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So we have two new books coming out at exactly the same time. CA, again, and this Vigilus campaign book. Now, if what people from the Vigilus weekend are to be believe, we know everything in the book can be used for any matched play game of 40k. Therefore, for what has been spoiled for Orks so far (some cool fluffy stuff (nothing game breaking but looks fun) and an awesome looking relic) I can't help but feel a little sour about all this... The book comes out basically a month after our codex comes out with a ton of stuff that I would have loved to have been in the base book. However, my marines came out over a year ago so any update at all for them is gladly welcomed. Plus, new campaign is always welcomed. So... I'm a little hit and miss about Vigilus.

Then, we have CA and I'll tell you... any update to the game at all (outside of new campaigns and missions) I feel extremely sour for paying for (I always did it begrudgingly before but with the modern day world having multiple table top companies doing it for free I just can't stand it anymore).

Again, I'm particular sour because i just forked out for the Ork codex and the new vehicles so I won't be getting the books as it's beyond my budget for this year. However, I know this isn't the case for everyone who haven't had an update in years... Nevertheless, I'm also getting more worried about the amount of books we might need to lug around (I love printed books and can't stick digital all that well). If I want to use all the resources available to Orks and be up to date on the rules I'll be carrying about 5 books minimum (not including FW books and the last CA).

So what are we all thinking, have our minds changed from last year or are we happy with both the two new books coming out?

My opinions clearly: I like the Vigilus book as expansions are always welcome but wish a few of the Ork rules were in the codex that only came out a few weeks ago. CA, I like the new missions, beta codex and narrative rules but hate the idea of paying for updates... I should have the option to buy the book or get a free pdf with all the points changes and base game rule changes... Right now GW's promise of free rules (which they clearly stated at the start of 8th edition) is out the window as the changes in CA invalidate the free pdf they handed out. XD

Yes, and no. Campaign books are an awesome thing, and something I've been saying for years that GW should do more of. But rules in campaign books should be for that campaign, not for regular play, so people only need to buy them if they actually want to play that campaign.

I’ll be getting Vigilus but after falling for CA last year I won’t make the same mistake again. I’m not paying for a beta codex I have no interest in and points adjustments that should be free.

only if those rules are optional and not needed for the core game system.

I really like CA, it's a necessary yearly update that fixes issues that "the expert play testers" miss out on in their extensive and rigorous testing. Personally, I'd prefer it if they gave us a PDF with the barebones updates but people would complain about that too because it wouldn't have enough pictures. It's a necessary book and it's something GW have needed to do for years.

As for Vigilus, I dislike the fact that they've made a campaign book that has matched play rules that will be picked up in tournament play, meaning another book has to be brought on top of the rulebook/codex/CA/FAQ.

Campaign books should be reserved for narrative and open play rule sets along with their specific stratagems and keep matched play rules to CA.

 insaniak wrote:
Yes, and no. Campaign books are an awesome thing, and something I've been saying for years that GW should do more of. But rules in campaign books should be for that campaign, not for regular play, so people only need to buy them if they actually want to play that campaign.

Sorry Insaniak, but I have to disagree with you a bit on this.

I'd rather the campaigns introduce new stuff into the game for a permanent basis. It helps add some variety to things while also allowing for the campaigns themselves to serve as a structure for those who want to use them.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Yes, and no. Campaign books are an awesome thing, and something I've been saying for years that GW should do more of. But rules in campaign books should be for that campaign, not for regular play, so people only need to buy them if they actually want to play that campaign.

Sorry Insaniak, but I have to disagree with you a bit on this.

I'd rather the campaigns introduce new stuff into the game for a permanent basis. It helps add some variety to things while also allowing for the campaigns themselves to serve as a structure for those who want to use them.

But I dislike how a weak unit in my codex can now be buffed by a book that has come out 4 weeks after the sed codex with the weak unit. (firstly, I know what I'm about to say isn't really the case but it's what it seems like) I can't help but feel units didn't get the buffs they were meant to have in my codex in hopes I'd buy this book to buff them.... this is exactly what game companies do with micro-transactions (Ie, make a gun weak but then charge you for an expansion that comes with stuff that buffs the guns).

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I’ll be getting Vigilus but after falling for CA last year I won’t make the same mistake again. I’m not paying for a beta codex I have no interest in and points adjustments that should be free.

Within a few days of the CA release there will be plenty of sites that have a summary of all the relevant point changes for your faction.

I am very happy with an annual Chapter Approved book, yes.

Once you actually get to the rules in the 8th edition moster of a book GW has really no excuse for not just having an up to date copy of just the game rules and points in CA.

Instead of a 2 year old book with FAQ's and erratas that render it close to useless anyway, you just pick up the highest issue of CA and this years FAQ's and done much simpler than the current system.

The vigilous book I'm.much less sold on, certain factions getting bonus rules while other factions get nothing grates a tad, while the book 1 formations look not ti bad, we haven't seen them stacked with the CA changes yet hopefully they aren't realy that great more nice to have than must use for competitive settings.

But it's still got me the oh GoD GW why feeling stirring, hopefully book 2 and 3 are just as tame but this is GW we are talking about.

I'm largely indifferent. For my own purposes, the only necessary books are the Rule Book, (for Battle Forged armies and terrain rules) and the Codex. As far as I'm concerned, everything else is an optional extra. If for some reason, my gaming group insists on using the new points adjustments, I have no problem chipping in a little to purchase a club copy, and if for some reason, even that feels like a cost I'm unwilling to pay, I have no real moral objection against committing a few copyright violations.

 Kanluwen wrote:

I'd rather the campaigns introduce new stuff into the game for a permanent basis. It helps add some variety to things while also allowing for the campaigns themselves to serve as a structure for those who want to use them.

Isn't adding variety to things what the campaign is for?

The core rules should be exactly that, and should be contained in the rulebook, not spread across multiple publications.

No, but having a more balanced game is better than condensing all the rules in a single book and playing a messed up game.

Too bad GW isn't aiming for balanced game so that argument loses water. We get both unbalanced game where GW does marketing changes all the time and have to buy new books.

tneva82 wrote:
Too bad GW isn't aiming for balanced game so that argument loses water. We get both unbalanced game where GW does marketing changes all the time and have to buy new books.

I think the main point of Chapter Approved is to aim for a more balanced game, at least in match play. I agree that it would be a lot more admirable if they produced the fruits of that labour free of charge, but for a company that's had an almost sea change in the last couple of years, I think even this effort is laudable. Remember when Games-Workshop didn't even bother with FAQs?

tneva82 wrote:
Too bad GW isn't aiming for balanced game so that argument loses water. We get both unbalanced game where GW does marketing changes all the time and have to buy new books.

A 100% balanced game? No, but the 100000000 FAQs and CA surely contributed to have a more balanced game. There's no need of buying CA, just make a photocopy of the things you need if you want it just for a few rules or points changes.

Depends. What are these new rules?
Will they aid one of my armies? +
Will they hinder one of my armies in some way? -
Will they fix any of the truly horrendous core rules (or lack there of) that I found upon returning to 8th? +
Will they hinder one of my opponents MORE than they hinder me? +

If GW cared about balance the codex would all be digital and recive a monthly update. XD

Extra stuff, that may help people with burn out or that adds some new build to an existing army is cool, specialy if it is not obligatory.

Being forced to buy a CA every year, is like paying for a patch update.

In a perfect world, we would at most NEED 2 books....

1 BRB.
1 Codex for your chosen faction

Books like an index, CA, and Generals Handbook need to be $15-$20 max. I'm already spending about $100 for just the BRB and Codex. Prices need to come down for all the supplements. Campaign books feel about right given what I am seeing, but it makes it a bit difficult when they have new rules that would be used outside of that campaign.

I think it depends. I like the concept that they can print updated sheets in a different book without having to reprint an entire Codex; this would be acceptable I think since the campaign book is sort of an update to certain factions. However the way they seem to be doing it is the opposite and simply adding more bloat.

Here is a radical idea. I think the chapter approved should have the core rules in it each year. They are only a few pages, but updated with all the new changes.

So the new CA would have the rules, but updated with the new patch rules like Rule of three, and single faction detachment, and character targeting.

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I’ll be getting Vigilus but after falling for CA last year I won’t make the same mistake again. I’m not paying for a beta codex I have no interest in and points adjustments that should be free.

Within a few days of the CA release there will be plenty of sites that have a summary of all the relevant point changes for your faction.

Exactly. This is why I won’t be purchasing this year. If there was content in the book I actually wanted I’d buy regardless. Last years CA was a waste really. Objective markers don’t exactly excite me and all the rules were available elsewhere for free.

As someone who hasn't played since 5th edition, the rules spread across multiple books is extremely confusing, and I just hope and pray that Battle Scribe is up to date on their points costs.

Why are people losing their minds over the cost of CA? It's a drop in the bucket for this hobby.

My main issue with people complaining about Chapter Approved...is that you don't need to own it. Saying so is being disingenous. Our local group (10-12 players) owns...two copies of CA? All you need is to snap a pic or jot some notes of the point changes. And it's 2018, you can absolutely find that information online.

You'll also note the one or two major rule changes, etc. But other than that it's a completely optional purchase. It contains "additional" content you can absolutely skip. Should GW post the points changes online for free? Sure. I think so, but I think people are all but lying when they state that they "have to" purchase Chapter Approved. No. You don't.

So, in answer to your main question - extra rules are always cool, as long as they'e optional/additional etc.

 lolman1c wrote:
If GW cared about balance the codex would all be digital and recive a monthly update. XD

I'm not sure if your joking, but this would be terrible. Monthly updates are exactly what I want GW to avoid... Because often things that are considered broken are just a new build that people need to learn how to deal with. You need to let things settle for a bit before acting otherwise you risk breaking the game further.


On the OPs topic, I do see why people are upset about chapter approved when most other game companies are going to free rules... I mean I also play infinity and they have an official army builder with all the rules and points... and each rule referenced on a sheet is hyperlinked to a wiki with the full rule... It's just so convenient. I'm not saying GW needs to go to the free rules route, but if a tiny little company like Corvus Bellis can do that, GW should have no issue providing that, even if they decide to lock it behind a paywall.

All that being said, I think the only issue I have, is I wish they would release just the point changes and new matched play rules in a small pdf with all the fluff stripped out of it, and charge a minimal fee if they want. Which would be good for people who just want the matched play rules. (note I'm more of a filthy narrative player so I would likely grab the full book, but i think a cheaper option for people who only care about the crunch should be available)

Flamephoenix182 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
If GW cared about balance the codex would all be digital and recive a monthly update. XD

I'm not sure if your joking, but this would be terrible. Monthly updates are exactly what I want GW to avoid... Because often things that are considered broken are just a new build that people need to learn how to deal with. You need to let things settle for a bit before acting otherwise you risk breaking the game further.


On the OPs topic, I do see why people are upset about chapter approved when most other game companies are going to free rules... I mean I also play infinity and they have an official army builder with all the rules and points... and each rule referenced on a sheet is hyperlinked to a wiki with the full rule... It's just so convenient. I'm not saying GW needs to go to the free rules route, but if a tiny little company like Corvus Bellis can do that, GW should have no issue providing that, even if they decide to lock it behind a paywall.

All that being said, I think the only issue I have, is I wish they would release just the point changes and new matched play rules in a small pdf with all the fluff stripped out of it, and charge a minimal fee if they want. Which would be good for people who just want the matched play rules. (note I'm more of a filthy narrative player so I would likely grab the full book, but i think a cheaper option for people who only care about the crunch should be available)

It's not broken if they actually had a group of unbiased testers. I mean I saw people claiming Orks were way too OP and needed huge nerfs the first day the codex came out... but hopefully GW would ignore them and the people who actually wrote the rules would not just listen blindly to what every they're being told.

In a word, No. I probably enjoyed 7th more than most but by the end, the number of books you needed for most armies was annoying. We are slowly getting back to that if not more so. To have the full rules for my main army, space marines, I need a codex, an index, the FW index, CA (CA 2.0 soon), FAQs and the BRB and soon campaign supplements. That's a lot of sources just to play the game.

 lolman1c wrote:
So we have two new books coming out at exactly the same time. CA, again, and this Vigilus campaign book. Now, if what people from the Vigilus weekend are to be believe, we know everything in the book can be used for any matched play game of 40k. Therefore, for what has been spoiled for Orks so far (some cool fluffy stuff (nothing game breaking but looks fun) and an awesome looking relic) I can't help but feel a little sour about all this... The book comes out basically a month after our codex comes out with a ton of stuff that I would have loved to have been in the base book. However, my marines came out over a year ago so any update at all for them is gladly welcomed. Plus, new campaign is always welcomed. So... I'm a little hit and miss about Vigilus.

Then, we have CA and I'll tell you... any update to the game at all (outside of new campaigns and missions) I feel extremely sour for paying for (I always did it begrudgingly before but with the modern day world having multiple table top companies doing it for free I just can't stand it anymore).

Again, I'm particular sour because i just forked out for the Ork codex and the new vehicles so I won't be getting the books as it's beyond my budget for this year. However, I know this isn't the case for everyone who haven't had an update in years... Nevertheless, I'm also getting more worried about the amount of books we might need to lug around (I love printed books and can't stick digital all that well). If I want to use all the resources available to Orks and be up to date on the rules I'll be carrying about 5 books minimum (not including FW books and the last CA).

So what are we all thinking, have our minds changed from last year or are we happy with both the two new books coming out?

My opinions clearly: I like the Vigilus book as expansions are always welcome but wish a few of the Ork rules were in the codex that only came out a few weeks ago. CA, I like the new missions, beta codex and narrative rules but hate the idea of paying for updates... I should have the option to buy the book or get a free pdf with all the points changes and base game rule changes... Right now GW's promise of free rules (which they clearly stated at the start of 8th edition) is out the window as the changes in CA invalidate the free pdf they handed out. XD

It's almost as if people forget Kinko's exists and that you don't really ever need to carry around any books if you use Battlescribe and some hard copies in a binder...