Switch Theme:

Inside Games Workshop  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

https://www.creativebloq.com/features/inside-games-workshop?fbclid=IwAR3U3rvDWh4yPLwYII96gK05UdwzFKBd9ZkQrHWwhKwi418_fMGVQTXa5zY



Founded in London in 1975, Games Workshop has grown into a very big business. The firm best known for tabletop strategy games like Warhammer: Age of Sigmar and Warhammer 40,000 recorded a £1 billion market value during June 2018, and expects its profits to double this year.

That’s due, in part, to the hard work and commitment of its dozens of talented artists. But that doesn’t mean it’s a stressful studio with constant deadlines to meet. “The environment is really informal, really relaxed,” says Dave Ferri, a concept artist who’s been with the company, now based in Nottingham, for about two and a half years. “It’s a very friendly atmosphere here.”

Ferri works with two other concept artists, John Blanche and Tom Harrison, to create the 2D illustrations that inspire the digital 3D art sculptors – 29 of them in total – who lovingly craft and produce the figurines. And there’s always work to do, says design manager Sam Dinwiddy, because the company is constantly developing new lines and doesn’t want to rest on its laurels.

“We’re always looking to excite our customers with something new,” Dinwiddy says. “We don’t just want to run through the list of ranges and update them all. That wouldn’t excite anybody. So we need to create stuff that’s unexpected, but still steeped in Games Workshop’s heritage.”

That creation process often starts with a simple sketch, says John Blanche, who first began freelancing for Games Workshop in 1977 and went on to spend three decades as its art director.

“Sometimes the designers like the sketch so much, they’ll actually make an image of it, but that’s unusual. I’m opening the doors up for sculptors to go: ‘Oh yeah, we could do that.’ It gives them a route to go forward.”

While Blanche works with physical inks and paints, Ferri creates most of his work in Photoshop CC on a Cintiq. “But the medium itself isn’t important,” says Ferri. “At the end of the day, the idea is what matters.”

Typically, that design gets passed back and forth between concept artists and product designers in a process of re-invention and refinement. “It’s very organic and collaborative,” says Blanche. “We’re led by enthusiasm and deep understanding of each others’ backgrounds; it’s like one big family.”

Open and willing attitude
There are no ‘silos’ at Games Workshop, adds senior designer Seb Perbet. “One of the things that surprised me most was how open and willing people were to share their knowledge. I think it comes from the fact that we love this job and like talking about it.”

For the digital sculptors, Perbet explains, developing the miniatures is not just a technical challenge but a creative one, too. “I think the best product designers don’t separate these two aspects: the creative mind is the one suited to solving the hardest technical problems. So for me it’s hard to distinguish between the two, because as I’m sculpting I’m deciding what it is I want and how it’ll be manufactured at the same time.”

Even the 2D concept art needs to be approached with the physical end goal in mind. As Ferri points out, “These products are physically very small, and you can’t get a lot of detail in there. So our concept art needs to be bold and graphic, and most importantly, based on strong shapes."

Balancing the details
“That’s the hardest part: taking away the tendency to draw too much and strip it down,” Ferri continues. “You need to make the shapes interesting, because that’s where the product will succeed. So it’s important when you’re drawing something to stand back a few feet and have a look. Can you still see the details? Does it still read as you wanted it to? If not, you’ve probably made it over-complicated.”

And if you’re a fan of Games Workshop yourself, then here’s some good news: the company’s hiring. “Finding good artists is difficult, because it’s so niche,” says Dinwiddy. “So we’ll always look at portfolios and we’ll always listen to people; the only thing that we can’t guarantee is a job at the end of it.”

There’s no particular qualification or software skill that you need to have, Dinwiddy adds. “It’s literally just: do you have an affinity with sci-fi and fantasy? Can you generate fantastic, original and unique ideas quickly and consistently, in high quality? And do you have the passion to develop new IP for a niche business?”

If the answer to all those questions is yes, then you may get the chance to work in an environment where artists are constantly brimming with enthusiasm. “There’s always a good buzz in the studio, and we’re all really excited when new models come out,” says Dinwiddy. “I still get that ‘I want these!’ feeling, like I’m a little kid all over again.”

This article was originally published in ImagineFX, the world's best-selling magazine for digital artists. Buy issue 166 or subscribe.



there's some pictures of concept art through the link as well as..

https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/V3vLsshLA9rm8xAnjfMqF7.jpg

which I'm sure no one at all will open as a larger image and spend far too long fruitlessly staring at the minis on display in case there's anything we haven't seen.

no siree.


The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in us
Ambitious Acothyst With Agonizer




Boston, MA

 reds8n wrote:




“We don’t just want to run through the list of ranges and update them all. That wouldn’t excite anybody.



An interesting article, but this quote made me pretty sad. Guess I'm nobody!

Kabal of the Slit Throat ~2000pts
Elect of the Plaguefather 4500pts

 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

*cries in aspect warrior and phoenix lord*

So much for that.

From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







 eohall wrote:
 reds8n wrote:

“We don’t just want to run through the list of ranges and update them all. That wouldn’t excite anybody.



An interesting article, but this quote made me pretty sad. Guess I'm nobody!


Yeah, I'm fairly sure a lot of the feedback when they did that survey last year would have been "Please update range/kit X/Y", so this seems an odd statement to make.

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Nice article. I had no idea John Blanche was the AD at GW for the past 3 decades. That explains a lot!

--- 
   
Made in us
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot






 Dysartes wrote:
Yeah, I'm fairly sure a lot of the feedback when they did that survey last year would have been "Please update range/kit X/Y", so this seems an odd statement to make.


The only way I can really make sense of their statement is something along the lines that they think that, for example, if they were to overhaul all Necrons, there is a fair proportion of players who would say "I don't like the new sculpts" or "my old ones are still good" or "I still don't want to play this army" and lastly, of course, people who will pick up the army now. If they release new units, well, anyone who plays that army is more likely to buy it, because they don't have one already. And a new unit might convince people to buy into the army. People who don't want to play it still won't, but you've cut out the "my old ones are still good" demographic.

Now, how representative of the actual population of players are these groups? I have no idea. I don't think it's actually knowable, honestly. I think, though, this is why there is the whole Primaris thing going on. They feel they had to release to the new models with new rules or there would not be "sufficient" incentive for players to basically just buy Marines again. This is also likely why they felt the "story" needed to move ahead, to explain why there were two sorts of Marines.

I think though, that what they should do though is, every time they make a new unit for faction X, they should upgrade the sculpt of some older kit from the line, because what can happen now is you get a great new sculpt, but the only way to play the army is with some not-particularly-good old box of junky models from 15 years ago. Looking at you Necron Warriors... Do this, until you have gotten everything up to whatever level you consider "modern." This would actually help sell the army, because people aren't "pot committed" to buying bad old models just because they like the new ones, so they can play. In that case, people are likely to just not start it at all.

So, that's a lot of words to say, well, I think they aren't exactly wrong, but they aren't exactly right either.

"Wir sehen hiermit wieder die Sprache als das Dasein des Geistes." - The Phenomenology of Spirit 
   
Made in us
Winged Kroot Vulture






No sense in updating models, except SMs...ha, am I right, guys?

...crickets...

Seriously, maybe they felt some heat from updating to primaris that it made them think that is a consensus of the fans to the entire model range.
I don't know, it just seems like a short sighted thing to say in the end.

I'm back! 
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

I'm totally fine if they only update existing kits that truly need it. Or convert failcast and the last few metal minis in a given range into plastic kits like they just did with the new gobbos.

Probably the greatest contributor the more open and relaxed atmosphere in the studio was the departure of Alan Merrit. I've heard stories that people would wait until he was on vacation to try to do an end run around his interference. And that he even tried to block the development of the Imperial Knight. Something tells me that after that guy they'll be very careful in making sure their "head of intellectual property" can't micromanage the studio again.

Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in us
Powerful Ushbati





United States

You all might be reading too much into that statement. I don't think it means "Nothing old will ever be re-imagined"

I think it means "We want to mix the old with the new, releasing things as they are needed, updates and the new."
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle






All I can say is that being on the design team at Games Workshop sounds like a really cool job.

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Nottingham

That's interesting. Last time I spoke to Blanche, he told me he only worked in the studio on a Friday as he couldn't stand all the career chasers, and was working from home for the rest of the week. Although that was in 2014, so maybe it is a happier place than it was.

Have a look at my P&M blog - currently working on Sons of Horus

Have a look at my 3d Printed Mierce Miniatures

Previous projects
30k Iron Warriors (11k+)
Full first company Crimson Fists
Zone Mortalis (unfinished)
Classic high elf bloodbowl team 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





What’s a career chaser? Is working for GW considered really prestigious or something?

--- 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 slave.entity wrote:
What’s a career chaser? Is working for GW considered really prestigious or something?


I assume he means brown nosers and tryhards. I share his revulsion.

"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Nottingham

 Nostromodamus wrote:
 slave.entity wrote:
What’s a career chaser? Is working for GW considered really prestigious or something?


I assume he means brown nosers and tryhards. I share his revulsion.


Pretty much. Basically individuals who always have half of their mind working towards moving up the ladder, and that agenda is clear from the way that they interact with colleagues. Always sucking up, often dismissive of peers abilities, and little regard for those beneath them.

Regarding prestige of working for them, only for hobbyists. But it's a multi million pound business, with a large staffing, therefore potentially lots of opportunity for career progression.

Have a look at my P&M blog - currently working on Sons of Horus

Have a look at my 3d Printed Mierce Miniatures

Previous projects
30k Iron Warriors (11k+)
Full first company Crimson Fists
Zone Mortalis (unfinished)
Classic high elf bloodbowl team 
   
Made in de
Huge Bone Giant






 Togusa wrote:
You all might be reading too much into that statement. I don't think it means "Nothing old will ever be re-imagined"

I think it means "We want to mix the old with the new, releasing things as they are needed, updates and the new."


If any thought of "releasing things as they are needed" entered into the process, we would have had plastic Sisters years ago...

I think it's much more a case of trying to do new things because, as artists, retreading old things isn't enticing, and then not having enough managerial oversight to force necessary updates alongside new projects. Those new projects then take over and leave people waiting for updated kits in the rain.

I can think of numerous examples of this. Tomb King elite skeletons built on the anatomy of completely outdated skeletons (that had already been replaced for Vampire Counts to boot) instead of redoing the foundation of the range first. Guess that didn't sell since Tomb Kings are squatted now.

Phoenixes and flying boats for High Elves didn't go down well when the Core selection had to be filled with starter set models or terrible Spearmen.

Eldar Aspect Warriors have already been mentioned further up in this thread.

Wrapping up the Necron range by just releasing a damn plastic Fayled Ones kit doesn't seem to excite anybody either...

It took three new incarnations of loyalist Marines of various descriptions before we finally get an updated Chaos Marine kit (that is, of course, still in the rumor stage, but basically confirmed for March).

Really, I see no indication that GW considers the foundation of an army in any meaningful way, and instead just focuses on shiny new things.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Geifer wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
You all might be reading too much into that statement. I don't think it means "Nothing old will ever be re-imagined"

I think it means "We want to mix the old with the new, releasing things as they are needed, updates and the new."


If any thought of "releasing things as they are needed" entered into the process, we would have had plastic Sisters years ago...

I think it's much more a case of trying to do new things because, as artists, retreading old things isn't enticing, and then not having enough managerial oversight to force necessary updates alongside new projects. Those new projects then take over and leave people waiting for updated kits in the rain.

I can think of numerous examples of this. Tomb King elite skeletons built on the anatomy of completely outdated skeletons (that had already been replaced for Vampire Counts to boot) instead of redoing the foundation of the range first. Guess that didn't sell since Tomb Kings are squatted now.

Phoenixes and flying boats for High Elves didn't go down well when the Core selection had to be filled with starter set models or terrible Spearmen.

Eldar Aspect Warriors have already been mentioned further up in this thread.

Wrapping up the Necron range by just releasing a damn plastic Fayled Ones kit doesn't seem to excite anybody either...

It took three new incarnations of loyalist Marines of various descriptions before we finally get an updated Chaos Marine kit (that is, of course, still in the rumor stage, but basically confirmed for March).

Really, I see no indication that GW considers the foundation of an army in any meaningful way, and instead just focuses on shiny new things.


Which is so funny to me, because every time I look at an army, the foundational kit being interesting is what draws me to them in the first place. I love the new Skitarii kit, the dark eldar kits, the deathwatch kit (and how wonderfully customizable deathwatch are in general) and the harlequin kit, while the Guardian kit being awful is what prevents me from getting more into CWE.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 JamesY wrote:
 Nostromodamus wrote:
 slave.entity wrote:
What’s a career chaser? Is working for GW considered really prestigious or something?


I assume he means brown nosers and tryhards. I share his revulsion.


Pretty much. Basically individuals who always have half of their mind working towards moving up the ladder, and that agenda is clear from the way that they interact with colleagues. Always sucking up, often dismissive of peers abilities, and little regard for those beneath them.

Regarding prestige of working for them, only for hobbyists. But it's a multi million pound business, with a large staffing, therefore potentially lots of opportunity for career progression.


Huh. Seems like a kind of person that would be present at literally any scale of business beyond like a mom and pop shop. I thought he was implying that GW had an unusually high proportion of career chasers, which would seem very odd to me considering how niche they are. Guess Blanche just isn't into the corporate environment. Me neither!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/18 22:11:48


--- 
   
Made in ca
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Hamilton, ON

Breaking: Nerds can be cliquey and snobbish.

The Fall of Kronstaat IV
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,765pts painted (updated 06/05/20)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 29/12/19, ep10 - And All That Could Have Been)
Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 02/02/2020)

All 'crimes' should be treasured if they bring you pleasure somehow. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







 frozenwastes wrote:
Something tells me that after that guy they'll be very careful in making sure their "head of intellectual property" can't micromanage the studio again.


D'you think they'll hire one (or did hire one) that actually understands the different types of IP?

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Nottingham

 Dysartes wrote:
 frozenwastes wrote:
Something tells me that after that guy they'll be very careful in making sure their "head of intellectual property" can't micromanage the studio again.


D'you think they'll hire one (or did hire one) that actually understands the different types of IP?


It's Jez Bickham, former WD editor in that post now.

Have a look at my P&M blog - currently working on Sons of Horus

Have a look at my 3d Printed Mierce Miniatures

Previous projects
30k Iron Warriors (11k+)
Full first company Crimson Fists
Zone Mortalis (unfinished)
Classic high elf bloodbowl team 
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

That's so strange. That position needs to be filled by either a professional sales person as selling licenses for computer games and other products can bring in a lot of money or a lawyer if it is primarily about protecting their work from imitation.

I guess he's doing fine though. License revenue is up and GW hasn't been doing any stupid lawsuits. It would actually be impossible for things to be worse than they were under the Kirby/Merrit/Stevenson team. It's good for the company that all three of those individuals are done at GW.

Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in us
Keeper of the Flame





Monticello, IN

Now if only they increase Blanche's workload as AD so much that he doesn't actually draw or design anything again, we'd be set.

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Just Tony wrote:
Now if only they increase Blanche's workload as AD so much that he doesn't actually draw or design anything again, we'd be set.
I think he has cut down on work due to health issues years ago and his work also hasn't been used directly for the design of miniatures for even longer. As art director he has been more of a guiding force and catalyst for the actual designers for years now (probably decades now, it's 2019 after all, not 2000). Even the occasional miniature that uses his work directly as a basis gets redesigned by their concept art team and sculptors before it ends up in plastic.
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





 eohall wrote:
 reds8n wrote:




“We don’t just want to run through the list of ranges and update them all. That wouldn’t excite anybody.



An interesting article, but this quote made me pretty sad. Guess I'm nobody!


On the one hand, I understand where he is coming from. If the player base already has bunch of that unit or that is all they churned out it could get stale. At the same time, many factions in 40k are chock full finecast, metal or even plastic kits of core faction units that haven't aged well compared to the rest of the line. Personally, I don't care if that Chaos Tick thing becomes an actual unit nearly as much as I want more modern looking CSM units. From an army list perspective, I pretty much have to field a Troop choice of some sort. What that Chaos Tick thing is, I highly doubt it will count as a troop choice. Chaos Space Marines aren't the only ones. I seriously think many Eldar troop choices (especially the finecast only ones) could use an update. I think the same could be said with Imperial Guard and Ork troop choices to some extent too. If for nothing else additional variation of those horde armies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/22 02:58:59


 
   
Made in us
Keeper of the Flame





Monticello, IN

Mario wrote:
 Just Tony wrote:
Now if only they increase Blanche's workload as AD so much that he doesn't actually draw or design anything again, we'd be set.
I think he has cut down on work due to health issues years ago and his work also hasn't been used directly for the design of miniatures for even longer. As art director he has been more of a guiding force and catalyst for the actual designers for years now (probably decades now, it's 2019 after all, not 2000). Even the occasional miniature that uses his work directly as a basis gets redesigned by their concept art team and sculptors before it ends up in plastic.


Just so long as nothing like the 7th Ed Vampire Counts ever happens again.

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in se
Executing Exarch






Mario wrote:
 Just Tony wrote:
Now if only they increase Blanche's workload as AD so much that he doesn't actually draw or design anything again, we'd be set.
I think he has cut down on work due to health issues years ago and his work also hasn't been used directly for the design of miniatures for even longer. As art director he has been more of a guiding force and catalyst for the actual designers for years now (probably decades now, it's 2019 after all, not 2000). Even the occasional miniature that uses his work directly as a basis gets redesigned by their concept art team and sculptors before it ends up in plastic.


I don’t know, he did the concepts for Kharadron, Rogue Trader, Moonclan and probably a lot more we don’t know about. Obviously those sketches would’ve been done 3-5 years ago but they are still new releases miniature-wise.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






I'm not surprised if he's cut back; he's in his 70s now, I think - past normal retirement age.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Just Tony wrote:Just so long as nothing like the 7th Ed Vampire Counts ever happens again.
Did he create the concept art that the sculptor used directly for a miniature or just work that established the faction/book? I don't think he did concept art that directly gets used for a long time. Mostly it's sculptors that get inspired by some of his illustrations and those get reworked into something that fits with today's GW aesthetic.

Mymearan wrote:I don’t know, he did the concepts for Kharadron, Rogue Trader, Moonclan and probably a lot more we don’t know about. Obviously those sketches would’ve been done 3-5 years ago but they are still new releases miniature-wise.
How much was directly taken from his sketches? Like my reply above, I don't think any of his work gets used without adjusting for today's GW design language.

Do both of you have examples (his sketch/illustration and final miniature) that can be compared? GW seems to have standardised its aesthetic very much, even if stuff is inspired by his work. The final product doesn't have the same feel as his sketches and illustration. There seem to be at least a GW concept artists between him and the sculptor.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






GW can't update their old sculpts because the IP lawyers won't let them. They need to have all the previous paths and aspects be killed by Catlady and have Omega Aspect Warriors which are more lawyer friendly!
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





I would say they still use a lot of John Blanche's work. Here is the sketch concept for Skragrott
[Thumb - IMG_20190123_113923.jpg]

[Thumb - IMG_20190123_114123.jpg]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/23 02:51:04


 
   
 
Forum Index » Dakka Discussions
Go to: