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Quick one... the victrix honor guards storm shields are 5points, chapter approved has reduced storm shields to 2 points for space marines.

Victrix honour guard are clearly space marines, yet their points aren't taken from the codex.

Simple really, do we think that this effects the victrix honour guard?

If they aren't in the codex they don't use the codex points. Unless the sheet actually says to use Codex points.

Are they called "Victrix storm shields" or storm Shields?

They are called storm shields.

 fraser1191 wrote:
Are they called "Victrix storm shields" or storm Shields?

I don't think this matters by RAW. If the datasheet isn't in the Codex, and it doesn't reference the Codex, then the items are distinct from the Codex ones.

They can't even be consistent with rules released at the same time as miniatures.
Great job.

The datasheet is a supplement for Codex: Space Marines, you use Codex: Space Marines prices for the equipment.

 Crimson wrote:
The datasheet is a supplement for Codex: Space Marines, you use Codex: Space Marines prices for the equipment.

I'm happy to take that if it's true, but indulge me: does it actually state it's a supplement for the Codex?

 Stux wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
The datasheet is a supplement for Codex: Space Marines, you use Codex: Space Marines prices for the equipment.

I'm happy to take that if it's true, but indulge me: does it actually state it's a supplement for the Codex?

Certainly you must assume that about any additional datasheet, even if it was not explicitly stated, or the game breaks down. For example, otherwise you might just as well argue that Calgar and the Honour Guard don't actually get Chapter Tactic, as that is printed on the codex and they're not part of it.

 Crimson wrote:

 Stux wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
The datasheet is a supplement for Codex: Space Marines, you use Codex: Space Marines prices for the equipment.

I'm happy to take that if it's true, but indulge me: does it actually state it's a supplement for the Codex?

Certainly you must assume that about any additional datasheet, even if it was not explicitly stated, or the game breaks down. For example, otherwise you might just as well argue that Calgar and the Honour Guard don't actually get Chapter Tactic, as that is printed on the codex and they're not part of it.

He still has the relevant keywords so he still gets the Chapter Tactic. This is a different situation.

 Stux wrote:

He still has the relevant keywords so he still gets the Chapter Tactic. This is a different situation.

No it's not. You need to refer to the codex for the Chapter Tactic, just like you refer to the codex for the equipment costs.

 Crimson wrote:

 Stux wrote:

He still has the relevant keywords so he still gets the Chapter Tactic. This is a different situation.

No it's not. You need to refer to the codex for the Chapter Tactic, just like you refer to the codex for the equipment costs.

The codex says that anyone with the relevant keyword gets the tactic, it doesn't limit it to sheets in the codex. It doesn't say any such thing about wargear.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All this said, it could still be the case that you DO use the codex prices. But it will all depend on how the datasheet is presented and what information is with it, which no one has directly quoted yet.

The datasheet which comes in the box with the minis says: "These essential rules will get your new unit on the battlefield - for the full rules for this unit, see the codex relevant to your army." I don't know what the Vigilus book says.

 Crimson wrote:
The datasheet which comes in the box with the minis says: "These essential rules will get your new unit on the battlefield - for the full rules for this unit, see the codex relevant to your army." I don't know what the Vigilus book says.

Oof. Ok, well I will concede that the best interpretation of that is to use the codex prices.

I just wish they would word things more rigorously... Like, Codex "for your army". My army right now is Dark Anegls so I should check there hah? I'm being facetious of course, but seriously. Is it so hard to explicitly say "use the wargear list in Codex Space Marines"?

What's really important is to know if Victrix are solely for Ultramarines because thatll determine if I make stand-in models or not.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
What's really important is to know if Victrix are solely for Ultramarines because thatll determine if I make stand-in models or not.

They've got the keyword "Ultramarines" so I'd assume so.

ValentineGames wrote:
They can't even be consistent with rules released at the same time as miniatures.
Great job.

Are they primaris?

 gbghg wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
What's really important is to know if Victrix are solely for Ultramarines because thatll determine if I make stand-in models or not.

They've got the keyword "Ultramarines" so I'd assume so.

Well that's fething lame, isn't it?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 gbghg wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
What's really important is to know if Victrix are solely for Ultramarines because thatll determine if I make stand-in models or not.

They've got the keyword "Ultramarines" so I'd assume so.

Well that's fething lame, isn't it?

That a unit created to be a bodyguard for an Ultramarines special character would be an Ultramarines unit?

Not really.

 Dysartes wrote:

That a unit created to be a bodyguard for an Ultramarines special character would be an Ultramarines unit?

But it is just a Primaris upgrade to the existing honour guard which was available to everyone, so in that sense it is a bit disappointing.

 Crimson wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

That a unit created to be a bodyguard for an Ultramarines special character would be an Ultramarines unit?

But it is just a Primaris upgrade to the existing honour guard which was available to everyone, so in that sense it is a bit disappointing.

Frankly, other chapters should feel lucky they can field HG at all, since the official models are UM specific. Well, BA would get to keep their sanguinary guard. Silly no model, no rules BS.

I’ve always felt that unless there was a strong reason to restrict something, it should be open to all. It’s not something chapter focused like wulfen, or death company. Or even a useless, but flavorful option like the Tyranic War Vets (which while being very UM specific, could be argued as applicable to many other chapters). It’s not like the job of body-guarding HQs is new or unique. Take a skilled swordsman, give him basic gear out of the armory, have him stand next to the boss and stab anyone that gets close. Done.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 gbghg wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
What's really important is to know if Victrix are solely for Ultramarines because thatll determine if I make stand-in models or not.

They've got the keyword "Ultramarines" so I'd assume so.

Well that's fething lame, isn't it?

> Bodyguard for Ultramarines character
> Explicitly called out as part of an Ultramarines combat force in the lore (Victrix)
> Covered in Ultramarines iconography
> Only released alongside Calgar

Did you expect them to be available to everyone?
If they were "just" Honour Guard, then maybe, but the fact they are explicitly called out as Victrix Honour Guard, with Victrix being an Ultramarines-only force in the lore, I'm hardly surprised.

Would you expect Sanguinary Guard to be taken by everyone? Deathwing Knights? Because it's fundamentally the same thing - an elite warrior group within the Chapter.

I'd expect an FAQ to the book that will drop the shields to 2pts

 Nevelon wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

That a unit created to be a bodyguard for an Ultramarines special character would be an Ultramarines unit?

But it is just a Primaris upgrade to the existing honour guard which was available to everyone, so in that sense it is a bit disappointing.

Frankly, other chapters should feel lucky they can field HG at all, since the official models are UM specific. Well, BA would get to keep their sanguinary guard. Silly no model, no rules BS.

I’ve always felt that unless there was a strong reason to restrict something, it should be open to all. It’s not something chapter focused like wulfen, or death company. Or even a useless, but flavorful option like the Tyranic War Vets (which while being very UM specific, could be argued as applicable to many other chapters). It’s not like the job of body-guarding HQs is new or unique. Take a skilled swordsman, give him basic gear out of the armory, have him stand next to the boss and stab anyone that gets close. Done.

Oh , I agree, but considering that it doesn't seem to be that way with anyone else, why did people expect differently from the Ultramarines?

I mean, it makes no sense that the Blood Angels are the only Chapter to have their Honour Guard with jump packs, or the Deathwing the only Terminators to have plasma cannons, or the Space Wolves the only Chapter to have biological mounts.

I wouldn't mind them all being opened up, but thinking the Ultramarines Victrix would be opened up when all the others are locked behind their own Chapters is a little unexpected.

 Dysartes wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 gbghg wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
What's really important is to know if Victrix are solely for Ultramarines because thatll determine if I make stand-in models or not.

They've got the keyword "Ultramarines" so I'd assume so.

Well that's fething lame, isn't it?

That a unit created to be a bodyguard for an Ultramarines special character would be an Ultramarines unit?

Not really.

Oh, let's be real- They'll be guarding Girlyman 90% of the time and he shows up in practically every SM army so they'll inevitably tag along too.