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Premise: Jeeze, i got all these mtg token cards laying around doing nothing. Jeeze, wh40k is just too expensive. What if there was a game that played like wh40k but with cheap playing cards that are not the traditional tcg? (TCG typical game where you have a hand if cards drawn from a deck of cards).

So instead of the mtg derivative where you make a 30 card deck and draw 4 cards and duel like Horus Heresy: Legions (its a mobile game where heartstone is reskinned as wh40k). You construct your army from a homebrewed codex with arbitrary points based on the power/toughness of the token and variable ussr abilities (flying, vigilance, death touch, first strike, haste).

What if we played wh40k as a flat 2D game removing height and true line of sight. Keeping some impassable terrain and other terrain areas counting as cover.

For starters, what if 1/1 token is 5pts like a guardsman. 2/2 token is 15pts like a marine. 3/3 token is 40pts like a terminator. Other abilities such as flying taxes on another 5pts for 1s/1s but for 2s/2s the cost is 10pts.

For scale reference

Mtg soldiers, birds, goblins = 1s/1s =guardsmen, grots, cultists, 3-5pts
Wolves, bears, Knights = 2s/2s = Marine, Necron Warriors, Boyz 10-15pts
Beasts, Elephants, Centaur = 3s/3s = Terminators, Nobz, Ogryn 35-45pts
Angels, ????, ???? = 4s/4s = Dreadnaughts, Sentinels, Kanz 95-125pts.
Dragons, Elementals, ???? = 5s/5s = Daemon Prince, Forge Fiend, Nemesis Dred Knight 180-210pts
Wurms, ????, ???? = 6s/6s = Imperial Knights, Riptides, Wraith Knights 325-400pts

You stack the same cards (can not mix tokens with different power and toughness and abilities in order to keep things simple.) in order to make a squad of 5-10 man teams. Max limit 10 in a stack. You pick up the whole stack and move it that many inches. Each individual token has a number of wounds to remove, example a beast has 3 wounds. Deal 3 wounds to the unit stack and the 1st Beast token card is removed .
You roll dice. 1s/1s need a 4+ a d 2s/2s need a 3+. This is to emulate guardsmen vs marines. The to hit can be different for balancing issues.

To charge, you roll 2d6 and you move the card token. If it is with in 1 inch of declared target then they pile in and fight. Remove over watch to make it easier.

You treat the stack of 1/1s as str3 guardsmen. This will be confusing because some token is 1/1 or 1/2 or any combination of numbers. We use the 8th ed to wound chart. P=T then 4+ to wound. P>T then 3+ to wound. P<T then 5+ to wound. P=(2*T) then 2+ to wound. P=(T/2) then 6+ needed to wound.

What about armor saves? Average guardsman have that 5+ armor. But Ork Boyz are strong yet have 5+ armor too. A token only has power/toughness, creature type and color. Thats it. How would you determine armor saves are appropriate? A green 2/2 wolf is equivalent of a white 2/2 knight, but should a wolf have armor as good as a knight? Due to the limited info printed on a token card, this problem can not be addressed without outside context of a written codex detailing more supplement info than a mtg token card can provide.

But what about weapon skill? Would not an elvish green 1/1 warrior be more skillful than white soldier 1/1? Due to the limited info printed on a token card, this problem can not be addressed without outside context of a written codex detailing more supplement info than a mtg token card can provide.

How does leadership work? When a stack of tokens fight and lose more tokens (not wounds) than the enemy stack of tokens in the fight phase, it must make a leadership test by rolling d6 and adding the tokens slain. Remove tokens equal to the difference of the tokens ld score and the dice results.

How does vigilance, haste, first strike, double strike, menace, intimidate, fly, trample flank, bushido, regenerate all play into this? I have not yet thought this trough and need help.

Possibilities:
Flying = move 12" over impassable terrain, airborne = non flying enemy gets -1 to hit. This is a very good ability and should cost more.

Reach = hit flying tokens with no penalties. This is situational and should cost least.

First strike = get to hit and wound before enemy does in fight even if enemy charged first. If both opposing tokens have first strike then they hit and wound at the same time in a first strike phase before regular tokens. Should cost less than flying but still substantial.

Double strike = gets to fight in the first strike sub phase and again in the same fight phase. This is very good and should cost as much as flying or more because it is first strike and 1 additional attack.

Haste = guaranteed 6" run, reroll 2d6 charge and roll 2d6 and keep highest for moving through difficult terrain. Should cost less than flying.

intimidate = -1 ld for enemy within 6" does not stack.

Fear = -2 ld for enemy within 6" does not stack.

Menace= If enemy is a different color, then enemy gets -1A, can not be reduce below 1A.

Trample = confers AP-1. Can assign wounds. Can assign wounds to adjacent tokens not in direct combat. Should cost less than first strike.

Regenerate = Feel No Pain 5+++saves

Vigilance= +1 ld and reroll ld test, +1 toughness when joining adjacent ally token in fight phase. (can attack enemies who are directly fighting an adjacent ally creature token. Enemy can not assign wounds to non adjacent enemy tokens. Allows players to envelope creature tokens with vigilance thereby giving that token ablative wounds.)

Shroud/ hex proof = infiltrate upon deployment. 5+ invul save.

Death touch = mortal wounds no saves. (bypasses armor, fnp and invul saves)

Indestructible = 4+++ invul save.

Infect = poison on 4+ to wound regardless of toughness.

Lifelink = restore wounds by damage dealt, can not exceed starting limit.

Reach= fight flyers with no penalties to hit.

To keep things simple. You can only play an army of 1 color. There are multicolor tokens. Ok we make exception and only allow those multicolor tokens if it shares a color of your primary army.

For example, a Red army would consists of goblins as troops and spark elementals as fast attack and dragons as heavy. A Green army would have wolves and elves as troops and elephants as elites, beasts as heavy support and wurms as super heavies. White has soldiers as troops, spirits as fast attack, angels as elite. Black has zombies as troops, vampires as elites, bats as fast attack, and demons tokens as heavy. That doesnt make sense as most heavies and elites such as dragons, angels, demons have fly, wouldnt they fit fast attack? Perhaps they just belong in the Air Wing detachment.

Force organization chart.

HQs= there are no valid hq tokens
Troops = majority of 1s/1s and 2s/2s
Elite = majority of 3s/3s
Fast attack = stuff with haste and fly
Heavy support = 4s/4s and up.
Super heavy = 5s/5s and 6s/6s
Air wing = Dragons, Angels, Demons

You still need to build a detachment of choice from patrol, battalion, brigade, vanguard, out rider, spear head, supreme command, air wing.

For now, you can designate 1 multi wound, non troop, as token hq. Pick a dragon or something big. Most 3s/3s are eligible. 2/2 are risky. HQs can not join squad stacks. They just can not be declared charged unless they are the nearest token card.

Points cost. Why is a guardsman 1/3 the cost of a marine if its just an overall +1 to all stats? I am not sure, it just works although 8th ed, a guardsman cost 4pts and marines 13pts now.

So a 1/1 should cost a 3rd of a 2/2. But what is to stop someone from just buying stacks of hundreds of 1s/1s and just fielding that? Weak creatures should have weak leadership. But leadership is not very important. You limit squad size. But i have yet to think of solution.

Harmless, defenseless
Germ token = 0/0 =1 pt, still exists but needs equipment.

goats and eldrazi spawns = 0/1 = 2pts, move 4, ws0, 0A, sv6+, ld5

Defense tokens
Plants = 0/1 or 0/2= 2pts Mov0", no ws, 0A, 2W, sv5+, no ld
Wall= 0/3 = 3pts. Mov0", no ws/bs, 0A, 3W, sv3+, no ld

Untrained, undisciplined
Goblin, Human, Human cleric/citizen, Myr, squirrel, saprolings, sliver= 1/1 = 4pts, move 5, ws5+,1W, sv6+, ld6

Trained
Soldier= 1/1 = 5pts, move 5, ws4+, 1A, 1W, sv5+, ld7
Warriors, monks = 1/1 = 7pts, move 5, ws4+, 2A, 1W, sv5+, ld7
Elf warrior =1/1 = 6pts, move 5, ws3+, 1A, 1W, sv5+, ld7
Merfolk = 1/1 =5pts, mv5, ws4+, 1A,1W, sv5+, ld7, hexproof (infiltrate)

Snakes = 1/1 =8 pts, move 4, ws5+, 1W, sv6+, ld6, death touch (mortal wounds)

Wild, undisciplined
birds, fairy, bat=1/1 = 11pts, move 12, ws5+, 1A, 1W, sv6+, ld6, flying

Conscious, disciplined
Spirit, thopther = 1/1 =12pts, mov12, ws4+, 1A,1W, sv5+, ld7 flying.

Poison flying Insect =1/1 = 18pts, move 12, ws5+, 1W, 1A, sv6+, ld6, flying, death touch.

Spider=1/2= 6pts move5, ws5+, 1A, sv5+, ld6, reach
Spider=1/3= 11pts move5, ws4+, 1A, sv4+, ld6, reach

Wolves, Cat satyr=2/2= 13pts mv8, ws5+, 1A, 2W,sv5+, ld6
Bear, Ape= 2/2 = 13pts, mov5, ws5+, 1A, 2W, sv4+, ld7

Zombie =2/2= 13pts, mv4, ws6+,1A, 2W, sv6, ld5 takes no leadership tests. Feel no pain save 5+++

Knight =2/2= 16pts mv6, ws4+, 1A, 2W, sv3+, ld8
Knight with vigilance =+4pts
Knight with first strike = +7pts

Pirate, rogue= 2/2 = 14pts mov5, ws5+, 1A, 2W, sv5+, ld7, menace

Drake = 2/2 = 25pts, mov12, ws5+, 1A, 2W, sv5+, ld7, flying

Djin monk, Vampires = 2/2= 28pts mov12, ws4+, 1A, 2W, sv4+, ld8, flying

Elephant, Beast, hippo, dinosaur, horror, frog lizard= 3/3 = 42pts, mov 6, ws5+, 2A, 3W, sv5+, ld 7
Dinosaur with trample = add 7pts.
Beast/wurm with death touch = add 9pts
Wurm with lifelink = add 15pts
Bird with flying = add 25pts

Centaur =3/3= 46pts, mov8, ws4+, 2A, 3W, sv4+, ld8
Golem =3/3=52pts, mov5, ws4+, 2A, 3W, sv3+, ld9
Ogre=3/3= 44pts, mov5, ws5+, 2A, 3W, sv4+, ld7
Spark elemental = 3/1= 36pts, mov 6, ws3+, 3A, 1W, sv5+, ld9, trample, haste.

Eldrazi horror =3/2= 38pts = mov4, ws6, 2A, 2W, sv6, ld9, feel no pain 5+++.

Angels =4/4= 115pts, mov12, ws3+, 3A, 4W, sv3+, ld9, flying vigilance.

Orge =4/4=85pts, mov5, ws5+, 3A, 4W, sv5+, ld7

Demons and Dragons =5/5=235pts, mov12,ws5, 4A, 5w, sv4+, ld10, flying.

Wurm = 6/6= 425pts, mov6, ws5+, 5A, 6w, sv4+, ld9

Merit Lage = 20/20 = 1500pts, mov12, ws5+, 16A, 20w, sv4+, ld12, flying, indestructible (invul save 4+)

Special Ixalan mission
Requirements, 12 clue tokens, 3 treasure tokens, 9 creature tokens to represent critter ambush.

Shuffle the 3 treasure tokens with the 9 creature tokens.
Put a clue token on top of each on of the other cards.

Take turns distributing these cards as obj markers.

Happy hunting.

Would like feedback on points costing and translating mtg rules into wh40k. Feel free to criticize.


Note*
Dec 11, remove ballistic skill and shooting altogether.
Creature tokens with "Reach" will be the only ones to combat flyers without penalty aside from other flyers. Added wound stats . Update a few keywords to be simpler.

Will incorporate flayer husk equipment due to germ token in the future. However i am really just considering removing germ token from the game entirely.

Perhaps my wall of text was too convoluted and confusing to read and understand. Does anyone have any questions?

Warhammer 8th edition is more about doing something with the miniatures you own rather than something so great you want to figure out how to play it with off-brand stuff. If you really want to you can play it straight out of the book using based-sized tokens and pieces of felt as terrain.

I recommend playing it and going from there. If you like it and it is fun.... keep refining it. Game design is something you do for yourself and maybe your game group an no one else. If you like it proceed.

I use Green Army Men or paper templates to play games. That is the way the first RT scenario was designed to run!

However, I have thought of playing a game using basic poker cards as the "units" with different suits equaling infantry, artillery, cavalry. However, it is a different scale game then 40K.

If you would like to see any of these things, PM me and I will shoot you some links.

I started to read through it, but here's my genuine concern.

Warhammer 40K is popular because of the following reasons:

1) Pretty darn good miniatures. (a cool aesthetic when collected, painted and put on a pretty table)
2) Excellent longevity, lore, and background, fluff/art, etc.
3) Popularity means you can always find a game.
4) Healthy tournament presence
5) ....
6)....
7)....
8)....
9)....rules.

Warhammer 40K has almost never had quality rules. The rules have always been the weak point. They pale in comparison to almost every single other wargame I've ever played. They're right where they need to be: mediocre or okay. They're just enough to keep people buying plastic. I think basing anything around even a vague interpretation of the 40K rules is more or less a waste of time. If 40K is too expensive to collect, you're probably lucky. You're not missing anything on the game front. Writing your own, completely separate rules would be a better, more enjoyable experience. You can interpret the fluff/lore better/easier than GW themselves. You're not limited to their fairly narrow scope of rules.

I've enjoyed 40K on/off for 25 years. The rules have simply never been the source of the enjoyment. For the past 20 of those 25 years the rules have been increasingly intrinsically tied to model sales. Newer/stronger/better models = newer/stronger/better rules, and higher prices, etc. If you can start from scratch with your own ideas, you're not limited by pushing model sales. You're not limited by trying to get more and more plastic on the table (armies have ballooned since, say, 2nd edition). You have no limitations. I just wouldn't pin anything around the base 40K rules. That seems a completely wasted effort, and you're kinda hamstringing yourself by doing that.

Again, just personal opinion.

I wish i knew how to play other war games.

Are there any other war games that are even simpler than wh40k that incan borrow from and build off of?

Yup. Try these: http://www.tacticalassaultgames.com/category/combat_cards/

Self-Promotion Ahead!

https://www.wargamevault.com/browse/pub/11064/Blood-and-Spectacles-Publishing

Go to the link. Pick up the following: Pay What You Want games:

Green Army Men: Plastic Men, Steel Resolve
High Noon: Plastic Men, Steel Resolve
Total CARnage

Simple games that use Dexterity mechanics and found material to play.

Another thing to consider is some of the luxury board games, which often have mechanics which can easily translate into wargaming.

The main issue, is more or less what I listed above: when a game and its miniatures become linked to sales mechanics...you end up with a sub-par product. You see the same kind of mediocre game design from companies like Fantasy Flight Games, where their "wargames" are all based upon buying new released to get upgrade cards, etc. That, in itself is a directly conflict toward "writing the best rules you can", which is what the end consumer would rather have.

While a lot of games may sell expansions or "DLC" type products, often they're selling you a different product - whereas games which are tied to building massive armies have to constantly shift to make new stuff you want to buy, as opposed to a normal expansion. The "plastic arms race" means that GW can't just sell you a Space Marine army...and then you enjoy that army for 10-15 years. That means GW isn't making money. So they need to sell you new stuff, be it a new army, or "new" models and units for your army. They have to keep the money flow constant.

A lot of other game companies don't have the logistical power to use that methodology, so they resort to selling a better product, simpler. If you're interested in simply reading other rule types, check out the Osprey line of Wargaming books. They're limited to maybe 68 pages and sell for $15-20 on Amazon, etc. Most of these are simply rules that you buy, read...and then collect and build using whatever models you want. But for simply reading alternate gaming rule sets, you can try them for quite cheap.

Two whole pages of options here:
https://ospreypublishing.com/store/osprey-games/osprey-wargames

Dragon Rampant: generic fantasy wargames
Gaslands: post apocalyptic vehicles (think Mad Max)
Lion Rampant: Like Dragon Rampant, but came first and is intended for normal medieval style gaming
etc.

Keep in mind, the game doesn't have to be science fiction or even a wargame to provide you with ideas on how to design something. My Old West game that I sell? Started as a Robotech convention game for crying out loud...lol. Game mechanics are game mechanics. You might discover something in a board game, and then a fantasy game, and then a dungeon crawl, and then an Old West game, and then a Roman gladiator game, etc....You can always translate them into use for a home-brew game.

Almost every Osprey release, for example, is simply a hobby project by the author. Most of them are not linked to any miniature lines, there's nothing to sell but the rulebook. You won't find imbalanced or suspiciously statted/costed units, etc. There's no power-hungry meta-machine behind the rules...just someone who likes writing wargaming rules. You'll quickly discover games can be faster, better, more interesting, more deep, or more elegant than GW stuff. You can then even port some of those ideas into your own GW games if you want.