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Made in be
Been Around the Block





I've had this idea for a long while now, that I wanted some newer, bigger Eldar models.

As my warhost generally follows the structure of 1 bigger model for 2 smaller ones, I have 2 Cobras, 2 Scorpions, 8 Lynxes and then it's a bit of a mess at the moment.

But what was clear was that I wanted to create a new model, for at least 2 Bigger than Scorpion/Cobra tanks, and maybe even 1 bigger than that.


I've settled on the concept of a Tank Hunter, like the Lynx, using a Prism Cannon.

This thread will be the project log for the creation of my two Doom Prism Super-Super-Heavy Eldar Tanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And here's the first picture of the finished model for the Doom Prism Cannon.

It's a bit more advanced than the last physical version - no reason to re-print a physical version at this stage yet.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I started with the gun, probably the most important piece of all (that's what she said).



As said above, not the latest version of the 3D model, but you get the idea - and so do I.
The real one will be printed in multiple parts, standing, rather than laying flat - otherwise support structures mess up at least half the model (that's also why I broke 3 of the 5 prism "shields" and only found 2 to glue back).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And then... I had no idea what to do because the rest of this titanic task seemed overwhelming, so I decided to just do the top of the front wings or blades, whatever their name is.
Not sharing the first version, they were too wide and looked a bit ugly because of it.



It still looks ugly like that with all the stepping, you have to imagine it real clean after milliput and sanding (yeah, I can't imagine it either...)




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Then I thought, if I have the front top, why not try the front bottom... even if it means drawing 240+ lines ... in a software that just slows down the more lines you have (and is already really slow at 40).

But I finally made it, and here's the printed result:

I broke most of the tiny bits though, so I've redesigned it a bit smarter, which will also make it much easier to attach to the top.



And here it is below the top, so the full left front of the tank.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Which brings us to about where I am, 20+ hours of 3D printing and 30+ hours of 3D modelling later, it's starting to look like it might look good some day:



And here it is for scale, it will be about 43cm long when finished, so I might've positioned a bit too far to the back here... I'll know when I'm done.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/01/02 18:15:47


 
   
Made in nl
Never Forget Isstvan!





The Netherlands

What software are you using there?

The Wars of Tusculum Nova - A Vanguard Miniatures fanblog 
   
Made in be
Been Around the Block





I've been using Autodesk Fusion 360 - because that's what a friend showed me


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've reworked the underside, it seemed way too blocky and was missing the signature features of Eldar tanks: the pipes ! (or whatever they're called)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/03 12:05:06


 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block






Cool, I'll be keeping an eye on this for sure!

Are you in the business of CAD modelling at all or is this something you picked up as part of the hobby? I would be interested in bringing some of my own ideas to life, but don't necessarily know where to start
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






This is a gigantic undertaking, curious what you end up with. Not a fan of the prism cannon, but I don't like it on the basic tank either

 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Striking Scorpion





Midlands, UK

I can see a lot of effort going into this. Looking good so far and I look forward to seeing more updates.

Also, 2 Scorpions, 2 Cobras and 8 Lynxes? Blimey, that's quite a collection!
   
Made in fi
Emboldened Warlock





Finland, Espoo

This will be interesting.

Always been interested about the idea of 3D modelling and printing some parts or models.
Looking forward to see the completed piece!

   
Made in be
Been Around the Block





Thanks for all the kind words

It is indeed a gigantic undertaking, I believe the gun only already took me 15 hours and some of it might need to be rescaled / redone entirely.

I've just picked this up recently as part of my interest in 3D printing, so I'm likely a bit slow at this stage, but working increasingly fast.

Some things however still completely seem out of reach, but that's probably because I'm only using some of the tools and not all of them.
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Striking Scorpion





Midlands, UK

Kanpeki Miniatures wrote:
Thanks for all the kind words

It is indeed a gigantic undertaking, I believe the gun only already took me 15 hours and some of it might need to be rescaled / redone entirely.

I've just picked this up recently as part of my interest in 3D printing, so I'm likely a bit slow at this stage, but working increasingly fast.

Some things however still completely seem out of reach, but that's probably because I'm only using some of the tools and not all of them.


Yeah, I can well imagine how long it will take - I've only really dabbled a bit in modelling and it seems to take forever even to do something simple. I've been contemplating getting a 3D printer, but the time investment I would want to put into designing items to print is one of the things that puts me off, especially given the learning curve to start with. My latest thought was that I could design an alternative turret for my Scorpion to turn it into a Void Spinner. A man can dream!
   
Made in be
Been Around the Block





 Bellerophon wrote:


Yeah, I can well imagine how long it will take - I've only really dabbled a bit in modelling and it seems to take forever even to do something simple. I've been contemplating getting a 3D printer, but the time investment I would want to put into designing items to print is one of the things that puts me off, especially given the learning curve to start with. My latest thought was that I could design an alternative turret for my Scorpion to turn it into a Void Spinner. A man can dream!


I think that you will need to learn a lot, just to be able to do some "basic" things, if we're talking Eldar.
Imperial is infinitely easier to model of course, it's only straight lines, a chamfer here and there, sprinkle some rivets and you're done.

I think the simplest way to make a Void Spinner would be to just acquire another Scorpion Turret and resculpt it with milliput.
That's somewhat on the same level of the mods I kind of had to do on the Vampire Hunter to make it look good, and it doesn't nearly take as much time or require as much experience as 3D modelling it:



You can see that I changed the shape of the cockpits, because one of them looked like someone just dropped a piece of Vyper in there.
I also added material to make the wings (they are different sizes...) link properly with the body, as inspired by Kris Belleau (Riders of the Cosmic Serpent).
Overall that implies just filling some space with milliput, sanding it until it has the shape you want, and tracing some Eldar ridges into the surface.
I think that tfor a Void Spinner, you need to start with one Scorpion turret and the guns from two night spinner kits, get the guns positioned on the turret, using pins and glue, then start rebuilding mass around that using milliput.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well it's been very hard these last two days, I don't feel like I'm making any real progress, even though I'm clearly learning a lot and the shape is improving: it's just that the end result still looks like a piece of crap.

I don't know why, but I guess it will start looking better when I work in the details, especially the little ridges commonly found on Eldar Tanks, as well as the reactor and bridge detail.

Right now, I'm playing with the idea of giving it four wings, to transition into this bigger class of Eldar Skimmers, which will include this one and its bigger brother.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/04 14:00:37


 
   
Made in nl
Never Forget Isstvan!





The Netherlands

Maybe have a chat with John from Vanguard Games to see if he could commission you to do some 6mm Eloi vehicles...

The Wars of Tusculum Nova - A Vanguard Miniatures fanblog 
   
Made in be
Been Around the Block





 Malika2 wrote:
Maybe have a chat with John from Vanguard Games to see if he could commission you to do some 6mm Eloi vehicles...


That seems like a nice idea, but honestly it's already an immense waste of resources to spend my time doing the modelling of my own tanks, which may never be even remotely financially sound even if people end up wanting to buy them from me.

This is more about me wanting to complete my collection with models that don't exist yet

For example, I plan to build 2x this super-super heavy tank, then move on to a super-super heavy flyer to overshadow the 2 Vampire Hunters, then probably a Warlord Class Eldar Titan to supervise the 2 Phantom Titans, then maybe a super-super-super heavy tank that will sort of complete my armored division.

For example, I already have another project where I'm 3D printing most of a Revenant Titan's head, which we're going to refine with milliput and stuff, and then recast in resin to replace the heads of the 4 Revenant Titans before painting them.

That said, at 6mm scale, if you want something to look good, it's worth using a 3rd party printing service or a resin printer to have a very high definition master from which to recast.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/04 19:10:20


 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Striking Scorpion





Midlands, UK

Kanpeki Miniatures wrote:
 Bellerophon wrote:


Yeah, I can well imagine how long it will take - I've only really dabbled a bit in modelling and it seems to take forever even to do something simple. I've been contemplating getting a 3D printer, but the time investment I would want to put into designing items to print is one of the things that puts me off, especially given the learning curve to start with. My latest thought was that I could design an alternative turret for my Scorpion to turn it into a Void Spinner. A man can dream!


I think that you will need to learn a lot, just to be able to do some "basic" things, if we're talking Eldar.
Imperial is infinitely easier to model of course, it's only straight lines, a chamfer here and there, sprinkle some rivets and you're done.

I think the simplest way to make a Void Spinner would be to just acquire another Scorpion Turret and resculpt it with milliput.
That's somewhat on the same level of the mods I kind of had to do on the Vampire Hunter to make it look good, and it doesn't nearly take as much time or require as much experience as 3D modelling it:


Indeed, I'm well aware of how time consuming it would be. That's why it's a vague idea in my head of "wouldn't it be cool if..." rather than something that I actually expect to do.

Anyway, the latest update - I'm not sure what to think about the extra 'wings'. I don't think they really work for me, probably because it's somewhat of a departure from most of the other Eldar designs that we've seen. I know they're only roughly blocked in at the moment, but even after they're detailed I think they might still give the impression of being tacked onto the tank as an afterthought rather than being an integral part of it.
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut




Innovation could be good, but it has to look at least as good as existing models and 100% in theme.
   
Made in nl
Never Forget Isstvan!





The Netherlands

Kanpeki Miniatures wrote:
 Malika2 wrote:
Maybe have a chat with John from Vanguard Games to see if he could commission you to do some 6mm Eloi vehicles...


That seems like a nice idea, but honestly it's already an immense waste of resources to spend my time doing the modelling of my own tanks, which may never be even remotely financially sound even if people end up wanting to buy them from me.

This is more about me wanting to complete my collection with models that don't exist yet

For example, I plan to build 2x this super-super heavy tank, then move on to a super-super heavy flyer to overshadow the 2 Vampire Hunters, then probably a Warlord Class Eldar Titan to supervise the 2 Phantom Titans, then maybe a super-super-super heavy tank that will sort of complete my armored division.

For example, I already have another project where I'm 3D printing most of a Revenant Titan's head, which we're going to refine with milliput and stuff, and then recast in resin to replace the heads of the 4 Revenant Titans before painting them.

That said, at 6mm scale, if you want something to look good, it's worth using a 3rd party printing service or a resin printer to have a very high definition master from which to recast.


I meant doing some 3mm, 6mm, and even space ship scale miniatures. Sell the .stl file to the producing company and let them then take care of printing and production.

The Wars of Tusculum Nova - A Vanguard Miniatures fanblog 
   
Made in be
Been Around the Block





 Bellerophon wrote:

Anyway, the latest update - I'm not sure what to think about the extra 'wings'. I don't think they really work for me, probably because it's somewhat of a departure from most of the other Eldar designs that we've seen. I know they're only roughly blocked in at the moment, but even after they're detailed I think they might still give the impression of being tacked onto the tank as an afterthought rather than being an integral part of it.


Yes... I see what you mean.

It seems clear at this point that there will be a lot of iterations before this tank's body look good - even though the front could pretty much be called done except for the gems.

I don't have a clear idea of how it should look like, so I'm just trying to iterate from what I have and try to get it to a point where it actually looks the part.

I've thought a bit about the "four wings" and I think they're already very present in Eldar design, from the Vampire Hunter which has two huge rear wings and two regular front wings, to the other FW designs with increasingly large rear fins.

I think it's more of a matter of making those rear wings look Eldarish so that the idea of having four wings can be judged alone.




I've put in some detail and it looks a lot less ugly already, probably decent enough that I can work on some other details of the model without being distracted by the broken bigger picture.

The ridges on the body are god awful, but it dawned on me that the ridges on the GW/FW designs are highlighting existing features, of which the current body had none - as it must first get its first and most important one: the command bridge.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Malika2 wrote:

I meant doing some 3mm, 6mm, and even space ship scale miniatures. Sell the .stl file to the producing company and let them then take care of printing and production.


That works too, but I doubt I could get paid half decently on design work.
I've already got a day job as IT consultant which doesn't pay half bad, and many more things on my plate, I don't think I'm efficient enough on 3D modelling to make it worth it.

For example, if I take all the time I will have spent on this tank design, at my regular daily rate, it will be in the vicinity of ten grand... I don't think anyone would ever consider paying that for just an STL made by some inexperienced 3D artist

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/05 16:16:43


 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block






I like the wings actually, it looks plausible, and quite Eldary, are they at a different height to the front 'spikes'? for lack of a better word (vanes? prongs? sticky outy bits?). That would look cool in my opinion, and would help it look a bit more natural. I would be wary that the angle of the curves are different though. I think they should mirror the front 'spikes'. I'm really not sure how to explain myself here. I might sketch you a diagram!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sorry for sketchy lines, my tablet is not set up for my screen dimensions, so it's really hard to draw a good line! The black is how I see the curvature of the wings at the moment, I think the angle should match the angle of the front 'spikes' or it loses some of the sleekness for me

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/05 18:23:30


 
   
Made in be
Been Around the Block





Interestingly enough, the side wings are exactly the same shape as the front wings up until the 4th side "ridge".

That said, they don't look nearly as long due to not having a straight line after the bend... or something.

But your design points to an interesting idea: longer wings... I was kind of afraid they would be too long already
   
Made in be
Been Around the Block





So I've played around with the idea of going for vampire wings, much closer to my favorite Eldar miniature, the Vampire Hunter.



I think the design does look more Eldar-ish, even if the size of the wings is clearly transitioning to high-altitude capable skimmer, much like the Lynx which fills the same "tank hunter" role.

What's become very clear is that I can't stand the body of the tank anymore, it just feels like a fat old brick, and no amount of Eldar design can fix that, so I'll need to get rid of it rather soon.

Still trying to innovate on the command deck, which makes me realize how unreasonable it is to want to innovate on all the fronts at once for my first 3D design...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a top view, because these perspective views tend to give the wrong idea about proportions:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/07 19:45:05


 
   
Made in nl
Never Forget Isstvan!





The Netherlands

That works too, but I doubt I could get paid half decently on design work.
I've already got a day job as IT consultant which doesn't pay half bad, and many more things on my plate, I don't think I'm efficient enough on 3D modelling to make it worth it.

For example, if I take all the time I will have spent on this tank design, at my regular daily rate, it will be in the vicinity of ten grand... I don't think anyone would ever consider paying that for just an STL made by some inexperienced 3D artist

Fair enough, hmm...otherwise just share the stl files with the community!

The Wars of Tusculum Nova - A Vanguard Miniatures fanblog 
   
Made in be
Been Around the Block





Not much time to put into this today, but I've redone the body and it's already looking a lot better.
I also scrapped the attempt of the external deck, it really never clicked.

   
Made in be
Been Around the Block





I haven't made any progress on the modelling in the last week, but I did print that front wing and spend 10 minutes sanding it with 120 grit then 400 grit.
Not much to sand really since it was done in 0.02mm adaptive layer height, but I wanted to see how much work it would be to get it to perfect finish - something which generally takes ages with resin, what with all the warping, and horrible surface finish we regularly get from FW.

So here are the pieces which are almost finished (missing gems and other small detail), prepped.



Despite the rugged look, they feel perfectly smooth to the touch, we'll see when they have primer all over.
   
Made in fi
Emboldened Warlock





Finland, Espoo

The Vampire wings look a lot better.

Don't sweat too much about innovating everything, most designs today are based on or have elements from something that already exists. Be it movies, games, 3D-models or miniatures.

You are doing a good job, keep it up.

   
Made in be
Been Around the Block





 Ezki wrote:
The Vampire wings look a lot better.

Don't sweat too much about innovating everything, most designs today are based on or have elements from something that already exists. Be it movies, games, 3D-models or miniatures.

You are doing a good job, keep it up.


Hello Ezki, thanks for your support

I took a look at your blog, lots of nice things there
   
Made in ch
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





Kanpeki Miniatures wrote:
So I've played around with the idea of going for vampire wings, much closer to my favorite Eldar miniature, the Vampire Hunter.



I think the design does look more Eldar-ish, even if the size of the wings is clearly transitioning to high-altitude capable skimmer, much like the Lynx which fills the same "tank hunter" role.

What's become very clear is that I can't stand the body of the tank anymore, it just feels like a fat old brick, and no amount of Eldar design can fix that, so I'll need to get rid of it rather soon.

Still trying to innovate on the command deck, which makes me realize how unreasonable it is to want to innovate on all the fronts at once for my first 3D design...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a top view, because these perspective views tend to give the wrong idea about proportions:



Nice, albeit i liked the older wings more for an eldar vehicle, these here just give me more drukhari vibes, probably because they seem more, i dunno Arrogant, aloof?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost.) 
   
Made in be
Been Around the Block





Here it is assembled and primed, not nearly as beautiful as I thought it would be - clearly for the real thing we'll be starting with a thin layer of white milliput before the sanding.



And the underside, which has received a lot less primer/filler.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not Online!!! wrote:

Nice, albeit i liked the older wings more for an eldar vehicle, these here just give me more drukhari vibes, probably because they seem more, i dunno Arrogant, aloof?


I see what you mean, the Vampire design are indeed a lot more aggressive in their curves, like the Drukhari, or the Crimson Hunter, or the rear fins on the FW designs.

It's kind of confusing because those are two very different aesthetics mixed in the Eldar designs already.

The first wings weren't bad but they had a problem with being round at the rear, which doesn't really match the other Eldar designs, which have more of an abrupt end towards the rear, and for all wings or rear fins, a concave rear arc - which is incidentally present on the Vampire wings.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/15 12:11:04


 
   
Made in au
Death-Dealing Ultramarine Devastator





Australia

Looks like a really interesting project, I'll be following along for sure! I'm not sure if you've come across Andrew Hicks' amazing Eldar models, he scratch built a super heavy flyer he named the 'Pegasus', might be some good inspiration.

For the details on the underside of the wings I would recommend printing them in two seperate sections; one for the base layer and another for the ridges. Otherwise it'll be a nightmare trying to get a smooth finish on those details.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/15 13:13:45


 
   
Made in ch
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





I see what you mean, the Vampire design are indeed a lot more aggressive in their curves, like the Drukhari, or the Crimson Hunter, or the rear fins on the FW designs.

It's kind of confusing because those are two very different aesthetics mixed in the Eldar designs already.

The first wings weren't bad but they had a problem with being round at the rear, which doesn't really match the other Eldar designs, which have more of an abrupt end towards the rear, and for all wings or rear fins, a concave rear arc - which is incidentally present on the Vampire wings.


To bad, still looks great.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost.) 
   
Made in be
Been Around the Block





 zahnib wrote:
Looks like a really interesting project, I'll be following along for sure! I'm not sure if you've come across Andrew Hicks' amazing Eldar models, he scratch built a super heavy flyer he named the 'Pegasus', might be some good inspiration.

For the details on the underside of the wings I would recommend printing them in two seperate sections; one for the base layer and another for the ridges. Otherwise it'll be a nightmare trying to get a smooth finish on those details.



I also thought about printing the underside in separate sections, but I believe just reassembling them would create yet another nightmare with all the tiny gaps to fill.

If ABS didn't warp so damn much, I could try something with acetone finish heavy on the deep part, then bond with the ridges with another 10 minutes... but then Acetone would probably ruin all the hard edges too.

It's that or the dreaded milliput everywhere and file between the ridges...



Yup, Andrew Hicks has been a definite inspiration for me too, over the years I've regularly come across his Pegasus - which definitely is the top scratch-built Eldar creation that could rival the FW designs.
Aside from some scratch-built Vampire Hunter somewhere which in the end looked easier to finish than building the actual kit (which is a true nightmare).

For example, when I wanted to pimp my Wraith Knights, he was one of the few who had attempted to change their dorsal spines to something actually Eldar-ish, i.e. predating all the newer Wraith kits.

Here's the one we made, without any 3D printing help unfortunately at the time, it was entirely sculpted and then cast in resin (and we sell them - shameless plug).
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/765707.page



Since I started considering modding existing designs, I've also done something to create a Type III Falcon chassis based on the existing Type II kit (which cannot be found outside of ebay unfortunately) with added rear wings like the Hornet, Lynx and Scorpion/Cobra chassis.



No other pictures since it hasn't been finished or fit (or cast) since the last changes, it's kind of low priority at the moment as it won't be painted for another 4 months at least.


And more recently, since I have 4 Revenant Titans waiting to be painted, we decided their heads were indeed too goddamn awful, and made a new one, the master will be printed tomorrow in high definition.








   
Made in ie
[DCM]
Agile Revenant Titan





London, UK

Been following this with interest, your tank looks great, although I feel the outer wings make it a bit too flyerish rather than a grav tank. Great to see you printing it off too, would love to see it painted!

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