Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I had a game not too long ago where I was running a Redemptor with the Big Plasma Gun against an army of Space wolves. The guy used the spell to give my dreadnought a minus one to hit, and with him moving it was also a minus one to hit.

He proposed that because of this, a roll of 1, 2, and 3 would result in a mortal wound to the dreadnought because they would count as ones.

I have always thought it was just an unmodified roll of one that did this, that being said I may just be salty.

So what do you guys say?

OverlyGrumpyTau wrote:
So I had a game not too long ago where I was running a Redemptor with the Big Plasma Gun against an army of Space wolves. The guy used the spell to give my dreadnought a minus one to hit, and with him moving it was also a minus one to hit.

He proposed that because of this, a roll of 1, 2, and 3 would result in a mortal wound to the dreadnought because they would count as ones.

I have always thought it was just an unmodified roll of one that did this, that being said I may just be salty.

So what do you guys say?

It's not unmodified ones. He was correct.

Designers Commentary wrote:Q: Can a dice roll ever be modified to less than 1?
A: No. If, after all modifiers have been applied, a dice roll would be less than 1, count that result as a 1.

Yes, it seems that the Machine Spirits inside Imperial Plasma Weaponry, for some bizarre reason, are scared of the dark and moving too quickly, as well as blue Eldar.

OverlyGrumpyTau wrote:
So I had a game not too long ago where I was running a Redemptor with the Big Plasma Gun against an army of Space wolves. The guy used the spell to give my dreadnought a minus one to hit, and with him moving it was also a minus one to hit.

He proposed that because of this, a roll of 1, 2, and 3 would result in a mortal wound to the dreadnought because they would count as ones.

I have always thought it was just an unmodified roll of one that did this, that being said I may just be salty.

So what do you guys say?

If it meant "unmodified roll", it'd say so. In that specific situation your Redemptor would burn itself on 1-3 indeed.
And if you have an aura that tells you to re-roll failed hit rolls (eg. Captain with Chapter Master stratagem applied), 3s and 4s will not be re-rollable because rerolls are done BEFORE modifers are applied - and those are still hits before modifiers are applied.

It's weird and unintuitive and stupid, and exactly how GW wants it to work, sadly.

Yea, it's probably my least-favorite thing about this edition. "Gets Hot" type weapons should wound you on an unmodified 1, not after minus to hit modifiers.

Armies that can stack -2 or -3 to hit are already quite powerful, but I can't even TRY to hit them without risking killing myself. :( Yes, I can turn the power down and shoot them with non-supercharged weapons, but that's effectively cutting my damage in half before I even roll to hit.

I’ve never understood why you don’t just roll a seperate dice for “Get’s Hot”.” It solves all the common sense issues with the rule.

I also agree that it should also proc on a natural roll of a 1. Or at least that negative to-hit modifiers should simply change the roll required. Nat2 if firing with a -1 modifier, nat3 is a -2, etc. Edit: and that in such a case a Nat1 or Nat2 would just be a normal
miss.

Also, I was under the impression that hit modifiers didn’t stack in this edition?

They do, just not from the same rules source unless otherwise stated.

Play Dark Angels and use weapons of the Dark Age.

Don;t have to worry about the overcharge issue then

With 8th ed gw went for every weapon working potentially differently so you need to check specific weapon. Some will overcharge there on 1-3, others on unmodified 1. Others will kill you, others give you 1MW. Have fun.

tneva82 wrote:
With 8th ed gw went for every weapon working potentially differently so you need to check specific weapon. Some will overcharge there on 1-3, others on unmodified 1. Others will kill you, others give you 1MW. Have fun.

There's no plasma weapon i know of that only overheats on an unmodified 1.the kill/mw thing is mostly about not killing an entire tank just because one gun overheated.

 SeanDavid1991 wrote:
Play Dark Angels and use weapons of the Dark Age.

Don;t have to worry about the overcharge issue then

It's too expensive to spam though. Plus if you are using it, it's probably high enough priority a target that you want S8 and 3 damage!

Good strat though.

 Stux wrote:

 SeanDavid1991 wrote:
Play Dark Angels and use weapons of the Dark Age.

Don;t have to worry about the overcharge issue then

It's too expensive to spam though. Plus if you are using it, it's probably high enough priority a target that you want S8 and 3 damage!

Good strat though.

My Strat is use that on Hellblasters, even if they die the ancient is near by to give them 50/50 chance to shoot again.

This is the reason how I managed to get 23 rapid fire hits of S8 D3 Plasma against Mortarion with 10 Hellblasters,

Sure I took a few hellblaster casualties, but Mortarion took 15 wounds saved 7, 24 Damage, FNP 8 of them and had two wounds left. Azrael charged him and dealt 2 mortal wounds with his sword

nekooni wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
With 8th ed gw went for every weapon working potentially differently so you need to check specific weapon. Some will overcharge there on 1-3, others on unmodified 1. Others will kill you, others give you 1MW. Have fun.

There's no plasma weapon i know of that only overheats on an unmodified 1.the kill/mw thing is mostly about not killing an entire tank just because one gun overheated.

Check ork weapons.

tneva82 wrote:

nekooni wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
With 8th ed gw went for every weapon working potentially differently so you need to check specific weapon. Some will overcharge there on 1-3, others on unmodified 1. Others will kill you, others give you 1MW. Have fun.

There's no plasma weapon i know of that only overheats on an unmodified 1.the kill/mw thing is mostly about not killing an entire tank just because one gun overheated.

Check ork weapons.

so ... Badrukk's unique gun, that's all I could find.

nekooni wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

nekooni wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
With 8th ed gw went for every weapon working potentially differently so you need to check specific weapon. Some will overcharge there on 1-3, others on unmodified 1. Others will kill you, others give you 1MW. Have fun.

There's no plasma weapon i know of that only overheats on an unmodified 1.the kill/mw thing is mostly about not killing an entire tank just because one gun overheated.

Check ork weapons.

so ... Badrukk's unique gun, that's all I could find.

Any of the Kustom Mega weapons as well, they're the Ork equivalent to plasma

But do they use "unmodified roll of 1"? BS says otherwise, but, well, that's BS.

This rule is so silly me and my mates don’t use it. We go natural one or nothing. It makes no sense otherwise.

Others are correct in stating that you calculate Gets Hot! after to hit modifiers are applied.

Gets Hot! should REALLY be calculated before modifiers are applied. It would be pretty easy to change the wording or release a FAQ. It would eliminate stupid things like plasma guns not being able to overheat if you have a +1 to hit, or overheating on 1s and 2s if you have a -1 to hit.

I was somewhat assuming it would be faqd. It's unmodified in kill team.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
I was somewhat assuming it would be faqd. It's unmodified in kill team.

Why would they FAQ a rule that has been consistent with all of their other rules and is working as they intended?

Also Kill Team is not the same game as 40k.

Pakman184 wrote:

Why would they FAQ a rule that has been consistent with all of their other rules and is working as they intended?

That's a risky argument when talking about GW. They're not exactly known for consistency - see Badrukks's gun. Just saying ;-)

nekooni wrote:

Pakman184 wrote:

Why would they FAQ a rule that has been consistent with all of their other rules and is working as they intended?

That's a risky argument when talking about GW. They're not exactly known for consistency - see Badrukks's gun. Just saying ;-)

Da Rippa is a named weapon on a unique character That means it's almost guaranteed to have different rules than a normal weapon.

 Ghaz wrote:

nekooni wrote:

Pakman184 wrote:

Why would they FAQ a rule that has been consistent with all of their other rules and is working as they intended?

That's a risky argument when talking about GW. They're not exactly known for consistency - see Badrukks's gun. Just saying ;-)

Da Rippa is a named weapon on a unique character That means it's almost guaranteed to have different rules than a normal weapon.

Still a plasma weapon that should either not get hot or get hot just like others. It basically achieves nothing worthwhile in exchange for confusing people... Because it isn't consistent with other similar weapons.

Sorry but the fact that it's a named weapon on a unique character makes it an exception to the rules. Should we just get rid of all of the unique characters because they don't 'follow the rules' like normal characters?

nekooni wrote:
But do they use "unmodified roll of 1"? BS says otherwise, but, well, that's BS.

And that kids, is why Battlescribe's initials also mean something else...

Just checked it, Codex is correct.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghaz wrote:
Sorry but the fact that it's a named weapon on a unique character makes it an exception to the rules. Should we just get rid of all of the unique characters because they don't 'follow the rules' like normal characters?

All Ork KMB type weapons have "unmodified 1" in their rules. Not just BadRukk's

Clearly Humanity's Machine Spirits are just scared of the dark .

 Ghaz wrote:
Sorry but the fact that it's a named weapon on a unique character makes it an exception to the rules. Should we just get rid of all of the unique characters because they don't 'follow the rules' like normal characters?

When have I ever said anything like that? Way to go overboard mate.

All I'm saying is that at least within a codex there should be basic consistency as to how a type of weapon works. Apparently they do, as was pointed out by someone with the actual codex, which is a relief.
But I'd still prefer for all "Gets Hot" type of things to at least use the same basic rule, either unmodified or modified 1s.

How you got to removing unique characters baffles me,honestly.

Especially when apparently this isn't an issue of a unique weapon, but Ork plasma being more reliable than any other plasma. Because the rules author went with a slightly different wording (which should have been applied to all plasma weapons through errata)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimtuff wrote:

nekooni wrote:
But do they use "unmodified roll of 1"? BS says otherwise, but, well, that's BS.

And that kids, is why Battlescribe's initials also mean something else...

Just checked it, Codex is correct.

Yeah, I thought it was odd which is why I put that disclaimer there - but since I don't play orks I don't own the codex to check it. Thanks for clearing that up

nekooni wrote:


Especially when apparently this isn't an issue of a unique weapon, but Ork plasma being more reliable than any other plasma. Because the rules author went with a slightly different wording (which should have been applied to all plasma weapons through errata)

Although I'd prefer there to be some consistency, Orks appear to be the only codex this applies to. Either due to them changing tact, or the fact that Orks have no option to "undercharge" their Plasma as it were, so need a tad more protection to make them worth taking combined with generally rubbish shooting and loads of -1 to hits.

Related question.

+1 to hit would mean you CANNOT die from plasma then?

footfoe wrote:
Related question.

+1 to hit would mean you CANNOT die from plasma then?

That is correct, unless of course you're shooting at something with negative hit modifiers.

Pakman184 wrote:

footfoe wrote:
Related question.

+1 to hit would mean you CANNOT die from plasma then?

That is correct, unless of course you're shooting at something with negative hit modifiers.

Or unless your'e an ork. Their unique plasma rule has its ups and downs. Also it pretty confusing.