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Hi

Are Primaris marines untouched by the Black Rage? I've read that they are immune to the 'flaws of the geneseed' of their Primarchs. But the Black Rage is such a key part of the Blood Angels fluff that I'm not sure what would make Primaris Blood Angels if they're immune to it. It's something I really like about the Blood Angels and that I would even theme a force around. So, I turn to the fluff experts of Dakka - are Primaris immune to it?
Thanks in advance!

At the moment the Primaris don't suffer from the Black Rage. However that's potentially from a simplification point on Games Workshops end. They Primaris very much don't have any Chapter specific stuff at present, likely to help make the roll out of the models easier. In universe they've been seeing battle for around 200 years so if Games Workshop decide that enough fans want Death Company Primaris then they can easily say the tech that removed the flaw has failed. So at the moment they're immune to the Black Rage but whether that stays the same is anyone's guess.

In fairness, the Imperium thought they'd eliminated the black rage before, in the Lamenters during the cursed founding. They were wrong but it took a while to show up...


If they are immune to the rage, then it's probably due to the fact that Belisarius Deus-Ex-Machina Cawl developed primaris geneseed from the genetic material in the sangprimus portem. If that material was drawn from Sanguinius before the signus cluster war, it might be free of the Black Rage (but not the red thirst..)

Sounds like as the fluff stands, they don't suffer from it, which is kind of a shame. I suppose we'll see how things shake out though.

They don't seem to suffer from it as yet. There was an incident though where some Primaris Marines were lured into a trap by the Alpha Legion and went into a level of berserk rage that frightened even veteran Blood Angels. Corbulo witnessed the massacre and was so worried he went straight back to Baal to report it.

Whatever Cawl has done, they certainly aren't just red Ultramarines (whatever Seth thinks). GW have definitely left the door open for the curse to raise its head in some fashion in the future with the Primaris Marines. The fluff for the Space Wolves is similar.

From GW's POV, this makes sense. There are no Primaris Death Company or Wulfen yet but they may decide that Primaris are still susceptible to these in future.

Brother Corbulo looked into it. Look up the Khovan Incident. It seems that Blood Angel Primaris might have a temper problem. Enough to worry Corbulo.

It might be manifesting in a different form for Primaris.

Primaris will probably be fine until they start drinking second hand Sanguinius blood.

When you have the quasi psychic power to gain the memories and experiences of things you consume, and you consume the blood of your traumatically murdered father, it is perhaps expected that eventually your first hand memories of his death will start to drive you crazy.

How about SW primaries? Do they turn into wulfen or have the mark of the wulfen?

Not yet.
The Wolves don’t have much to do with half their stock, they left them on Terra as sentries.
The other half are yet to be mentioned.

What I hope not to see, is GW getting rid of all that flavour and making marines more 'realistic' and getting rid of what makes them so interesting.

I really hope that the gene seed imperfections start to manifest, otherwise all flavour is gone from space marines. The way it has been set up suggests that Cawl has taken risks that could make it very interesting.

phillv85 wrote:
I really hope that the gene seed imperfections start to manifest, otherwise all flavour is gone from space marines. The way it has been set up suggests that Cawl has taken risks that could make it very interesting.

Would be nice to have some flaws put into these Astartes +1

It would also be nice if the IoM remembered its paranoid, fanatical, closed minded, and self serving roots to call out Cawl for the megalithic heretic he is.

 Vankraken wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
I really hope that the gene seed imperfections start to manifest, otherwise all flavour is gone from space marines. The way it has been set up suggests that Cawl has taken risks that could make it very interesting.

Would be nice to have some flaws put into these Astartes +1

It would also be nice if the IoM remembered its paranoid, fanatical, closed minded, and self serving roots to call out Cawl for the megalithic heretic he is.

be interesting if it turned out Primaris were sorta like the thunder warriors shorter lived and have more extreme berserker rage.

Assuming that Primaris is the future for all Space Marines (and no, I'm not trying to start that discussion for the umpteenth time), perhaps this is a nice way that GW can hit the reset button on just how stupidly outlandish some of the variant chapters have gotten.

Obviously when the game was still in its infancy, Space Marine chapters were just what colours you slapped onto your models, they were all more or less identical. Then 2nd/3rd ed started pushing the boundaries, giving some of them a bit more flavour. Space Wolves, Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels etc all distinguished themselves with a few unique units.

At some point, it started getting a bit silly though, to the point that some of these armies no longer even looked like Space Marine armies anymore. I dunno where it started, perhaps with the original 13th Company (?) from the Eye or Terror Codex?

Hopefully this is a big old reset that then lets GW start pushing the fluff for the various Primaris factions back in the right direction. Ie adding in Primaris Death Company, Primaris Grey Hunters/Blood Claws etc again. As far as rules go, people would be able to use their legacy models to represent these new units of course, and it would also encourage awesome new kits using the Mk X armour that we have now.

We are getting of topic here.

But what is the trade of off making primaries. They do not have the growth that you use to make more space marines right? Just so I have it:

When a regular marine dies, they get two geneseeds from him and slapp them into two new recruits. With out this the SM would not be autonomus, asuming they get their equipments restocked.

If all space marines are primaris, like an entier chapter, have they not cut of their independense?

Primaris still have progenoid glands. They're implant #18 and primaris explicitely have all 19 'classic' gene-seed organs, plus their new unique ones.

considering the space wolves still have their primaris wulfening out, I would assume at some point it'll crop up. If not I'm even more over the newer fluff than ever. I really don't like that Cawl is able to essentially out science the Emperor.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
considering the space wolves still have their primaris wulfening out, I would assume at some point it'll crop up. If not I'm even more over the newer fluff than ever. I really don't like that Cawl is able to essentially out science the Emperor.

The emperor had a lot on his plate across 300 years.

Crawl had 10000 years on a single project. (And basically just invented platform shoes for space marines).

Ahhhh! Ahhhh! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!.

Remember. The Geneseed Cawl used had been purified, refined and fixed up.

But that's not all the Geneseed that's available to a given Chapter now, is it? Is there some kind of Quality Control programme to ensure future generations of Primaris only use the rarified stock? If not, guess what's coming back!

And what happens if the progenoid glands are mixed? Would the flaws taint the purity, or the purity dilute the flaw? Which might win out, and how many generations of Primaris will it take for that to show?

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I really don't like that Cawl is able to essentially out science the Emperor.

To be fair, the HH novels have made it pretty clear that Marines were not the pinnacle of the Emperor's genetic achievements, the Custodes are his masterpieces. The Marines were designed for the Great Crusade. They were intended to be mass produced and disposed of once the Imperium was secured. The Big E never intended to be standing armies for 10,000 years.

 Raichase wrote:
Assuming that Primaris is the future for all Space Marines (and no, I'm not trying to start that discussion for the umpteenth time), perhaps this is a nice way that GW can hit the reset button on just how stupidly outlandish some of the variant chapters have gotten.

Obviously when the game was still in its infancy, Space Marine chapters were just what colours you slapped onto your models, they were all more or less identical. Then 2nd/3rd ed started pushing the boundaries, giving some of them a bit more flavour. Space Wolves, Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels etc all distinguished themselves with a few unique units.

At some point, it started getting a bit silly though, to the point that some of these armies no longer even looked like Space Marine armies anymore. I dunno where it started, perhaps with the original 13th Company (?) from the Eye or Terror Codex?.

It started with the 2nd edition Space Wolf codex. The very first codex. Not only the bad Wolf naming, but the massive departure from the baseline 'Space Marine,' which is amusing since their fortress-monastery (on a world that isn't Fenris) was used as a 'typical example' in the Rogue Trader book. This codex pretty much set the standard for 'bit silly'

But their statline made a huge jump right away (WS5 almost across the board, even for blood claws (but not scouts, who were still younglings at this point), BS5 for long fangs, and all sorts of shenanigans with terminator weapon loadout). Their special snowflake nature was hanging all out from that very first book. The Wulfen are here in hints and whispers, though not rules (and the hints are confusing mostly because of the book's terrible layout. pages 17-30 are a WD battle report between Andy Chambers and Jervis featuring Ragnar, Ulrik and Njal face-rolling the poor orks by turn 3, with a few wolf guard and 1 squad each of hunters, claws and long fangs). The last 11 pages are just the SW miniatures catalog.

Voss wrote:
It started with the 2nd edition Space Wolf codex. The very first codex. Not only the bad Wolf naming, but the massive departure from the baseline 'Space Marine,' which is amusing since their fortress-monastery (on a world that isn't Fenris) was used as a 'typical example' in the Rogue Trader book. This codex pretty much set the standard for 'bit silly'

But their statline made a huge jump right away (WS5 almost across the board, even for blood claws (but not scouts, who were still younglings at this point), BS5 for long fangs, and all sorts of shenanigans with terminator weapon loadout). Their special snowflake nature was hanging all out from that very first book. The Wulfen are here in hints and whispers, though not rules (and the hints are confusing mostly because of the book's terrible layout. pages 17-30 are a WD battle report between Andy Chambers and Jervis featuring Ragnar, Ulrik and Njal face-rolling the poor orks by turn 3, with a few wolf guard and 1 squad each of hunters, claws and long fangs). The last 11 pages are just the SW miniatures catalog.

Despite playing a bit of 2nd ed, I never actually saw the Space Wolf codex, so didn't realise it was *that bad*. I know they toned them down a fair bit in 3rd, but they still had all the unique units and did reasonably well from the 3rd ed "Rhino Rush" tactic. As did Blood Angels and Black Templars and a few other armies. I always felt they had a good flavour in 3rd ed without having to resort to wolf-riding space marines or werewolf space marines, which of course got even more mental when they not only introduced the wulfen with models and rules, but then started giving them crazy weapons. At least the original 13th Company made a little bit of sense, they were berzerkers who attacked with tooth and claw...

Well the Chapter Master of the flesh tearers sums it up best for me. Seth refers to the primaris marines as Ultramarines in Red armour which pretty much sums up my feelings as well.