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Hello! I'd like to show you my AdMech killteam and use this as a sort of discussion/C&C thread.

CURRENT STATE:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
++ Leader ++
Infiltrator Princeps - Powersword and Stubcarbine [15] - Either going for an outflank or intercepting enemies in close combat, or both.

++ Specialists ++
+ Comms +
Skitarii Vanguard - Radium Carbine [9] - Usually near Plasma Gunner to provide support

+ Sniper +
Skitarii Vanguard - Plasma Caliver [13]

+ Scout +
Skitarii Vanguard - Radium Carbine [9] - Free for specialised assignment or replacement. Maybe useful for supporting the Princeps?

+ Heavy +
UR-025 - Assault Cannon and Power Claw - [30]

++ Non-specialists ++
+ Ranger Fire Team +
Ranger - Galvanic Rifle and Omnispex [10] - Used to provide cover denial for Arquebus, now free for specialised assignment or replacement.

+ Vanguard Fire Team +
Vanguard - Radium Carbine and Omnispex [10] - Usually provides cover denial for Plasma Gunner or other team-mates.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm kinda not sure what to do with the scout specialist. He seems bit abundant to me, but I'm not sure with which I'd replace him.
What do you think of this list? What would you change/replace? Proven to be quite effective for me so far. I go mostly against Marines of all kinds.

Last game against Death Guard was a clear game, not a single casualty, just a couple of wounds on my side and enemy got wiped off the board.
Plasma Gunner alone killed 2 and UR killed enemy leader in close combat after getting charged and passing two 6+ armour saves.



IDEA FOR FUTURE:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
97/100 - 3 points left
++ Leader ++
Ranger - Galvanic Rifle [9] - Will camp in the back behind cover

++ Specialists ++
+ Comms +
Skitarii Vanguard - Radium Carbine [10] - Provide Plasma gunner with support

+ Sniper +
Skitarii Vanguard - Plasma Caliver [13]

+ Combat +
Infiltrator Princeps - Powersword and Stubcarbine [15] - Outflank and close combat

+ Heavy +
UR-025 - Assault Cannon and Power Claw - [30] - Tank

++ Non-specialists ++
+ Ranger Fire Team +
Ranger - Arc Rifle [10] - Fool around and fry enemies with electricity

+ Vanguard Fire Team +
Vanguard - Radium Carbine, Omnispex [10] - Fool around and provide cover denial from the front or provide support to the Infiltrator

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can have 2 Omnispexes when I drop the Arc rifle, Transuranic Acquebus if I drop all omnispexes or enhanced data tether. What is better in general?

I don't really play Admech in Kill team, but I tend to play them quite a bit. So I am fairly familiar with what they can bring and how a couple of player use them. That said, my Chaos Space Marines have never come anywhere close to winning against them.

I wouldn't have your Infiltrator be your leader specialist. I think the Infiltrator would serve you better as either a Combat or Veteran instead. Sure, Infiltrators have two wounds, but given that Kill Team already rewards multi-damage weapons regardless of the number of wounds the target has, you could find yourself without a leader fairly quickly trying to get them into position.

I would suggest maybe a Vanguard Alpha with phosphorus pistol and taser goad as your Leader. They aren't as tough, but work decently to follow up something that has already charged in to attack an isolated unit.

The comms is good. Probably a good idea to not have them be your onispex wielder too. Between the omnispex, comms and canticles you have bunch ways to buff and spreading it out is probably is best. Speaking of omnispex, if you plan on getting more Skitarii, I would suggest a ranger with an omnispex. I have been really impressed by the onispex and since Rangers are a separate datasheet you can have two.

Your sniper is a good choice as well since you can overcharge with some safety. The Plasma Caliver is a great weapon in Kill Team, it is kinda crazy to think Admech could potentially have 6 of them.

I would change out the Scout for a Combat or Veteran infiltrator instead. You could even consider a Zealot, but I personally like the Combat specialist more.

I think you are on the right path going largely Vanguard. Kill Team boards aren't that big and can be terrain heavy making longer range weapons not as useful. Radium Carbines allow heavier weight of fire and vanguards weaken CQC enemies making them a much more attractive option.

I can't say anything for or against the Man of Iron. I have't seen it in action.

The Arquebus is an okay weapon in Kill Team and is largely dependent on the terrain setup. While a lot of kill teams would like such a weapon, Admech have so many good things to pick from it makes it hard to include.

Honestly, it doesn't take all that much to do well with Admech in Kill Team. They are cheap enough to field a decent sized force and can fit more weapons and war gear than they know what to do with. Add the fact that they also get Canticles to further control of the battlefield, it is easy to see why they are one of teir upper tier kill teams.

If you want an Arquebus, I would give the omnispex to your comms specialist and park them together. Then you could get rid of the omnispex guy and try to put in at least another arc rifle gunner if not a second plasma caliver. In any case, I would definitely prioritize putting in as many gunners as possible instead of having multiple normal Rangers and vanguards with redundant roles. I also disagree with Saturmorn about the leader - you've made the right choice with a galvanic rifle Ranger leader because you want to keep him in the back away from threats. A vanguard leader with close combat weapons is going to get smoked pretty quickly.

Scout is a complete waste of a specialist.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Scout is a complete waste of a specialist.

Agreed, especially on a stock vanguard. I have an Ad Mech Kill Team and I personally only bring regular rangers and vanguards if I absolutely can't afford the points to put in some type of gunner (preferably a plasma caliver) or a Sicarian.

When I make a list I basically go with a flow chart. If I am going to focus on bringing multiple Sicarians I'll make sure to add a comms specialist with data tether; if I'm trying to maximize ranged firepower I'll bring a comms specialist with an omnispex instead. Regardless I will then try to fit in as many plasma calivers as possible and make the first one a sniper specialist, the second heavy etc. If I don't have enough points for another plasma caliver I'll go with an arc rifle because it's worth the 1 point over a regular Skitarii, and if I absolutely don't have the points for anything else I'll put in a regular vanguard or ranger.

As far as UR-25 goes, he is very hard to kill, so he's good at sitting on an objective and being a nuisance. He is pretty decent all around but he's also very expensive. Recently I have taken to taking two Sicarians instead of him.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Scout is a complete waste of a specialist.

I know, I was just trying it for a game or two. Didn't prove very effective. Quite the opposite.
Next game I'll use the second list, with Infiltrator as a combat specialist. Possibly in our little campaign too.

Is worth taking another Omnispex instead of the Arc Rifle or not?

No, definitely not.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is what I would go with:

Ranger Leader
UR-25
Sicarian Infiltrator - Combat
Vanguard Gunner, Plasma Caliver - Sniper
Vanguard Gunner, Plasma Caliver - Veteran
Vanguard, Omnispex - Comms
Vanguard Gunner, Arc Rifle

 Luciferian wrote:
No, definitely not.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is what I would go with:

Ranger Leader
UR-25
Sicarian Infiltrator - Combat
Vanguard Gunner, Plasma Caliver - Sniper
Vanguard Gunner, Plasma Caliver - Veteran
Vanguard, Omnispex - Comms
Vanguard Gunner, Arc Rifle

That's four specialists, you can have only 3 (4, including the Leader)
UR-025 is kind of an exception. He has fixed Heavy specialist that doesn't count towards the original limit but if you take it, you can't take another Heavy, as you have this one already occupied.

Just reread my list and you're right, I'd drop the Veteran specialism.

 Luciferian wrote:
If you want an Arquebus, I would give the omnispex to your comms specialist and park them together. Then you could get rid of the omnispex guy and try to put in at least another arc rifle gunner if not a second plasma caliver. In any case, I would definitely prioritize putting in as many gunners as possible instead of having multiple normal Rangers and vanguards with redundant roles. I also disagree with Saturmorn about the leader - you've made the right choice with a galvanic rifle Ranger leader because you want to keep him in the back away from threats. A vanguard leader with close combat weapons is going to get smoked pretty quickly.

I am not saying the Alpha needs to be a front line melee fighter. That is a horrible use of him. He works best as a back up charger to prevent pistol use or help mop up tarpit-like fights on the team's gunners or doing nothing at all. Most of the time the Alpha just hide out of LoS generating that CP but ready to be of some use for mid-game/late-game kinda stuff. The Galvanic Rifle saves a point but exposes the leader to being shot, even if they are 6s, if they want to make use of it. You could have an Ominspex with them to make them a little better but that is keeping at least 2 members in the back line of a kill team of about 7 models. Or like I said, they are just hiding so it really doesn't matter what they are armed with unless you need that last point.

I would rather sneak the alpha to the mid board area (assuming the mission is some sort of area control type mission) where they can support trouble areas instead of getting a couple of fairly weak shots off. If they get killed, chances are they already generated enough CPs to keep the team going or you have already lost. Many times Low level Leader specialist isn't that necessary to keep alive after about 3 rounds. I am not saying put them in dangerous situations, just that their weapons can be far more useful that their specialist abilities at that point. Unless the mission is to keep from breaking in which most boards have enough hiding spots it doesn't matter. At least until a melee-focused enemy can get into Charge range where you want to have a decent weapon to maybe make your opponent regret getting into close combat.

Again, the only reason I really woun't go that route is if you can't spare the point for the goad. Even then, I would consider some other pistol/melee combo over a simple rifle. I do agree that Admech should, in general, load up with gunners and omnispex though.

Gotcha. My philosophy for teams like this is usually to take the cheapest leader possible and use them as a pure CP battery, saving the points for the best gun I can take on someone else. Like I said earlier, I usually try to take as many plasma calivers as possible with ad mech so that takes priority. In the list I posted above you could lose the arc rifle and take a normal vanguard so that you could give the alpha a taser goad, but I'd see much more use out of the arc rifle than the goad.

 Luciferian wrote:
Gotcha. My philosophy for teams like this is usually to take the cheapest leader possible and use them as a pure CP battery, saving the points for the best gun I can take on someone else. Like I said earlier, I usually try to take as many plasma calivers as possible with ad mech so that takes priority. In the list I posted above you could lose the arc rifle and take a normal vanguard so that you could give the alpha a taser goad, but I'd see much more use out of the arc rifle than the goad.

You're not alone in that Leader strategy. If I was smart, I would do the same thing with my Chaos Space Marines. I just can't see any of my marines doing such a thing as listening to a meat shield though. This has allowed me greater understanding in how many other players view Leaders in Kill Team. It could be I don't really have much to spend CPs after Beseech the Dark Gods anyways, but I found that I could actually pull opponents out of position by baiting them with my Leader. If I did lose him early game, it was the loss of his plasma pistol and power sword I felt far more than I did as an actual Leader abilities. By the time I loss enough models to trigger a break test that additional point of Leadership wasn't really helping me. Not to mention, most games by the time a break test was triggered my kill team had already failed the mission so it just added insult to injury at that point. Well if my kill team failed break tests. They can't seem to shoot or fight, but man can they melt themselves with plasma and pass Leadership checks (I roll more ones than binary).

Back to your point, I saw what you were doing and for the Admech and I agree with the rest of it. I found that my Admech kill teams tend to have uneven points to afford the goad which I would rather have since it provides your leader some protection should your opponent find away to them. Again, I totally agree on taking lots of plasma calivers. As a player that can only have 4 special weapons total with one being a heavy bolter and two on very squishy models, I think it is kinda insane that Admech could have 6 of them. The biggest weakness they have is their range which again is why I suggest a melee Alpha that gives the player the option to help peel a CQC fighter off them if you really need to. But you are right. If you need that point for a gunner special weapon, I would not take the goad. I would still think about taking a pistol and melee weapon combination with the plan of leader being sort of 'last resort' close range support/charger self-protection. Becuase if they are just going to hide in the backline it really doesn't matter what they have, but I think pistol/melee offer more options if you do need that model to do something.

With MEQ teams leaders have a lot more flexibility. It makes a lot more sense to have a plasma pistol/power sword leader like your Chaos Champion, especially since he's so much more survivable. My Death Guard Champion is super expensive, with a power fist and plasma gun. I would be much less reticent to put him in close combat, especially since he's equally as likely to kill whatever he's fighting as being taken out himself. And when you only have so many models that can take special weapons you kind of have no choice but to load up on everything you can.

I just have a much more cautious approach with GEQ team leaders. Most of my teams can insta-kill almost anything in close combat so I've learned from playing against my own lists with friends that having a T3 leader with a 4+ or 5+ save in combat against high strength, high AP, multiple damage weapons means they are pretty much guaranteed to die in one round of combat.

Apologies if I parrot some of the things said above.

I agree that vanilla rangers or vanguard are near useless, except to hold an omnispex. That said, I don't think the omnispex is all that awesome-it helps for a point sure, but I don't know if having to take a vanilla ranger or vanguard is worth it.

Although identical in statline and points, vanguards are always a better buy for rad saturation alone. In the off chance you survive a charge, it is a glimmer of hope that your one attack back has a better chance of wounding. Since most enemies in kill team are T3 or T4, it pops. Radium carbines are shorter range, but the extra shot at range and ability to get a lucky 3 wound instakill shot beats out the long range potential -1AP crap. Plus it is assault, so you can advance and pop off rounds.

Your ranger alpha is 10 points, not 9. I agree in hiding your leader, but take a vanguard alpha. If they are both hiding, rad saturation gives you a glimmer of hope should you get charged and in the off chance they can overwatch, 3 shots are better than 2. I will say I think a vanguard alpha with an arc pistol and power sword is a decent kit for a leader as a charge deterrent and strong counterpunch should they survive. The S6 pistol is no joke either.

Although plasma cav's and plasma in general is the cat's meow, the humble arc rifle is always worth looking at if you need cheap specialists. S6 AP-1 is something few armies can ignore. I personally like these more than an omnispex, but YMMV.

Zealot is an equally valid option on the infiltrator princeps as is combat, if you plan on being more aggressive and charging enemies.

Thank you all for your input. Considering all your comments, I fabricated 2 lists that I'll test and eventually enter a local tournament with.

98/100 - 2 points left
++ Leader ++
Vanguard Alpha - Arc Pistol, Taser Goad [11]

++ Specialists ++
+ Comms +
Skitarii Vanguard - Radium Carbine [10]

+ Sniper +
Skitarii Vanguard - Plasma Caliver [13]

+ Combat +
Infiltrator Princeps - Powersword and Stubcarbine [15]

+ Heavy +
UR-025 - Assault Cannon and Power Claw - [30]

++ Non-specialists ++
+ Ranger Fire Team +
Ranger - Arc Rifle [10]

+ Vanguard Fire Team +
Vanguard - Radium Carbine, Omnispex [10]

+++++


Here is the second one, if UR-025 was not allowed.

95/100 - 5 points left
++ Leader ++
Vanguard Alpha - Arc Pistol, Taser Goad [11]

++ Specialists ++
+ Comms +
Skitarii Vanguard - Radium Carbine [10]

+ Sniper +
Skitarii Vanguard - Plasma Caliver [13]

+ Combat +
Infiltrator Princeps - Powersword and Stubcarbine [15]

++ Non-specialists ++
+ Ranger Fire Team +
Ranger - Galvanic Rifle [9]
Ranger - Galvanic Rifle [9]

+ Vanguard Fire Team +
Vanguard Gunner - Arc Rifle [10]
Vanguard - Radium Carbine, Omnispex [10]
Vanguard - Radium Carbine [9]

+++++
I could either buy a non-speciallist Arquebus, an Omnispex, or a Data-Tether. I'd still like to keep a Ranger or two to provide some long range fire support or to camp at objectives while the rest of the team advances. I can't take another Caliver as I'm limited by wysiwyg, and I lack those bits, unfortunately, but I can build another Arc Rifle model.

Again, I think it's redundant to have both a regular vanguard comms specialist and a regular vanguard with an omnispex. I really can't stress how much more worthwhile gunners are even if you can only give them arc rifles. Just my advice.

Second luciferian about having another arc rifle. You can always move the omnispex onto your comms specialist, freeing up a vanilla vanguard/ranger to carry the rifle. IMO if you want rifles to hang back and camp objectives the arc rifle is better than the galvanic-higher strength and guaranteed AP win out over 6" extra range.

I am not a fan of the arquebus. The mortal wound forgoes the remaining wounds if that removes the model's last wound, and then you don't get the d3 damage roll. Only ap-2 means that MEQ still have a save against it. It is a lot of points on a cheap model that basically needs a specialist, or at least a comms/omnispex buffing it, and it lives or dies by initial position. Against certain lists(Tyranids) it hits like a freight train, but it is near uselss otherwise. It is also an incredibly expensive and dangerous target, meaning it will probably die fast.

If you are going to camp a vanilla rifle in the backline, the enhanced data tether makes since. L6 can reasonably fail with a few models out of action, and the tether does make the doctrina tactics fairly viable.

Data tether + doctrina tactics can be really cool if you build your list around it. A Zealot Infiltrator Princeps can do an absurd amount of hits with a taser goad that way.

Ok, I'll take the Arc Rifle instead. It's AP-1 will provide bonus against Thousand Sons, against whom I often play.

Arquebus is not bad per se, I had some good moments with it on sniper specialist. It's situational, yes, but if it camps in cover with good view, it works as a psychological tool, players tend to avoid it and be more cautious about being out of it's LOS. It also work as a fire magnet, and against Tau, it's excellent as a counter-sniping weapon. Give it a couple of buffs (omnispex and comms or stratagem) and you hit and wound on 2s. And with range of 60", enjoy shooting campers across the whole battlefield.
Against Marines though... Yeah.

In my opinion, the worst thing about the Arquebus is that in order to use it to its potential you have to keep it and a comms specialist with an omnispex permanently parked somewhere for the whole game. That's a 25 point investment for a weapon that will be able to hit basically anything on the board, but as you implied, will not cause reliable wounds to something with a decent save. It's pretty one dimensional, though definitely cool.

Also note that the comms and omnispex buffs do not affect wound rolls, only hit and injury rolls. So you're still wounding MEQ on 3 at best in most situations.

I may add it as a non-specialist model on a campaign, once the point limit gets higher. It would be effective as a situational support against non-marine teams. Despite it is not a good weapon, it's still a good psychological tool.

I tried the kill team disposition we discussed here and... well... Played 3 games, got 3 wins. Two were decisive, one was quite close. Necrons are more resilient than I thought.
So: insights from the last couple of matches.

UR-025 is unstoppable if the team lacks any high-S high-AP weapons, such as Plasmas or Meltas or does not concentrate high amount of firepower against it, and the self-repair system is ideal to induce either immense rage or feeling of hopelessness in the opponent's mind. Both outcomes are actually desirable. The fact it looks scary and attracts a lot of firepower that just bounces off helps with the aforementioned phenomenon.

Ignoring Plasma gunner supported by Comms specialist nothing less than a one-way ticket to the cemetery for the opposing team

Infiltrator Princeps combat specialist with power sword is capable of slicing through marines like nothing, usually not giving them much chance of retaliation.

Glad it is working out for you. Yeah, Necrons require you to get right up on them to try and get rid of the cover Injury Roll bonus. The robo-skeletons also make d6 damage weapons a bit less useful since it is so easy to get a six mixed in there. I found the trick with Necrons is to tar pit them in close combat and use superior numbers to accomplish the mission objectives. Works fine with MEQs like my CSM for my friends Scouts, but I am not so sure Admech would have the same luck with that tactic.

Between Admech and Death Watch, I don't which kill team is a faster express pain train. I am seeing a lot more Death Watch teams out there. I suppose that could just be the fact that the Kill Team big starter box is opp and/or Death Watch fairly cheap and easy to get ready for the tabletop.

Skitarii warrioirs are kinda squishy (T3) and not very not very good in close combat (WS4+) either and with the cost of 9+ points per model, the numerical advantage isn't that great.

Ruststalkers and Infiltrators are not bad though. My infiltrator put up a hell of a fight before it was killed. The enemy was also incredibly lucky with his injury and reanimation rolls.

I'll dump the Arc Rifle Gunner and with the 5 spare points I'll buy an Omnispex and a lvl 2 advance for the UR-025. Overwhelming firepower and Suppresor looks juicy, especially when combined.

100/100
++ Leader ++
Ranger Alpha - Galvanic Rifle [10]

++ Specialists ++
+ Comms +
Skitarii Vanguard - Radium Carbine [10]

+ Sniper +
Skitarii Vanguard - Plasma Caliver [13]

+ Combat +
Infiltrator Princeps - Powersword and Stubcarbine [15]

+ Heavy +
UR-025 - Assault Cannon and Power Claw + lvl 2 (Suppressor) - [34]

++ Non-specialists ++
+ Vanguard Fire Team +
Vanguard - Radium Carbine, Omnispex [10]
Vanguard - Radium Carbine [19]

That list only has one more model than my usual Death Guard and Astartes teams, both of which feature high AP, multiple damage weapons and 3+ saves on nearly every model. If you play it against a Death Guard or Deathwatch team I'd be interested to hear the results.

I once played against a Death Guard and had a clean game. Enemy team wiped out without a single casualty on my side, but he was a first-time player (kill team-wise, we play regular games each other very often).