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I just finished painting up a Raptor Chapter Scout Kill Team. It is mainly for use for a friend of mine that I can occasionally get to play.

Leader: Scout with Sniper Rifle and Camo Cloak
Sniper: Scout with Sniper Rifle and Camo Cloak
Comms: Scout with Sniper Rifle and Camo Cloak
Heavy: Scout Gunner with Missile Launcher and Camo Cloak
Scout Gunner with Heavy Bolter
Scout with Sniper Rifle and Camo Cloak
Scout with Bolter or Scout with Shotgun
Scout with Bolter or Scout with Shotgun



I am a little concerned between my friend's lack of familiarity with Kill Team and this sniper heavy list (he really wanted a bunch of sniper rifles), that I think maybe I should tone down some of my own teams or at very least play on less terrain dense boards. I think my friend could probably handle my Chaos Space Marine list, but I kinda want to play either a Shooty Necron, Grey Knight or Thousand Sons list against him. I wanted some input to see if any or all of these factions might be a little much for a new player with the above scout list. I am thinking that scout list should handle elite lists decently well as long as there isn't much LoS blocking terrain since sooner or later that number of sniper rifles is going to generate Mortal Wounds. At the same time, I think the Necrons, Grey Knight and Thousand Sons can create pretty tough teams. So I wanted a second opinion to create a fairly level playing field before we game.

The next bit of advice I am asking for is what direction to expand the above Kill Team. I am sorta leaning toward adding some Reivers to provide that much needed CQC. Again, my friend is adamant about having sniper rifles in his team. Just not as many as his current team has.

That list will frankly get shredded by MEQ factions. I would use two missile launchers for certain. Unfortunately, sniper rifles do pretty poorly.

If you expand, I'd look to adding a second missile launcher scout, and perhaps a tactical marine with a missile launcher. In terms of Primaris, an Intercessor with an auspex and an Intercessor Sergeant with a power sword are good options. Reivers are not very good in melee. A Reiver Sergeant only does .44 wounds vs MEQ in one round of combat, a Tactical Sergeant with power fist is a much better option, and an Intercessor Sergeant with power sword is a much, much better option.

Yeah, the sniper rifle requirement makes it hard to balance team for the normal amount of terrain and board size. I think it would be fine, or at least better, on a more open, larger board where it could get more shots before being force to engage. I still felt the list was kinda weak so I plan to tone my list back a bit so he can have what he wants in his team and we still have a good game. Problem is, most of my kill team's are MEQs.

Another missile launcher does seem like a good idea. I know first hand how painful Krak missiles are. I think I have spare space marine with a missile launcher I can strip and add to the team for him. I was hoping that he could get by with a set of easy-build Primaris to round out the rest of the force.

Easy to build Intercessors would make a pretty good addition, especially if you convert them a bit. You have a comms specialist and it couldn't be too hard to add a grenade launcher or power sword. That plus your tac marine with a missile launcher would add a lot of good options to the roster.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, the models look good and it's a cool kill team thematically!

Thanks for the advice. Monetary price has been an issue with this kill team combined with the sniper rifle requirement. So it had be done on the cheap rather on the most effective. At the same time, I really do want to make sure he has a fun time with them.

Also thanks on the aesthetics compliment. Building these guys were far more of a challenge than I expected. The bolter and shotgun scouts had mold lines as bad as any early Mantic restic model and took more than a bit of effort to get decent poses out of them. Especially the heavy bolter scout. Fortunately, painting was easy as it was a bunch of WWII tank colors (what would I do without you Vallejo Brown Violet).

I recently built some scouts for my own Adeptus Astartes kill team and their mold lines were also egregious. The mold must be getting pretty worn out. I think they were the worst I've ever seen on any GW miniature.

I've been building lots of kill teams. I think I have seven now, and I built one for a friend, as well. So cost-effectiveness is also of concern for me. I originally bought easy to build Reivers as a cheap option for my Adeptus Astartes kill team and ended up regretting it because they are so lackluster on the table. Fortunately, I also had some DI Intercessors which I converted as I suggested above and they have been working out pretty well.

Little advice about Loyalists- do not use only one type of unit in a Kill Team list. They don't work well.

See if you can acquire him at least a couple of intercessors and a Reiver.

Leader: Scout with Sniper Rifle and Camo Cloak
Sniper: Scout with Sniper Rifle and Camo Cloak
Comms: Scout with Sniper Rifle and Camo Cloak
Heavy: Scout Gunner with Missile Launcher and Camo Cloak
Scout Gunner with Heavy Bolter
Scout with Sniper Rifle and Camo Cloak
Scout with Bolter or Scout with Shotgun
Scout with Bolter or Scout with Shotgun

I'd probably have gone for 2 combat blade scouts as optional models - at least someone with a second attack and a pistol gives you a decent melee screen (especially with Angel Of Death up your sleeve).

Anyway. Models as is - fine. It's not tournament-shattering, but it can do work.

Starting with the models as is, my comments:

Missile launcher/Heavy Bolter isn't a bad pairing. Yes, the missile launcher hits harder, but the frag missile isn't as good as the heavy bolter at crowd control and actually the heavy bolter is better at wounding a tough lone target if you save the command points for a hellfire shell.

I'm not sure about specialists - the missile launcher being a heavy means moving is no penalty but since he's cam-cloaked up he's probably going to want to park somewhere "safe" with good lines of sight and the comms guy and stay there. The heavy bolter, by comparison, is probably #3 of the 'advance team' along with the bolters/shotguns and pushing forwards where there's an objective, plus he has the shorter 'close range' (18" not 24").

As a result, I'd be tempted to make him the specialist - especially since if using More Bullets, you get a free S5 AP-1 shot, not a + to a frag missile roll.

I'd keep the missile launcher a specialist, but instead of a sniper being a specialist, consider making the missile launcher a demolitions specialist - that's +1 to wound if the target is in cover - great for putting down death guard or making frag missiles relevant against guard or termagants. Sniper for the missile gunner might be good, too - with aupex scan or careful aim and a comms specialist, a krak missiles is an "anything but a one" which makes sniper an attractive specialism.

locarno24 wrote:

I'd probably have gone for 2 combat blade scouts as optional models - at least someone with a second attack and a pistol gives you a decent melee screen (especially with Angel Of Death up your sleeve).

Anyway. Models as is - fine. It's not tournament-shattering, but it can do work.

Starting with the models as is, my comments:

Missile launcher/Heavy Bolter isn't a bad pairing. Yes, the missile launcher hits harder, but the frag missile isn't as good as the heavy bolter at crowd control and actually the heavy bolter is better at wounding a tough lone target if you save the command points for a hellfire shell.

I'm not sure about specialists - the missile launcher being a heavy means moving is no penalty but since he's cam-cloaked up he's probably going to want to park somewhere "safe" with good lines of sight and the comms guy and stay there. The heavy bolter, by comparison, is probably #3 of the 'advance team' along with the bolters/shotguns and pushing forwards where there's an objective, plus he has the shorter 'close range' (18" not 24").

As a result, I'd be tempted to make him the specialist - especially since if using More Bullets, you get a free S5 AP-1 shot, not a + to a frag missile roll.

I'd keep the missile launcher a specialist, but instead of a sniper being a specialist, consider making the missile launcher a demolitions specialist - that's +1 to wound if the target is in cover - great for putting down death guard or making frag missiles relevant against guard or termagants. Sniper for the missile gunner might be good, too - with aupex scan or careful aim and a comms specialist, a krak missiles is an "anything but a one" which makes sniper an attractive specialism.

I managed to play a game against the Raptors with my friend and another game with another opponent as the Raptors. Both games were against Necrons. I felt that my friend's play style lent more toward shotguns instead of chainswords and pistols so that is how I modeled them, but when I played the raptors I completely agree that I would have rather had the additional close combat attack. I got stuck into CQC right away with both shotgunners fighting a combat specialist Flayed One. I would have liked to matched their claws blow for blow even if they still had the better chance of winning the fight. I have also noticed that as scouts they are decently tough but just cheap enough to have a couple extra bodies free if you want to create a limited tar-pit of an elite, not close combat monster while allow other members to slide on by to take objectives. Both games took the Necrons far longer than they could afford being locked in close combat.

I also think you are on to something with with the Heavy Bolter vs. Missile Launcher specialists. I wasn't sure which would be better suited for it and decided that unit that cost more points should get it. However, you are completely correct. In both games, the Missile Launcher parked it and fired krak missiles all game while the Heavy Bolter tried following the shotgunners/bolters as the moved up. It is hard to say what the heavy bolter would have done because in both games he was removed before firing a shot. That's still technically supporting the close range attack element of the team though.

Unfortunately, my friend is insistent on having a sniper rifle sniper specialist. The only requirement he had for his kill team was that it have sniper rifles. Honestly, after being on both sides of Astartes sniper rifle, I felt they should probably be Strength 5 or AP -1. Playing the Necrons I wasn't that concerned with 4+ to hit/4+ to wound with my 3+ save. Using sniper scouts, I really felt the loss of Rapid Fire from a bolter fairly quickly as shots would connect but not wound/penetrate armor nearly often enough. Will will agree that 2+ to hit/ 2+ wound was fantastic with Krak Missiles (my comm specialist stayed near my heavy specialist all game, and I had an open shot on a Deathmark nearly all game. The only reason I couldn't shift it was I kept rolling too good damage thus getting a couple of 6s in the injury roll or the Necron player used Primed Animation Procotols when I only rolled 2 damage to make fairly certain one of those 3 dice would only be a flesh wound. If I play using them again, I think I will try your suggestion, but I don't think my friend cares enough to weaken his snipers.

@

I have to say I like this kill team. They have a lot of pluck. When I used them they really did have a decent spec-ops feel even if they didn't match my personal play style very well. I found myself holding back the urge to move up and engage the enemy at half range or in full CQC. That said, I think they perfectly fit my friends playstyle. I still want to afford him options and I really like painting them up. So I do look forward to the team's roster being expanded.

Below are some pictures of my game with my friend playing the Raptors. The mission was a pretty standard Battlefront (of Flames of War fame) mission where each player places two ojectives in their deployment zone no closer than 3" to the short board edge. To win a player had to have a model within 2" of the opposing player's objective with no enemy model also within 2" before the end of round 6. If no player managed to accomplish this, the game is a draw. The story was the Raptor Scouts were sent in to investigate why a Raven Guard Terminator squad went missing and investigate/recover the armor and/or genesed if found dead. Once nearly the remains of the terminators, the scout recognize the area as good ambush location with limited escape routes. The Necrons come out of phase setting off the ambush. The scouts continue to attempt the mission of investigating the downed terminators while the Necrons attempt to surround the scout cutting off any escape routes. I wanted to do a batrep, but we were pressed for time so I only took some early game pictures. Ultimately, the game timed out at the end of Round 6 with neither side able to accomplish their goals.

Those look neat!

Thematically, Intercessors seem like a pretty good fit for Raptors if you get chance to expand the team. The old FW rules for Raptors had them able to take sniper shots with their bolters, so having very adaptable, long-ranged bolter-armed troops would suit them. I think the under-barrelled grenade launchers would fit the spec-ops theme too.

Of course, your friend would probably prefer them to have stalker bolt-rifles I have no idea which Intercessor variant is best in Killteam though.

Intercessors serve three roles very well; an Intercessor Sergeant with a power sword is the most effective melee option available to Adeptus Astartes; an Intercessor is the only model other than a Tactical Sergeant which can carry an auspex, and so makes a good comms specialist; and an Intercessor gunner with an auxiliary grenade launcher is a very good ranged model for its price. You could give any of those stalker bolt rifles if you wanted to, though the auto bolt rifle would probably be best on the Sergeant. They definitely make a good addition to any Adeptus Astartes roster.

Second adding in some intercessors. Reivers look a lot better on paper than they actually are, while intercessors are outright amazing. Give them the auto bolt rifle over their bolt rifle and they have the same long gun as the reiver. An intercessor sarge as your combat specialist with even just a chainsword is scary, but the power sword being the best if you can swing the points.

A gunner with an aux grenade launcher is also pretty nice for the sheer versatility. The intercessors having stalker/auto/basic bolt rifles also helps with the raptor theme for a more "sniper" weapons.

The best thing SM can bring to the table is superior ranged special weapons.

Sniper rifles and bolters are not good.

But as I know from all FPS, the rocket laucher is just a superior sniper rifle.

 Dr. Serling wrote:
Second adding in some intercessors. Reivers look a lot better on paper than they actually are, while intercessors are outright amazing. Give them the auto bolt rifle over their bolt rifle and they have the same long gun as the reiver. An intercessor sarge as your combat specialist with even just a chainsword is scary, but the power sword being the best if you can swing the points.

A gunner with an aux grenade launcher is also pretty nice for the sheer versatility. The intercessors having stalker/auto/basic bolt rifles also helps with the raptor theme for a more "sniper" weapons.

In Kill-Team, Reivers are fantastic depending on terrain. A small, one-level map renders them somewhat mediocre, but they can still absolutely mulch low armor models.

I have personally found Reivers to be pretty lacking, but I do play against mostly MEQ teams. A Reiver Sergeant only does an average of .44 wounds vs. MEQ per round, whereas an Intercessor Sergeant with power sword does .89. A Tactical Sergeant with power fist comes in second with .69 but also has d3 damage. Out of all of the melee options, Reivers are definitely the least likely to wound or kill something, but if the terrain has a huge amount of vertically then they could be useful.

Unfortunately, I can really only budget picking up a box of easy-build Primaris as this is a side team for my friend to use when I can get him to play me. But it really does depend on how often we actually game. After all, I still want to pick up Killzone: Deathworld (I kinda want to do a Lost Patrol-like kill team mission) and Death Watch starter. Not to mention, if new Black Legion/CSM stuff actually happens at the end of Vigilus Defiant 80 days.

I think even just the easy-build intercessors would help boost the team effectiveness is for no other reason that they would have more options. Although, I might wait to pick them up as it sounds like I would be much better off holding out to buy the full kit for all the options.

I do appreciate the feedback. It has given me a good road map to the future of the Raptor's roster. Even if I don't act on it right away. This whole thing would be a lot easier if my friend did want sniper rifles in his team so much.

Just don't forget that Intercessors can take a sniper rifle boltgun variant as a basic weapon!

If you want to make them look more stealthy sniper like the Scouts, it is easy to convert a suppressor from plasticard cylinders. That should please your friend

I suspect it is worth waiting to be able to get more options, unless you fancy having a conversion session with the ETB kits to build the options.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just don't forget that Intercessors can take a sniper rifle boltgun variant as a basic weapon!

If you want to make them look more stealthy sniper like the Scouts, it is easy to convert a suppressor from plasticard cylinders. That should please your friend

I suspect it is worth waiting to be able to get more options, unless you fancy having a conversion session with the ETB kits to build the options.

Make one of the Sniper Rifles a Demolitions and then use the Demolitions tactic. The increase chance to wound means you're doing d3 mortal wounds on a 4+ to wound instead of a 6+. Makes at least one sniper really deadly. Pair him up with a comms unit with an auspex to make sure that sniper round hits on a 2+ and you'll delete a unit a turn.

drbored wrote:
Make one of the Sniper Rifles a Demolitions and then use the Demolitions tactic. The increase chance to wound means you're doing d3 mortal wounds on a 4+ to wound instead of a 6+. Makes at least one sniper really deadly. Pair him up with a comms unit with an auspex to make sure that sniper round hits on a 2+ and you'll delete a unit a turn.

That's is pretty clever. You are right the hit roll usually isn't the issue since there are ways to reduce the difficulty, but the wound roll is pretty static since I mostly see MEQs. Not sure where the d3 mortal wounds are coming from though. Astartes sniper rifles only generate 1 Mortal Wound in addition to normal damage on a 6+ or 5+ with demo specialism. Still, it is double chance of a Mortal Wound makes it worth doing.

I also play a scout-only kill team. It has very obvious weak-points, but I find it a bit more fun.

I often use a heavy bolter - the hellfire stratagem can be brutal - especially if sat next to your comms guy.