyranid during 7th Tau meta, so I confess that I build this list still scared by firing lines and in the prospect of shooting back at things before CQC)

Name of the game as i was picturing it was "find a firing position and take cover"

don't really like melta bombs and I run my 5 men Tac squad with Plasma and Combi Plasma

Melta were for self defense against vehicules, but now that you point it out, I don't think anyone will assault my positions with vehicules when they know i bring them.

I would throw a Heavy Bolter in the devastator squad and get some ablative wounds to protect your gunners

So, you're saying that i need to replace one weapons with a HB, or that I need to bring one more marine with a HB?

The libriarian could help your dread survive with the power +1T against STR 7 or 8 weaponry. Beside that I don't know

Librarian is (beside the model that looks awesome) for not being naked in psy phase, and in case I'm in front of a big scary thing, to cast null zone for a focus fire round in order to bring said thing down. Having said that, I'm not sure i'll encounter Primarchs and the like at that point level.

Lieutenant is indeed something I was considering, should I scrap the librarian for one?

What Chapter tactics are you running?

I'll paint them as blood ravens, as I really like the color scheme. But I don't think they have a proper ruleset, so I'll play them as Salamanders, for helping my devastators. Downside of this is that I put A LOT of eggs in my devastator basket, loosing them will hurt.


Concerning transports now:

If you are playing against a shooty army you need to close the gap, rhinos (razorback is a superior option imo) help you do that.

I thought that, with all the support fire I bring, I would be abble to go toe to toe with a shooty army at range, But you're saying I still have to close the gap for rapid fire? that changes things...

let's say transports are indeed mandatory and I find room for some, What should be the plan? 3 transports for all my tac squads? 2 transports and a scout squad for meatshield? or just one plasma marines with a razorback for a rapid fire skirmish?

also at 87pts a model, I'll need to scrap the dread to make room. In doing so, how would bringing another bataillon of cheap guardsmen for said meatshield do compared to a mechanized all SM unit?


Thanks for the feedback guys!

OK let's go through this!

I figured 5 man squads of tacs.

Combi-Plasma is a waste of points. just go for the free boltgun.

Storm Of Fire ......Iron Resolve. It's up to you. Personally i'd put the Captain with the Tactical and have them rerolling all the 1s, instead of keeping him back and bascially useless. He's a Space Marine Captain after all. USE HIM!

Melta Bombs are no longers so great as you can use weight of fire to plink off wounds from vehicles. Boltguns are now AP-1 so they will do the job on most things! and you have krak grenades. but take the meltas if you want.

Replace one scout with a Heavy Bolter scout so you keep 5 man. otherwise you're going to need to buy 2 scout squads, and keeping prices down on this list.

You don't need to scrap librarian. Try him out in a few games see how he does. Then decide

I love Salamanders. The whole reroll a failed hit or wound is awesome.

You still need to close to 12" for rapid fire.

2 Transports and a scout squads FTW IMO.


If you're going soup go all out. Otherwise stick to Marines.

WHEN IN DOUBT KEEP IT SIMPLE

Great, I'll try like that thanks!

Just a question, what do you mean by "soup"?

Soup is where you have units from different codexes combined in one army.

For example IG and Space Marines together, or different chapters (in detachments) in one list.

Another point in favor of the Razorback could be that the enemy would not be able to shoot all of his/her AV weapons at the dreadnoughts (I mean, they still can but transports tend to be focused first in my experience).

About the devastator. If they are the source of your firepower I would do more to protect them and the easier way to it (beside turning the librarian into tigurius) is to add "naked" marines to act as "acceptable casualties". I would then swap a ML for a HB in order to have access to one of the few good SM stratagems. You could also put the HB in a scout squad but it is a trade of 3+ for a 4+ to hit and in a 1000 points game I don't think you will need that much AV power.

The combi-plasma on the sergeant is mandatory for me, I feel like a single plasma gun is not that threatening but if you manage to bring the squad into rapid fire range your enemy will be suddenly be faced with 4 S8/AP-3/2D weapons (scions of guilliman is really helpful in this scenario). I have never tried meltabombs, since it is way better to shoot with my plasmaguns.


As an Ultramarines player myself, I find the Sanctic Halo a far superior choice to the armor indomitus on a captain. It will give you some anti-psychers punch too.

Maybe dropping one assassin to try to make room for a razorback and upgrades on units?

Absolutely agree about Tigurius. The - 1 to hit he can give is a nice option for survive. Las game I did my Hellblasters really hard for my rival. Being in ruins or being under the hability of Tigu or both. It is not the same 3+ than 4 or 5. Also he can deny 2 times and knows 3 powers being be able to cast 2 of them. Only must be carefully protected.

HB is mandatory. MW are very important and more in small games. I am also huge fan of Venerable Dreadnought for a BS 2+ combined with Wisdom of the Ancient gives a very strong firing.

Corennus -Dude with all due respect, I wholeheartedly disagree with your stance on the combi-plasma, and find myself questioning what youre smoking, and where one might acquire some.

the ability to give a scoring unit 2 S7 shots, 4 in rapidfire range, with S8 and D2 available when required is invaluable in maintaining a flexible battleline able to adapt to different battlefield roles. the sheer versatility of the plasma gun's profile makes it one of the golden weapons in the space marine codex. with splitfire, units can now support one another, focussing their plasma weaponry on light tanks and heavy infantry, while using their bolters to clear chaff. 3 squads taking the midfield have performed time and time again for me in everything short of tournament settings.

each to their own, hmu with where you got that
GamerGuy

 Corennus wrote:
Hi welcome to the hobby!

I too really don't like Rhinos, but in this edition with the wounds instead of AV they are a LITTLE more durable.

So critique...

3 Squads of tac marines. How big are the squads?
Plus I think you should consider cutting the tac squad which has no equipment and taking a Scout Squad instead.

In this edition they work to screen other squads as your opponent HAS to target the closest enemy unit unless they have a special rule that allows targeting of units further
away.

Your Dev Squad sergeant doesn't need Plasma Pistol as his squad should be well away from any enemy unit and firing at max range. Mix of lascannons and missiles is good.

Assassins......love vindicares. Culexus is good for anti-pskyer so good.

Your HQ: What wargear are they taking? and what Warlord Trait / Relic is Captain taking?

My advice would be Iron Resolve trait on captain and give your Librarian the Shield Eternal (3+ Inv save and all damage taken is halved)

you don't have to target the closest unit. You can't target a character if there is another non-character unit closer, otherwise you can shoot unhindered.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GamerGuy wrote:
Corennus -Dude with all due respect, I wholeheartedly disagree with your stance on the combi-plasma, and find myself questioning what youre smoking, and where one might acquire some.

the ability to give a scoring unit 2 S7 shots, 4 in rapidfire range, with S8 and D2 available when required is invaluable in maintaining a flexible battleline able to adapt to different battlefield roles. the sheer versatility of the plasma gun's profile makes it one of the golden weapons in the space marine codex. with splitfire, units can now support one another, focussing their plasma weaponry on light tanks and heavy infantry, while using their bolters to clear chaff. 3 squads taking the midfield have performed time and time again for me in everything short of tournament settings.

each to their own, hmu with where you got that
GamerGuy

They are a waste of points, you want to keep your tactical squads cheap and mobile. You don't get 4 shots in rapid with a combi plas. You get two plas shots, and two bolter shots and both profiles take a minus 1 to hit. basically if you're having tactical squads shoot at Armor, you're doing it very, very wrong.

They don't lose any mobility friend; but if you're gonna pay out for a plasma gun on the squad you're an idiot not to follow up and grab a second plasmagun on the sgt so that they can actually engage a threat worthy of plasmagun fire...

Tactical squads can engage armour just fine, they want to claim the midfield, and when you've got dreadnoughts/sentinels bearing down on your gunline of hellblasters/devastators, a tactical squad with dual plasma, supported by a second or 3rd in similar range can surprise an opponent with S8 & D2. It's not so much that it boosts the individual unit enough to be amazing value for points, its that the upgrade stacks well, and tactical squads want to be moving in support of one another anyway, interlocking, roman army styles.


while on paper they seem fragile, I'll have you know that the battleline performs just fine against lines of imperial guard, orks, nids, necrons… it's been my standard loadout since the dawn of 8th and my boys in blue give an account of themselves every game... they're only gotta kill a dreadnought/ light tank and one or two chaff units to pay for themselves and if they score objective points thats invaluable anyway. they're brilliant area denial, and people like you underestimating the dual plasma loadout are exactly why it works...seriously give it a go man, I was doubtful myself at first. you want to use scary stuff in your backline to draw the heavier firepower away from the rank and file; Leviathan Dreadnought/s, 10 strong Devastator squad, Deredeo, Chapter Master in support, Hellblasters/Guilliman... they watch as the enemy comes to you, dig into midfield terrain for +1 saves and just see what they accomplish for their 93pts a pop


GamerGuy

My $0.02 is that you don't have enough bodies. At 1000 points, you want to be able to take a punch, and this list feels like every lost tactical will hurt.

ah the good old days when combis were a one shot wonder.

Yes I humbly submit than now Combi-Weapons are awesome and therefore yes Combi-Plasma is viable

In response to Fisheyes:

Unless you're going for a pure scout force with 10 man squads to the max you will never be able to "take a punch" with marines IMO. That's why they are specialists....

Good use of LOS blocking and cover and the ablity to throw out a lot of hurt is what 1000 points lists for marines should focus on.

Corennus -It takes a big person to admit an error like that, and such displays are rare on the internet, I'd like to thank you for that.

-Back to the list at hand: Yeah the body count is fairly low... but as stated above, unless you're spamming scouts you're not gonna be bringing enough bodies to make casualties seem irrelevant. tacticals shine when faced with enemy light infantry... if your opponent is putting their big guns on your troops something has gone badly wrong for you.


to mitigate this issue however, I like a large devastator squad in my backfield. deep-strike denial is important, and the ablative wound marines soak damage that would otherwise be killing expensive heavy weapons troopers...

The dread from the suggested build submitted by Corennus is good value too imho, and more than capable of dealing with armour faced at 1kpts, with the devs supporting on bigger problems...

Honest my biggest worry is that you've got just shy of a third of your list tied up in 3 assassins... re-allocate those points friend

GamerGuy