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Hi noticed alot of Kill team kits have dropped off GW website and a few are listed as last chance to buy any thoughts on what this might mean for longevity of game?

With luck, same thing as Adeptus Titanicus ie the game was so bloody popular it sold out way faster than they expected(AT sold expected year's supply in matter of months...) and get restock like AT is getting for their "last chance to buy". As it is we don't know are those really last chance to buy or not.

Either way more products are said to come so game is staying around. In that case in future better to buy stuff you want right away(I only got 1 mortis transfer sheet...Good thing they are coming back!)

vicia wrote:
Hi noticed alot of Kill team kits have dropped off GW website and a few are listed as last chance to buy any thoughts on what this might mean for longevity of game?

The only thing labelled "Kill Team" required to play Kill Team is the rulebook. It's the discounted bundles of terrain, terrain + team, or commanders that seem to be leaving. All that is stuff that eats shelf/warehouse space while making LESS money than the regular 40k merch that's 100% Kill Team useful. GW got its launch-time cash infusion from all the discount boxes, and discount boxes always eventually run out. This is nothing new or unusual for GW, every big box goes OOP sooner or later.

Thing is though last chance stuff includes elements that you CANNOT get elsewhere. Ergo it's not just discount box...You actually will be unable to get everything.

But of course they could be coming back once restocked.

I don't think it means anything in terms of Kill Team, or any other specialist game, longevity.

In the terms of Kill Team, I think that the starter was loss leader like product GW wasn't sure how popular it was going to be. I think the same could say about the Killzones too. Not that I think GW actually sold them at a loss, but they just didn't make usual profit they do. These products sold pretty quickly and well and GW hasn't bothered with a restock for whatever reason.

As for Commanders, I think it was sold in an undesirable way. A single model marked up $10+ US for some cards is an express bullet train Skippville for most players. Especially when we are talking about a single model going for more than $20 anyways. And that is before even talking about Commanders probably not being the best initial expansion for Kill Team. The game mode itself seems largely rejected by Kill Team players or at best a side version of how to play Kill Team. I think going forward GW is going include a Commander model with faction starters/expansions making the product a little more palatable.

 John Prins wrote:

vicia wrote:
Hi noticed alot of Kill team kits have dropped off GW website and a few are listed as last chance to buy any thoughts on what this might mean for longevity of game?

The only thing labelled "Kill Team" required to play Kill Team is the rulebook. It's the discounted bundles of terrain, terrain + team, or commanders that seem to be leaving. All that is stuff that eats shelf/warehouse space while making LESS money than the regular 40k merch that's 100% Kill Team useful. GW got its launch-time cash infusion from all the discount boxes, and discount boxes always eventually run out. This is nothing new or unusual for GW, every big box goes OOP sooner or later.

Except those boxes do have content not found anywhere else - the tokens, the missions and the tactics.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 John Prins wrote:

vicia wrote:
Hi noticed alot of Kill team kits have dropped off GW website and a few are listed as last chance to buy any thoughts on what this might mean for longevity of game?

The only thing labelled "Kill Team" required to play Kill Team is the rulebook. It's the discounted bundles of terrain, terrain + team, or commanders that seem to be leaving. All that is stuff that eats shelf/warehouse space while making LESS money than the regular 40k merch that's 100% Kill Team useful. GW got its launch-time cash infusion from all the discount boxes, and discount boxes always eventually run out. This is nothing new or unusual for GW, every big box goes OOP sooner or later.

Except those boxes do have content not found anywhere else - the tokens, the missions and the tactics.

Okay, but my point stands - none of that stuff is in any way necessary to play Kill Team. All the extra boxes going OOP is as relevant to Kill Team as Forgebane or Wake the Dead going OOP for WH40K.

You can easily sub out the tokens, 3d print them or buy a 3rd party set. The tactics are all online or in apps. Ar2 the missions not in the rulebook?

Also I just picked up the new Admech box with infiltrators in and it has all of the tactics cards I think. 16 admech tactics, and 5 commander cards. It also comes with a fully set of tokens and 4 Admech themed missions. Not sure If they are reprints of the existing stuff, or a mix of new stuff, but it's proof that GW will continue to make existing cardstock available different forms.

Then enjoy not playing at GW stores.

tneva82 wrote:
Thing is though last chance stuff includes elements that you CANNOT get elsewhere. Ergo it's not just discount box...You actually will be unable to get everything.

But of course they could be coming back once restocked.

What is it you can't get elsewhere? I thought all kill team was just re-branded 40k minis...? I've played kill team and have all possibilities (for one army) and even more than what's allowed in kill team, without ever buying a kill team box.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
Then enjoy not playing at GW stores.

Yeah sure, I would never play at a GW store, those places sound awful to play at by the rumours I hear. I prefer playing at open accepting places with friends, not in a hostile environment that denies creativity. Are you even allowed to play Kill Team in a GW store? I would imagine they'd deny that too sooner or later.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

Except those boxes do have content not found anywhere else - the tokens, the missions and the tactics.

I'm sure if Kill Team is such a great game, all of this content (except physical stuff like tokens) will be available elsewhere. Keep in mind people are still playing BFG or GorkaMorka without anyone selling them missions, rules or tokens.

 Flinty wrote:
You can easily sub out the tokens, 3d print them or buy a 3rd party set. The tactics are all online or in apps. Ar2 the missions not in the rulebook?

There is no legitimate source of the tactics and the missions aren't in any of the books. Currently 44 of the 93 missions are available only in the team starters and kill zones.

Note that the new admech box does not contain the extra cards from the dominus box, for example, only the commander tactics from the commander book.

The starter box didn't include any faction missions so we don't know if future team boxes will contain the missions from previous team boxes (as admech and GSC didn't have any faction missions previously).

Baxx wrote:

I'm sure if Kill Team is such a great game, all of this content (except physical stuff like tokens) will be available elsewhere. Keep in mind people are still playing BFG or GorkaMorka without anyone selling them missions, rules or tokens.

Whether the materials are available to be pirated isn't really the point. If game content is being made unavailable within a year of release that speaks poorly for future support.

Hopefully we'll get an omnibus with all of the tactics and missions.

So to be clear the command boxes that are going had tokens (so what...), tactics (that's annoying) and did they have missions as well?

Maybe this is just an american thing, but who cares. All the models are still available and all the other over priced crap they bundled in can be found online. In my area at least the nearest GW store is the size of a large closest and closes at like 8pm. Nothing lost not being able to play there.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
So to be clear the command boxes that are going had tokens (so what...), tactics (that's annoying) and did they have missions as well?

The commander boxes did not have missions.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Maybe this is just an american thing, but who cares. All the models are still available and all the other over priced crap they bundled in can be found online. In my area at least the nearest GW store is the size of a large closest and closes at like 8pm. Nothing lost not being able to play there.

Finding the missions is not easy (there are 93 - how many do you have copies of?) and, as I've already posted, it's not about whether you can pirate this stuff it's about whether this is an indication of support for the game tailing off.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

Finding the missions is not easy (there are 93 - how many do you have copies of?) and, as I've already posted, it's not about whether you can pirate this stuff it's about whether this is an indication of support for the game tailing off.

Yeah, and I bet most of those 93 are about the same basic dozen or missions with a slight twist to make use of the terrain packaged with them. I really feel if you have played enough Kill Team to have completely worn out the missions in the main rule book and any other you happen to have, you should probably be able to come up with your own by then and be just as good and balanced as any that GW packaged with Killzones or other boxes. If you have a 40k BRB on hand, that thing is chock full of mission fodder that can be modified into a workable game for Kill Team.

I have the main rule book, 3 Kill Zones and a couple of faction starters. Trust me, you aren't going to find skirmish game Nirvana out of the Kill Team mission cards in there. Most missions are roll dice for random things to happen and the chance to roll more dice. The usual GW affair.

Actually, most of them have nothing at all to do with scenery or roll for random thing (I have all of them so I don't need to guess)

And missions aren't even all...tactics. So you don't buy the now OOP box you are at in game disadvantage. Have fun.

tneva82 wrote:
And missions aren't even all...tactics. So you don't buy the now OOP box you are at in game disadvantage. Have fun.

Yep, at any official event. (because someone will come and say that you can just pirate them)

I've been using complete rule sets for multiple games that haven't been supported by GW for 15-20 years. If GW suddenly stop selling Blood Bowl or Necromunda stuff, pm me, I got 100% everything covered. I would expect someone did the same for Kill Team (if it is good enough to survive without GW support).

Baxx wrote:
I've been using complete rule sets for multiple games that haven't been supported by GW for 15-20 years. If GW suddenly stop selling Blood Bowl or Necromunda stuff, pm me, I got 100% everything covered. I would expect someone did the same for Kill Team (if it is good enough to survive without GW support).

That isn't the problem. The problem is that this might be a sign of diminishing support at a point when we don't even have a full tactic set for all of the basic factions. The game is still incomplete.

Ok but get in line, still waiting for cards, dice, pitches, balls, minis, wizards, inducements and star players for 10+ Blood Bowl teams. People wasn't sure if those would be completed either, but GW is still at it (going slowly).

 Scott-S6 wrote:

Baxx wrote:
I've been using complete rule sets for multiple games that haven't been supported by GW for 15-20 years. If GW suddenly stop selling Blood Bowl or Necromunda stuff, pm me, I got 100% everything covered. I would expect someone did the same for Kill Team (if it is good enough to survive without GW support).

That isn't the problem. The problem is that this might be a sign of diminishing support at a point when we don't even have a full tactic set for all of the basic factions. The game is still incomplete.

Let's wait for the sky to fall before proclaiming 'diminishing support'.
A. How much support do you expect? This isn't a game that requires a constant flood of new releases for 30 years to stay relevant. Not that GW hasn't tried, with 80000000000000000000000 releases already. They promised retailers 18 months of support at launch for Kill Team. Will you throw away your stuff at 18 months + 1 day if there is nothing else forthcoming?
B. Sure, some stuff is not available now, and might not be for a while, or ever again. In many cases, this is tied to printed items that aren't done in house. Every indication is stuff has been selling like hotcakes, so it's not bad sales. It's not simple to get a restock on items from China overnight, especially things like the fancy mounted card mapboards that are in the Kill Zones. And, GW does make mistakes, too...it came out at the Horus Heresy weekender they printed what they thought was a years supply of Mortis and Gryphonicus decals for Adeptus Titanicus...that sold out in a little over a month.

Do you enjoy the game? Is it fun? Do your friends play and like it? Then worry less about 'support', and more about playing some games. I guarantee you'll be happier doing that, than fretting on messages boards.

Well they just killed another great money-saver, that being the Promethium Refinery. This is in the same month that they raised prices on Star Collecting! boxes.

Methinks they're killing off anything with significant discounts, which the Killzones certainly were.

Was going to do a whole Deathworld table after getting two of those boxes. Can't now. Oh well 'feth me' I guess. Thanks GW!

Baxx wrote:
Ok but get in line, still waiting for cards, dice, pitches, balls, minis, wizards, inducements and star players for 10+ Blood Bowl teams. People wasn't sure if those would be completed either, but GW is still at it (going slowly).

So if they were discontinuing teams while still in this state them that would be bad?

It was mentioned elsewhere(Dakkadakka or FB) that Kill Team sold better than GW expected. They had a million copies ready to sell over the year and they all sold out within a month or two. The problem is that GW don't do their printing in house so they have to contract it externally which means they can either underestimate or overestimate demand. In this case they severely underestimated the demand. All the boards that come in the kill zones are printed by external companies so if it is running out it is because their entire stock is out and they must re-plan a second release through their contractors. By all accounts the reasons for the early Last Chance to Buy it is simply because it sold better than expected.

Also, with Kill Team Arena it is becoming evident that GW wants this thing to be quite serious. Kill Team Arena sold out immediately with further orders coming in when it was released here.

It's allready a bit complicated because they started introducing "resources" after the 5th team, so the first teams aren't up to date with the latest (star players, inducements, wizards).

We still have all the teams and star players from previous edition, so it would only be slightly unbalanced for those teams without the new content (balls, wizards, star players, pitches).

I would say it would be sub-optimal.

 Eldarsif wrote:
It was mentioned elsewhere(Dakkadakka or FB) that Kill Team sold better than GW expected. They had a million copies ready to sell over the year and they all sold out within a month or two. The problem is that GW don't do their printing in house so they have to contract it externally which means they can either underestimate or overestimate demand. In this case they severely underestimated the demand. All the boards that come in the kill zones are printed by external companies so if it is running out it is because their entire stock is out and they must re-plan a second release through their contractors. By all accounts the reasons for the early Last Chance to Buy it is simply because it sold better than expected.

Also, with Kill Team Arena it is becoming evident that GW wants this thing to be quite serious. Kill Team Arena sold out immediately with further orders coming in when it was released here.

Maybe they should do pre-orders for more than a week in advance?

craggy wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
It was mentioned elsewhere(Dakkadakka or FB) that Kill Team sold better than GW expected. They had a million copies ready to sell over the year and they all sold out within a month or two. The problem is that GW don't do their printing in house so they have to contract it externally which means they can either underestimate or overestimate demand. In this case they severely underestimated the demand. All the boards that come in the kill zones are printed by external companies so if it is running out it is because their entire stock is out and they must re-plan a second release through their contractors. By all accounts the reasons for the early Last Chance to Buy it is simply because it sold better than expected.

Also, with Kill Team Arena it is becoming evident that GW wants this thing to be quite serious. Kill Team Arena sold out immediately with further orders coming in when it was released here.

Maybe they should do pre-orders for more than a week in advance?

I don't see that changing things much. Unless you are talking about pre-order several months in advance when the product is being manufactured and in the que. In the case of Kill Team, I still don't think that would help as 7th edition Kill Team was kinda waste of time that could be basically summarized (If I remember correctly as someone that played more Heralds of Ruins Kill Team in 7th) as: 200 points, Infantry Only, No +2 save models, each model is its own unit, oh and by the way, you still need your faction's codex and BRB. There was no guarantee that the current Kill Team would be as more well received of the previous Kill Team or any other specialist game to warrant any but the most zealous GW fans or players playing both a GSC and Skitarri army who could also use some terrain. If anything, I could see potential low pre-order numbers further reducing the overall Kill Team starter sets if very few people were willing to put money down for a historically tepid specialist game largely played by beginners until they had at least a 500 point 40k army.

Given what was in the Kill Team starter set, I feel that GW sold it more of a loss leader than typical. Not to say they sold it at a loss, just that GW didn't make their usual profit off it even grading on the curve of their usually slightly reduced cost of boxed sets compared to buying all the models and books separate. I am sure if GW thought this would sell better they would have either creating a bigger print run and/or sold it a higher price point.