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Hi guys

I hope ya'll can pool the collective dakka brains and help me out with some advice.
I'm a new to 40k 8th edition and just came out of my stasis...I got the codex, rulebook chapter approved and xenos 1 books as well imperial armour and am in process of reading these so I'm getting to grips with rules and everything.

I own the following models models at various stages of construction (by which I mean mostly on sprues or primed):

3x wraithguard/Wraithblades units (5 man squads)
Autarch
farseer
Spirit Seer
2x Warlocks
1x Guardian squad with platform
1x Dire Avengers squad
1x Wraith Lord
1x Wave Serpent

The wraith guards will be fully magnetised as I love those models and want to run a wraith centric army sort of... I appreciate it might be sub optimal and maybe nto as competitive but I ended up with three of these bastard and a wraith lord coz cheap...so there you go.

With that in mind - Models I am looking to get in the future once I'm done painting this lot.

Box set with wraith knight
Eldrad
1or 2 boxes Dark reapers.
FW shadowspecters aspects

Many thanks in advance for any tips and ideas to help me along

Just a few questions that will help people answering.
When you say 1x guardian, 1x dire avenger, do you mean one box? (10 guardians, five avengers?)

Same with the wraith units. Is that 3x5, 3x7, 3x10?

Just a bit that will help us out.

Yes one unit/Box. Edited.

I can definitely get behind a wraith-centric army, I do have one caution though which is do not neglect your troops entirely: Bring enough Guardians, Dire Avengers or Rangers to run at least a Battalion detachment.

8th edition Command Points (the points you get from having your army in more of a troops-heavy, rigid structure) are very strong, and Eldar have very strong troops and HQs in the first place.

Just like how in previous editions 1 HQ 2 Troops was your starting army in 8th you should consider that 2HQ 3Troop. As such, my first priority would be a box of troops - Rangers if you don't mind the models, because they don't require transport and you would only need to buy 1 box.Otherwise I'd recommend more Guardians. Hopping out of wave serpents guardians make excellent anti-light infantry troops.

My wraith army setup would basically be this:

Any Wraithguard I want to be anti heavy tank, the cannon build, and I want to use the Webway Portal stratagem to deep strike them so they can come down and shoot hard targets. Simple build, and it works. I've never seen scytheguard in 8th edition make back their tremendous point cost.

Any wraithblades, I want double swords. Wraithblades and Wraithlords are inarguably the least competitive part of a wraith list, but the swords do quite well when flung into any kind of elite infantry. To get them where they're going, I'd start them in a wave serpent, then depending on what was needed I'd either go for a turn 2 strike (drive the serpent up, then get them out turn 2 so they hit the same time your deep strikes do) or take the Quicken psychic power if I really need a turn 1 strike.

Wraithknights, with the new Wraith Host detachment from Vigilus I actually kind of like the double cannons. The Vigilus campaign book that just came out gave rules for declaring a detachment to be a "wraith host" which had a couple special wraith-centric stratagems and tactics, the best in my opinion being one that let you transfer the 4+ invulnerable save from a Spiritseer to a nearby Wraith unit for the turn...including a Wraithknight. That 4++ gives the wraithknight with cannons the durability he loses from not having the shield. Otherwise, I would recommend the Suncannon+the shield build for the knight.

If your "box set with Wraithknight' Is the current Eldar battleforce, I would definitely put that at the top of your list to buy. Reason being I think it provides what your collection is lacking at present which is bodies (for Troops slots) and a Wraithknight (for committing to the Wraith theme). Also, delaying buying Eldrad will help you play with a bunch of different craftworld rules and pick the one you like, rather than being stuck with Ulthwe out of the gate. As you remember, in previous editions Space Marines had special snowflake Chapter Tactics rules theyd get, well now everyone gets them - but if you take Named Special Characters they lock you in to a specific craftworld. Eldrad being Ulthwe.

I'm a big fan of the "One Box" mentality of collecting Eldar. But it really depends on how competitive your meta is.

Basically, see a unit you like? Get one box of it. Don't get two.

I say "box" and not "unit", as 10-man Reapers or 9-man Spears more or less define your army if you use them.

Troops and transports are somewhat excepted from this.

You will almost certainly be duplicating some troops at some point. Guardians, Dire Avengers, and Rangers all have their place. Storm Guardians are probably best to avoid at first, though.

This way, beyond your core (and for you, your Wraithguard are more or less core), you have a variety of tools to work with and play.

As for the things you're looking at:

-Box set with wraith knight - Good way to expand your collection at the start.

-Eldrad - You already have a Farseer, and Eldrad forces you to play Uthwe. While Eldrad is good, you probably aren't running him *and* the Farseer. And, thematically, you probably want your Spirit Seer. You've got a bunch of Seers already. So I wouldn't be too quick to pick him up.

-1or 2 boxes Dark reapers - two boxes of Dark reapers is a deathstar. They would be the "core" of your list. They're also a relatively fragile unit in the backfield, which doesn't match Wraith armies well. On the upside, fluffwise, they were followers of Ynead, the future God of the Dead, before Ynnari became a thing. At first, one box might be fun to try out, but I'd avoid two boxes unless/until you want to commit or start playing competitively (and then you probably won't be playing Wraiths much).

- FW shadowspecters aspects - Beautiful kit. Wouldn't be my first choice to start with in the hobby. With their range, I think you'll find they don't synergise well with Wraith. But they are fun and look great. And that's what matters.

Thanks for the words of wisdom and the feedback guys.

I have a bunch of bright lances and HE spear bits lying around. So I was thinking about converting the bikes from the Eldar host box set into shining spears.

Are plain bikes the better option generally ?


Anyhow so far Im thinking:

Battalion detachment with 1x 10 guardians & 2 x 5 Dire avengers squads
A seer(farseer or spirit seer, not sure what the difference is yet)
Warlock conclave as my core.

Then a vanguard detachment with:

Wraiths (1 swords in webway. 1 with scythes to jump out of serpent and blast something in the face, and 1 Axe units to plod down the field and hopefuly draw fire onto their sheilds)
The wave serpent as mentioned above.

An Autarch - Armed with reaper cannon and flaming sabre (coz thats going to be his sculpt... go go. flaming sabre!!!)

+ wraith lord - Minimum load out ?

Not sure how many points thats going to be so far,

Also this Vigilius stuff you mention.. Is it another book I need to buy or can I get the rules related to my army from somewhere?

I bought like 5 books already ... :/

On another note an idea for an army down the line is knight with twin cannons with bonesinger + seer in the backfield behind knight flanked by 2x reaper units who are flanked by 2x wraith blades intercepting anything trying to close in.

I would advise against a warlock conclave. They lack the Character keyword (which is immensely important in 8th edition, it prevents your characters from getting shot unless they're the closest model) and they cost a ton. Farseers and Spiritseers are both important to have in your army, because they have access to different psychic power lists, both of which have some amazing powers in them. I can't imagine doing an eldar army without at least one farseer and at least one spiritseer in it, just to get Doom, Fortune/Executioner, and Quicken.

 Argive wrote:

I have a bunch of bright lances and HE spear bits lying around. So I was thinking about converting the bikes from the Eldar host box set into shining spears.

Are plain bikes the better option generally ?

Plain bikes are a little underwhelming. They were really popular in 7th edition as they were a Troops choice but 8th edition has moved them to Fast and reduced their save. Scatter bikes are decent in a Saim Hann list for mobile fire support. Shuircannon bikes are decent in Biel Tan as they synergise with the special shurican rules. They are OK but not amazing.

Shining Spears are decent and pretty hard hitting, especially if you give the Exarch the boosted lance. A unit of 3 is pretty fragile though so you may want to run them on a flank to hunt down weak units.

 Argive wrote:

Battalion detachment with 1x 10 guardians & 2 x 5 Dire avengers squads
A seer(farseer or spirit seer, not sure what the difference is yet)
Warlock conclave as my core.

Then a vanguard detachment with:

Wraiths (1 swords in webway. 1 with scythes to jump out of serpent and blast something in the face, and 1 Axe units to plod down the field and hopefuly draw fire onto their sheilds)
The wave serpent as mentioned above.

An Autarch - Armed with reaper cannon and flaming sabre (coz thats going to be his sculpt... go go. flaming sabre!!!)

+ wraith lord - Minimum load out ?

Not sure how many points thats going to be so far,

Depending on the Wargear you are probably a bit short of 1500 points. A lot depends on which heavy weapons you load up with.

Wraithlords are flexible and I really like them. I have been running Wraith hosts of one sort or another since 3rd edition and my army is painted up in Iyanden colours. There are optimum ways to run them I find. The first is with a pair of heavy weapons (I favour starcannons for thinning heavy infantry or Brightlances for anti-tank duty). This guy provides fire support from your deployment zone and acts as a deterrent against anyone looking to attack your fire base.

Option 2 is to give him 2 Shuricannons and a Glaive. This way he can Advance which allows him to move 8+D6" and still fire at nearly full effect. That is fast enough that he will be only just behind your units in Wave Serpents and so can form a "2nd wave". The Glaive bumps him to S9 which is handy for killing T4 infantry on a 2+ and he can even wound tough targets like Knights on a 3+.

 Argive wrote:

Also this Vigilius stuff you mention.. Is it another book I need to buy or can I get the rules related to my army from somewhere?

I bought like 5 books already ... :/

Yeah, I know what you mean. The Wraith Host stuff is cool but is only 1 page from the book. Do you have a buddy with it you can photocopy? Alternatively, googling might turn up on a pirated copy (not that I condone copyright violation).

 Argive wrote:

On another note an idea for an army down the line is knight with twin cannons with bonesinger + seer in the backfield behind knight flanked by 2x reaper units who are flanked by 2x wraith blades intercepting anything trying to close in.

As noted above, the dual Wraithcannon knight is good in the Vigilus Wraith Host formation if you can give him and invulnerable save. Otherwise you may be better off the Suncannon/Shield version and running him alongside your advancing forces.

Yeah, I know what you mean. The Wraith Host stuff is cool but is only 1 page from the book. Do you have a buddy with it you can photocopy? Alternatively, googling might turn up on a pirated copy (not that I condone copyright violation).

Of course.. heavens forbid such things

Yeah, I know what you mean. The Wraith Host stuff is cool but is only 1 page from the book. Do you have a buddy with it you can photocopy? Alternatively, googling might turn up on a pirated copy (not that I condone copyright violation).

Giving multiple options to bypass purchasing the book seems to contradict your statement of not condoning it...

Unless you're playing very competitive games, playing Wraith-heavy without that book isn't much worse off than playing Wraith-heavy with that book.

Playing competitive games, Wraith are usually going to lose either way, so there isn't a difference.

So you're not missing out on too much not having it.

I'd second the "don't conclave your warlocks". There just aren't any real upsides, and some very major downsides.

As for Seers, you'll want a Farseer, and then maybe a couple of spiritseers/warlocks. Spiritseers and Warlocks are mostly the same, with the SpiritSeer costing marginally more, having very slightly better stats, and full-smite. But can't take Jetbikes. Although you don't need Jetbikes for a wraith-heavy list.

Any tips on a wraith-lord set up?

The sculpts going to be whatever because he looks cool with a sword and star cannon.

 Argive wrote:
Any tips on a wraith-lord set up?

The sculpts going to be whatever because he looks cool with a sword and star cannon.

Depends on how you want to use the WL. If you want to press the attack with him, then give him Dual Shuriken Cannons and Catapults with the Glaive. Then it is free to advance each turn as it closes in on something to beat down. If you prefer a backfield variant to deter charges, then you can do dual bright lance or dual star cannon depending on what else you are fielding in your army.

This is similar to what I built over Christmas. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/768724.page, though only to 1000 points.

I'll second the suggestion to have 3 troops to form a battalion. Given all the wraith units, a second Spiritseer is a good addition to replace the Warlock(s). A second Wave Serpent to deliver your Wraithblades also won't hurt. Consider a Hemlock and even a Wraithseer (Forge World).

If you're dead set on the Wraithknight, snap up the Christmas Battleforce while you can.

I'm disappointed about the warlocks....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So what would a competitive 1750 point army be in the current meta as an example?

I'm going to play my own way but might pick up some tidbits.

A guy at my club seems to be running a bike heavy list with support from reapers and wraith lord + fw tank(forgot the name)

 Argive wrote:
I'm disappointed about the warlocks....

Single Warlocks aren't horrible, but if you're using a Wraith army then Spiritseers are a huge upgrade for +10 points.

Farseers are pretty much required because of great powers and access to stratagems.

Well... After saying to myself I wont buy any more until the current lot are painted.. I ended up buying the Big Box set with the Knight and 2 units of rangers...

I see what you mean with the spirit seer. Single warlocks aren't necessarily too bad indeed..The benefit of running them in a conclave doesnt seem worth it unless you really, really need those psychic powers to go off I suppose...It's just asking for them to get nuked off the table.