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From https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/02/pre-order-preview-vigilus-defiant-and-chapter-approved/

Seems interesting. Probably better if you see buildings often. I like the idea of getting some high RoF guns and fishing for mortal wounds against vehicles.

Formations is back, awsome!

Yup, as I said in the rumours thread it's going to be a Wrath of Mars in light. Should be pretty nice to counter vehicles with invulnerable saves.

And I love the flavour behind the formation, it may be a good sign for more personnality to Chapter tactics and equivalents for other armies.

Not wanting to sound like a negative Nancy, but who wants to guess that the Ultramarine one will be the best one, practically negating any incentive to take the other ones?

If this is the average level of the formations, i applaude GW for it. Now i have to wait for the book that will give formations to my bugs.

I won't lie I expected formations to be "space marines", "orks", "eldar", and such

Don't get your hopes up, unless you are talking GCS of bugs. According to the rumors from Vigilus Day, there are only formations for the forces at Vigilus. No Tyranids, just Genestealer Cults.

 bullyboy wrote:
Not wanting to sound like a negative Nancy, but who wants to guess that the Ultramarine one will be the best one, practically negating any incentive to take the other ones?

Unless there are "general" formations I'm guessing the UM one is gonna be that Intercessor veteran formation they talked about initially

Can anyone actually READ the blamed thing? Maybe my screen is wonky, but I cannot.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Can anyone actually READ the blamed thing? Maybe my screen is wonky, but I cannot.

The resolution isn't great, there's a bit of blur to it. But I can read it yes. The italicized text is harder, but that's flavour text anyway.

Yes I doubt there'll be one for each chapter yet, but most probably for the factions on Vigilus as said before. That means Space Marines, Chaos, Astra Militarum, Adeptus Mechanicus, Death Guard, GSC, Orks and maybe some others I don't recall.

So I guess they'll each have a Formation not chapter-restricted, and some others for chapters. Was the Blitz Brigade one Klan-specific ?

Nah, they gotta have them all chapter restricted, that way Iron hands don't get any.


Jokes aside, I am slightly worried about GW's ability to balance these, and aint a huge fan of them being chapter restricted. Why cant an Ultramarines succesor have a 'siege breaker cohort'?

 Aaranis wrote:
...Astra Militarum...

Let's just hope that something really annoying like "catachan sentinels only" doesn't happen. Wouldn't be great to have your Valhallan russes unable to use a formation because it was Cadian only.

This will be decent if Centurion Devs get dropped from 80 to like 40 pts.

Do we have any idea of the full list of chapters/factions involved in vigilus? Who else can we expect formations for?

 Trickstick wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
...Astra Militarum...

Let's just hope that something really annoying like "catachan sentinels only" doesn't happen. Wouldn't be great to have your Valhallan russes unable to use a formation because it was Cadian only.

I’m pretty sure there was one confirmed for Militarum Tempestus as well.

 Apple Peel wrote:
I’m pretty sure there was one confirmed for Militarum Tempestus as well.

Well they are at least a separate thing. I often have a battalion/patrol of tempestus in my lists, so could be useful. I would love just 1" extra range on the hotshots...

If Centurions get an actual proper buff, I can see Eye Of Hypnoth castles doing good work.

The main question is how does this work with Successor Chapters?

 Aaranis wrote:
Yes I doubt there'll be one for each chapter yet, but most probably for the factions on Vigilus as said before. That means Space Marines, Chaos, Astra Militarum, Adeptus Mechanicus, Death Guard, GSC, Orks and maybe some others I don't recall.

So I guess they'll each have a Formation not chapter-restricted, and some others for chapters. Was the Blitz Brigade one Klan-specific ?

Sisters are there too.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
If Centurions get an actual proper buff, I can see Eye Of Hypnoth castles doing good work.

The main question is how does this work with Successor Chapters?

Don't successor chapters just use the key word you want? So use Imperial Fist keywords on your random chapter. I guess Black Templars are different but all the others would be fine.

ERJAK wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
Yes I doubt there'll be one for each chapter yet, but most probably for the factions on Vigilus as said before. That means Space Marines, Chaos, Astra Militarum, Adeptus Mechanicus, Death Guard, GSC, Orks and maybe some others I don't recall.

So I guess they'll each have a Formation not chapter-restricted, and some others for chapters. Was the Blitz Brigade one Klan-specific ?

Sisters are there too.

You would hope that unlike Shield of Baal wheere they stared they actually get some rules this time.... Maybe some hope with the Beta Codex coming out.

 Mr Morden wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
Yes I doubt there'll be one for each chapter yet, but most probably for the factions on Vigilus as said before. That means Space Marines, Chaos, Astra Militarum, Adeptus Mechanicus, Death Guard, GSC, Orks and maybe some others I don't recall.

So I guess they'll each have a Formation not chapter-restricted, and some others for chapters. Was the Blitz Brigade one Klan-specific ?

Sisters are there too.

You would hope that unlike Shield of Baal wheere they stared they actually get some rules this time.... Maybe some hope with the Beta Codex coming out.

It's free cross promotion money.

 Trickstick wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
If Centurions get an actual proper buff, I can see Eye Of Hypnoth castles doing good work.

The main question is how does this work with Successor Chapters?

Don't successor chapters just use the key word you want? So use Imperial Fist keywords on your random chapter. I guess Black Templars are different but all the others would be fine.

If we are being technical i think they only get the doctrine not the keywords (at least that’s what happens to custom regiments in the guard) so you couldn’t do this if that’s the case

Kaneda88 wrote:
If we are being technical i think they only get the doctrine not the keywords (at least that’s what happens to custom regiments in the guard) so you couldn’t do this if that’s the case

Eh, I know that may be technically correct but there is no real reason to follow the rule. For example:

"These are my Tvashtan guardsmen using Tallarn doctrine and that Tallarn formation thing."

"Wait, you don't get the Tallarn keyword so can't use it!"

"Oh, sorry, I think I misspoke. These are my Tallarn Guardsmen. They just spelled all of their banners wrong."

Called it, formations are back, different name but same thing, mixed feeling I have.

Kaneda88 wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
If Centurions get an actual proper buff, I can see Eye Of Hypnoth castles doing good work.

The main question is how does this work with Successor Chapters?

Don't successor chapters just use the key word you want? So use Imperial Fist keywords on your random chapter. I guess Black Templars are different but all the others would be fine.

If we are being technical i think they only get the doctrine not the keywords (at least that’s what happens to custom regiments in the guard) so you couldn’t do this if that’s the case

This is correct.

There's two ways to run successors:

1. Official
This is the method printed in the codex. You replace CHAPTER with the chapter of your choice, and choose the Chapter Tactic of the parent or the one you feel best represents the Chapter if the parent is not clear.

2. Counts As
You actually run the Chapter for all rules purposes as the parent Chapter, but you call them something different and paint them whatever.

Generally speaking it's better to run them as the second option, because you don't lose out on Special Characters and other similar things. However if your Successor chapter has their own specific things them you would need to use the first method so actually are that chapter.

So! If you run Crimson Fists using method 1 so you can take Pedro Kantor then you are NOT Imperial Fists so you can't use this formation. If you use method 2 then for rules purposes you are Imperial Fists so you can use the formation, but you aren't technically Crimson Fists so no Pedro Kantor.

You can't have it both ways basically!

What is the most dakka-dread for the mortal wounds? Is it the storm cannon leviathan or does something have more shots?

 Trickstick wrote:

Kaneda88 wrote:
If we are being technical i think they only get the doctrine not the keywords (at least that’s what happens to custom regiments in the guard) so you couldn’t do this if that’s the case

Eh, I know that may be technically correct but there is no real reason to follow the rule. For example:

"These are my Tvashtan guardsmen using Tallarn doctrine and that Tallarn formation thing."

"Wait, you don't get the Tallarn keyword so can't use it!"

"Oh, sorry, I think I misspoke. These are my Tallarn Guardsmen. They just spelled all of their banners wrong."

That is true for the guard since custom regiments don’t get anything but as someone has already said space marine successor chapters some of them actually have things for them (i remember someone being found out using flesh tearers with their chapter master and a blood angels only relic in a tournament a while ago) so it would make sense that they don’t get it

Kaneda88 wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

Kaneda88 wrote:
If we are being technical i think they only get the doctrine not the keywords (at least that’s what happens to custom regiments in the guard) so you couldn’t do this if that’s the case

Eh, I know that may be technically correct but there is no real reason to follow the rule. For example:

"These are my Tvashtan guardsmen using Tallarn doctrine and that Tallarn formation thing."

"Wait, you don't get the Tallarn keyword so can't use it!"

"Oh, sorry, I think I misspoke. These are my Tallarn Guardsmen. They just spelled all of their banners wrong."

That is true for the guard since custom regiments don’t get anything but as someone has already said space marine successor chapters some of them actually have things for them (i remember someone being found out using flesh tearers with their chapter master and a blood angels only relic in a tournament a while ago) so it would make sense that they don’t get it

Don't even get me started on that. Such a silly restriction.

Formations 'lite" are back it seems. At least this time you need to CPs to pay to enjoy the special rules. Seems like a good balance.