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Very unhappy that my go-to tourney list isn't "invalidated" by Chapter Approved, but the points increases to Cultists actually make it illegal. I have to totally redesign the list; can't just fudge number around by saving on upgrades or anything. Anyhow, I'd love to play a pure Black Legion army. I'm going to ask folks if they'd let me use the following revision to Black Legion Trait:

"When shooting, if you make a hit-roll of 6+, you may make an additional shot with the same weapon." and have it apply to all my units, rather than just Infantry, Bikes, and Helbrutes. Only applies if every model in the army (not just detachment) is Black Legion. What do you think?

That's something more fitting for a more shooty Legion.

Take a look at their rules from the last edition in the Legions book. They got Chosen AND Terminators as troops, Hatred (with it always on vs Space Marines), and they had the ability to take Marks on everything compared to the more restricted Legions.

With that being noted, what exactly would port over? I would personally give them the Goff ability of producing extra hits in melee on a 6 instead. Either that or create synergy where they can advance and charge and just take out Renegades altogether.

Renegades should really be represented in the Vanilla codex, but that's just my opinion.

Now that'd be really cool, if all Black Legion models counted as having each Mark of Chaos. Not sure how useful it'd be, but it'd be cool.

 Yarium wrote:
Now that'd be really cool, if all Black Legion models counted as having each Mark of Chaos. Not sure how useful it'd be, but it'd be cool.

That's...not what I mean.

With the 7th edition Chaos Legion supplement, it was made so that the Cult Legions were forced into buying their respective God's mark, Night Lords + Iron Warriors + Alpha Legion weren't allowed to buy any mark, and lastly Black Legion + Word Bearers had flexibility to choose any mark that they wanted.

 Yarium wrote:
Very unhappy that my go-to tourney list isn't "invalidated" by Chapter Approved, but the points increases to Cultists actually make it illegal. I have to totally redesign the list; can't just fudge number around by saving on upgrades or anything. Anyhow, I'd love to play a pure Black Legion army. I'm going to ask folks if they'd let me use the following revision to Black Legion Trait:

"When shooting, if you make a hit-roll of 6+, you may make an additional shot with the same weapon." and have it apply to all my units, rather than just Infantry, Bikes, and Helbrutes. Only applies if every model in the army (not just detachment) is Black Legion. What do you think?

I haven't run the math, but I'd be a little wary of such a rule. It's basically the Dakka Dakka Dakka rule but on a (typically) BS3+ platform. Plus, CSM have access to rerolls to hit. On orks, you're typically only hitting with 1/3rd of your shots in the first place, and then you only hit with 1/3rd of the bonus shots. On CSM, you're hitting with 2/3rds of your shots to begin with, possibly rerolling to turn 2/3rds of 1/2 of your misses into hits, and then doing the same thing again with the bonus shots generated by 1/4th of your hits. Then again, maybe the boost to offense would be balanced out by the fact that you get about twice as many orks per CSM. Then again (again), tank bustas and lootas love their dakka dakka dakka, and they're more expensive than your average CSM (albeit with better guns).

Not sure. Would have to math it better. I agree that it feels a little out of character though. BL aren't really the shooty legion. They're the terminators, chosen, and whatever mark you're in the mood for legion. This would be more... I don't know... Iron Warriors style maybe?

Too op. Other factions get 16% extra attacks while standing still. The trait is deliberately bad because you get the biggest baddest Codex Unique unit, same for Necrons and Space Marines. It applying to vehicles is too much to ask, that opens the box for balancing all kinds of units, maybe with a vastly weaker trait (re-roll failed charge rolls or something) I'd entertain the idea. Orks getting re-roll 1s also turned out to be too good because their Shooting units went from trash to gold because of the other buffs they got, you have to have really weak shooting or incredibly strong alternatives for something like this to be fair.

Re-rolling a single failed Hit roll and Wound roll for each unit each phase (same as Salamanders) would encourage taking those elite Chosen and Terminator squads and makes Abaddon a niche support unit for large squads, rather than a buff to everyone close. Alternatively having up to one Hit roll each phase for each unit count as two hits. No double-tapping Slaanesh ridiculousness with hitting on 2+ re-rolling 1s and extra shots on 5s and +1 to wound, which is probably what you were going for, but it doesn't sound very fun to play against.

I've got some ideas for improving Word Bearers I'll post here.

Profane Zeal: You can re-roll any Morale roll for units with this trait. In addition, Daemon units which were summoned with the Daemonic Ritual Ability while those units are within 6" of a unit with this trait.

Fixes the problem of it not working according to RAW and makes it a tiny bit more worthwhile. Alternatively.

Profane Zeal: Units with this trait can treat HERETIC ASTARTES as having the IMPERIUM keyword for the purpose of the Death to the False Emperor Ability and you can re-roll any Morale test for units with this trait.

I don't know, they're more zealous followers of chaos than the other Heretic Astartes? Maybe change it to treat all units as having the IMPERIUM keyword, make them the ones that are good against non-Imperium armies, instead of just HERETIC ASTARTES, I just thought it'd be weird for them to be strong against Daemons.

Emperor's Children also need something I think, World Eaters are sort of okay just because they can take Berzerkers as troops, for Emperor's Children I'm not seeing it, Alpha Legion is a better tactic for Noise Marines, so there is no real benefit to running them AFAIK.