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Hi guys,

So this is my revised Emperor’s Children list:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [66 PL, 1231pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Gifts of Chaos (1 Relic)

Legion: Emperor's Children

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour [6 PL, 110pts]: Combi-plasma, Mark of Slaanesh, Power sword, The Murder Sword

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [8 PL, 112pts]: Combi-bolter, Death Hex, Diabolic Strength, Force sword, Mark of Slaanesh

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 50pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Slaanesh
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 50pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Slaanesh
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Noise Marines [19 PL, 435pts]: Icon of Excess
. 2x Marine w/ Blastmaster: 2x Blastmaster
. 17x Marine w/ Sonic blaster: 17x Sonic Blaster
. Noise Champion: Doom siren, Plasma pistol, Sonic blaster

+ Heavy Support +

Chaos Predator [9 PL, 158pts]: Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher, Mark of Slaanesh, Predator autocannon
. Two heavy bolters: 2x Heavy bolter

Chaos Predator [9 PL, 158pts]: Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher, Mark of Slaanesh, Predator autocannon
. Two heavy bolters: 2x Heavy bolter

Chaos Predator [9 PL, 158pts]: Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher, Mark of Slaanesh, Predator autocannon
. Two heavy bolters: 2x Heavy bolter

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [39 PL, 768pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Emperor's Children

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince with Wings [9 PL, 183pts]: Intoxicating Elixir, Malefic talon, Stimulated By Pain, Warlord, Warp bolter
. Slaanesh: Warptime

+ Heavy Support +

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, 3x Obliterator

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, 3x Obliterator

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, 3x Obliterator

++ Total: [105 PL, 1999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

The idea is that the noise marines and dakkapreds clear the chaff on turn one, then on turn two the obliterators come down and light things up.

Comments and criticisms welcome!

Have you tested 1x20 NMs over, say, 2x10 or 3x6 or is this still currently theoryhammer?

I can't think of a single reason to take them as 1x20, is why I ask.

Theoryhammer. I am a noob. I thought of taking 20 to benefit from DP re-rolls, endless cacophony and veterans of the long war.

The problem is that a lot of lists won't struggle (at all) to simply delete a single 20W unit in one shooting phase, whereas it is more difficult (though still not very difficult) to wipe out 2x10W units or 3x6W units.

And that one unit is nearly a quarter of your points.

The current received wisdom on CSM is that the only Troops worth taking are Cultists. For the same price as you're paying for 1x20 1W NM, you can take 3x30 1W Cultists.

I thought noise marines were still considered decent.

Surely 3x30 cultists wouldn’t be as killy and noise marines get to fire even when they die?

It's not an opinion I see bandied around much (though my CSM never leave home without 3x6 NMs).

A Cultist's individual offensive output isn't as good as an individual NM's, nor is a Cultist's defence as good as a NM's, however 90 Cultists outperform 20 NMs offensively, can take more damage and remain standing - and cost pretty much the same.

What's your intention? Are you going to be playing tournaments or is this list more for beer and pretzels friendhammer?

I take NMs because of fluff and because I don't want to have to paint 90+ Cultists so for me the trade-off in relative power is worth it.

Well I would like to give more tournaments a go, but it will mainly be against friends.

How do 90 cultists outperform 20 noise marines offensively? By my mathhammering, the only way cultists outperform noise marines offensively is if they are all within rapid fire range against the same t5 or lower unit at the exact right time (which won’t be the case on turn one, which is when you want to clear screens) and you don’t let the noise marines use stratagems. Endless cacophony alone effectively turns this into 90 cultists vs 40 NMs.

More than happy to be wrong as I currently only own ten noise marine models and if this is the prevailing opinion on the tournament scene (and you are a seasoned EC player) then I dare say I’m missing something. I can see cultists helping with board control more than noise marines, lasting longer and unlocking extra battalion detachments, but that’s about it.

I'm not a seasoned-player of anything, full disclosure. I've been playing EC for three years now, but I don't play often and never in competitive metas.

Perhaps I have over-egged the pudding regarding Cultists v NM offense. I'm not home so I didn't run numbers myself and was relying on a half-remembered conversation in another thread. Mea culpa. I'll see if I can find that thread.

If your main aim is beerhammer with the occasional tourney (and you don't overly care about crushing your enemies, driving them before you and hearing the lamentations of their women), I'd go with your OP list. You can always refine it later if you get more heavily into the competitive scene..

By all means if that thread proves me wrong then I’ll check it out and take it on board. Cheers for feedback!

 Krusha wrote:
Well I would like to give more tournaments a go, but it will mainly be against friends.

How do 90 cultists outperform 20 noise marines offensively? By my mathhammering, the only way cultists outperform noise marines offensively is if they are all within rapid fire range against the same t5 or lower unit at the exact right time (which won’t be the case on turn one, which is when you want to clear screens) and you don’t let the noise marines use stratagems. Endless cacophony alone effectively turns this into 90 cultists vs 40 NMs.

More than happy to be wrong as I currently only own ten noise marine models and if this is the prevailing opinion on the tournament scene (and you are a seasoned EC player) then I dare say I’m missing something. I can see cultists helping with board control more than noise marines, lasting longer and unlocking extra battalion detachments, but that’s about it.

2 reasons

A: Tide of traitor shenanigans, yes that is a 4 cp investment, yes it hurts, yes Votwl is also great on s3 autoguns.

Secondly, you can fill your detachments very very easy with cultists as to say marines.

HOWEVER, the good news is, that you could take your 20 noise blob, cut it into 2 x5 (6 if you feel like lore) and use the other 10 noise marine pts in a 40 strong cultist blob.

That way you get the full advantage, still aren't hit as hard by wiping since the nm are now so small that they are not anymore considered a threat, therefore they survive a tad longer whilest you now also have the 40 man screening blob of surprise doom if need be.

Edit; predators are something i would not touch with a 10 inch pole atm, (get yourself some sonic dreadnoughts, cheaper and more effective for the points)

Wholeheartedly agree on sonic dreadnoughts, and in dreadclaws, which got cheaper. Dreadclaws are CSMs best transport I think and don't get slower upon damage, and can fly 15", great for absorbing overwatch after the whatevers disembark.

Slaanesh cultists would represent a great modeling opportunity for strange feats and assemblages of flesh. I'm thinking back to Angel Exterminatus when the parade arrives at Perturabo's fortress with Fulgrim.

Check out Manufaktura's s minis, also.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/707514.page

 Malathrim wrote:
Wholeheartedly agree on sonic dreadnoughts, and in dreadclaws, which got cheaper. Dreadclaws are CSMs best transport I think and don't get slower upon damage, and can fly 15", great for absorbing overwatch after the whatevers disembark.

Slaanesh cultists would represent a great modeling opportunity for strange feats and assemblages of flesh. I'm thinking back to Angel Exterminatus when the parade arrives at Perturabo's fortress with Fulgrim.

I use house escher gangers as Slaanesh Cultists. Works pretty well, and gives a nice feel to the army. I don't run very many of them though. I also agree heavily with the Sonic Dreads. They are one of the better Dread options in the game right now, and with the CA 2018 price hikes are very modestly priced.

I tend to run my Noise Marines in blocks of 10 these days. 10 is the number you need to field 2 Blast Masters. 10 is also slightly more efficient than 5 or 6 for purposes of Endless Cacophony and Veterans of the long war, but even then those are in hot demand by my Obliterators, Bikers and Raptors. Remember, even though you are playing EC that doesn't mean your army needs to be mostly Noise Marines. I field usually between 15-20 Noise Marines, 10 kitted with sonic weapons and 5-10 kitted for melee. My third troop choice is a block of 10 cultists. the rest of my points go into things like Bikers, Daemon Engines, Obliterators, etc. It still feels like an EC army, and it fits in more things that I enjoy. The Noise Marines are still a big part of the list, and I don't usually wish I had 20-30 more of them on the table.