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A few general questions on skaven, some historical and some current.

First up has anyone read Warhammer Fantasy Uniforms and Heraldry of the Skaven or The Loathsome Ratmen and all their Vile Kin for WFRP? The former can be found in a few places for not too much whilst the latter is, sadly appearing a far rarer publication and priced rather insanely high. Though if its good might be worth hunting down at some stage.


After that a general question regarding Clan Rats. I'm well aware that there is likely a new codex/models around the corner for Skaven. However Clan Rats have been a staple for a very long time and I suspect that their typical operation and equipment have remained fairly similar over the years.
I'm basically wondering if people tend to arm them more with their spears or swords. The swords have a better to hit roll whilst the spears are at 5+ but have a 2 inch reach.

I was wondering if a good tactic is to screen spear rats with a two rank of sword rats; the intention being that the sword rats take the brunt of attacks (or at least distract the opponent) whilst the spear rats then get into close combat by having a generally greater reach.

Both, of course, benefit from being taken in groups of 40 and getting a +1 to both to hit and wound rolls whilst they remain above 30 models.

I have that book yes. Previously in whfb you only really ever saw spears because the shield option was a waste and people wanted to max out on attacks with the spears giving you the bonus to attack in the second rank.

Now a days in AOS I'd say the extra save will be beneficial to keep you around longer and hold objectives and if you can mix weapons I'd absolutely do the shields in the front with the spears in the back to basically get the extra attacks you did in whfb.

Which book, the heraldric one or the historical one and what do you think of it?

You still can't mix weapons so a single unit is going to be spear or swords; though it appears now you can take shields with both (its an optional extra, but there's no cost or downside so no reason not to take them).

When I mention screening I mean by running two units; one with swords at the front and one with spears behind. The main issue is that spears hit on a 5+ and wound on a 4+ so those are not great stats even with the 2 inch range. Of course they get a +1 bonus for both if there's 30 or more models in the unit.

I have both of those actually. I have all of the WFRP books from 2nd edition.

I bought the heraldry book to give me ideas for how to paint my empire army back in the day. I think both books were great. They sit on my shelf to this day.

I don't know much about skaven since I have not seen them played since 8th edition fantasy. I would imagine they will have some type of horde mechanic like goblins though, and would want them to be more of a durable objective holder while my bigger stuff chews through things.

I don't care if my fodder does wounds or not. Though if they get something like a loon boss where 6s to wound = a mortal wound too, that would make me consider changing up their role sometimes.

Clanrats very much do damage at larger sizes, and they get the shield either way. I would go with spears unless it is a smaller unit (though really I would always max out or just take something else); the idea of sword in front spear in back is great--unless you are the one charging. It also makes the penalty for being outmaneuvered higher; by putting a unit on either flank the enemy can strand the models in the middle out of combat and unable to pile in without breaking the unit's coherency. Finally, it limits your options in terms of retreat & charge, which clanrats can do in the same turn with +2" on the retreat move no less.

For damage reference, a 40 man unit of spears can reasonably expect to get 30 attacks, which works out to 10 wounds at rend - damage 1. That is not a lot, but it is far from insignificant. Especially on such a cheap unit.

I'll keep an eye out for both books then - might have to hunt around though. Shame that BL hasn't put some stuff like that back into print as digital/ebooks.


Ninth interesting views regarding the screening and I can see what you mean about some issues with the enemy working against it too. I do agree that clan rats are certainly a unit that want's to go maximum, especially since it gives them a bonus. Even though many might not make it to combat intact it at least gives them the greatest chance.

Hey if they do not make it to combat it means the enemy put offensive effort into killing, you know, clanrats. Little 5 point terds that are there to hold objectives and die so something better gets to live. And they do just enough damage that they generally do need to be killed.

Yep agreed, if they've spent all that time killing one unit of clan rats then there's likely more clan rats to come and other nastiesin the army!

Spears let you get a 3rd rank to be in range, which you'd naturally end up being in a position to do that with a 40-man blob.

If you've got, say, a 10-man wide unit of 20 swords, they should all be able to attack if you get mugged by 3 palladors, but not against a Warboss or smaller (at least in the first round).
But if you're doing so with 40 spears, you could easily get ~32+, after piling in and all that.

20 4's & 4's would give 5 wounds to save against,
32 5's & 4's -"- 5.3

And since you've got more spears hitting, they get a greater benefit from the warlord's Gnash Gnaw ability (+1 attack).

I'm also finding it way more common to end up bunching rather than keeping neat, wide lines, but as soon as your rats start dieing, you get to the small unit sizes where swords start doing better than spears.