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I ask because I believe, if I remember correctly, their shoulder pads are already molded into the easy to build Primaris Marines. And, I have yet to see any way to convert these into the specialized shoulder pad of the Deathwatch (no transfers, no way to add the extra ridge on the top, etc.).

This is just more a question of curiosity than anything else.

Thanks

SG

Not without a lot of cutting and swearing.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
Not without a lot of cutting and swearing.

Very, very well put! I have seen people using Dark Vengeance Space Marines and Terminators, scraping off everything DA related (which had to be difficult, time consuming, and required a lot of swearing) so that they could be used in a different Space Marine army.

SG

You don't HAVE to swap out the shoulder pads...at all. I doubt literally anyone would call foul if you just painted the left arm silver and called it a day.

That's what I am doing for my DW Primaris, although I am pretty confident with my free-handing skills, so I am also painting a golden =][= symbol in the center with all the little silver lettering surrounding it.

But if you don't want to, or feel you cannot, do that level of freehand, straight up silver should be just fine. Any extra effort beyond this is for your own personal standard

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I don't see why not! You'll be missing a fancy pauldron, but painted up appropriately I can't see anyone caring really.

If you want to enter tournaments it would be worth checking with the organiser to be safe though.

 Stux wrote:
If you want to enter tournaments it would be worth checking with the organiser to be safe though.

I would be SHOCKED if a tournament required the fancy pauldrons be modeled. I'd actually not be surprised if no one even noticed if they weren't modeled.
It's like requiring an army using the UM Chapter tactic be painted blue and that the U symbol. No Tourney requires that, nor should they be allowed to require it.

If the armour is black, left arm is silver and the right shoulder has a Chapter icon, they are technically more WYSIWYG then other official GW models *cough* Tac Marines without Bolt pistols *cough*
And no one calls those model out as "illegal", or even bats a eye about it.

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My DW Primaris are all from the Dark Imperium box, except the Inceptors. It needs a fair amount of cutting but the actual process isn't too difficult. All of the shoulder pad pieces are easy to get a knife at and the models are constructed in such a way that you don't see any of the damage once the new pads are in place. The only thing you need to watch out for is making sure you cut away enough of the shoulder pad. It's very easy to not cut/shave enough away and be left with a shoulder pad that looks awkward.

Slipspace wrote:
My DW Primaris are all from the Dark Imperium box, except the Inceptors. It needs a fair amount of cutting but the actual process isn't too difficult. All of the shoulder pad pieces are easy to get a knife at and the models are constructed in such a way that you don't see any of the damage once the new pads are in place. The only thing you need to watch out for is making sure you cut away enough of the shoulder pad. It's very easy to not cut/shave enough away and be left with a shoulder pad that looks awkward.

I totally agree. I also covnerted all the shoulder pads from DI to Deathwatch, including the Inceptors (you just need to cut away the top trim from the DW pads).
Not hard at all, but yeah, 5-15 minutes per miniature more assembly time.

Yeah they can absolutely be used. Just paint the left arm silver. If you want to go the extra mile, get the deathwatch upgrade sprue and put the little =][= icon on the sergeant shoulder.

While I don't intend to do it to every marine in my DI box, I got a few copies of issue 1 of Conquest in stores, netting an ETB Intercessor sprue on each for £3 each, so I wound up with 12. Not wanting 4 sets of 3 identical marines, I actually replaced most of their left arms with spare oldmarine arms, letting me use the unique BA pads, either holding their rifles, with an auspex, the sergeants chainsword, some bolt pistols out etc . With a little adjoining of 2 elbows, or gluing the shoulder lower, but the pad in the normal location higher on the shoulder to make the arms seem longer to compensate, I made a good number of fairly good looking BA primaris. Yet to be painted, but I should expect you might manage the same

Quasistellar wrote:
Yeah they can absolutely be used. Just paint the left arm silver. If you want to go the extra mile, get the deathwatch upgrade sprue and put the little =][= icon on the sergeant shoulder.

Yup, absolutely this. I just went with painting the left arm and shoulder silver, but it would not be too much work to get the upgrade sprue and add the shoulder with some cutting if you feel the need. Personally, I am just fluffing the lack of the shoulder icon as something all Primaris DW have due to being new and recent recruits of the DW.

 ikeulhu wrote:
I am just fluffing the lack of the shoulder icon as something all Primaris DW have due to being new and recent recruits of the DW.

This is brilliant, actually

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Thanks, I felt the same about the fluff for your mixed Omega chapter!

 Galef wrote:

 Stux wrote:
If you want to enter tournaments it would be worth checking with the organiser to be safe though.

I would be SHOCKED if a tournament required the fancy pauldrons be modeled. I'd actually not be surprised if no one even noticed if they weren't modeled.
It's like requiring an army using the UM Chapter tactic be painted blue and that the U symbol. No Tourney requires that, nor should they be allowed to require it.

If the armour is black, left arm is silver and the right shoulder has a Chapter icon, they are technically more WYSIWYG then other official GW models *cough* Tac Marines without Bolt pistols *cough*
And no one calls those model out as "illegal", or even bats a eye about it.

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I do absolutely agree with you, it would be ridiculous for a TO to disallow it.

Technically they could have grounds to through, as by an extremely strict interpretation of having the correct models it wouldn't be allowed as DW technically have their own parts. But in practice I couldn't see a tournament actually being that strict! Not to mention that tournaments generally have provisions to allow a level of conversion, which would surely cover this!

I will apply Galef idea of the Golden icon paint. I am using my DI intercesors for my DW because I have already more tan enought Ultramarines Intercessors.

 Stux wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Stux wrote:
If you want to enter tournaments it would be worth checking with the organiser to be safe though.

I would be SHOCKED if a tournament required the fancy pauldrons be modeled. I'd actually not be surprised if no one even noticed if they weren't modeled.
It's like requiring an army using the UM Chapter tactic be painted blue and that the U symbol. No Tourney requires that, nor should they be allowed to require it.

If the armour is black, left arm is silver and the right shoulder has a Chapter icon, they are technically more WYSIWYG then other official GW models *cough* Tac Marines without Bolt pistols *cough*
And no one calls those model out as "illegal", or even bats a eye about it.

-

I do absolutely agree with you, it would be ridiculous for a TO to disallow it.

Technically they could have grounds to through, as by an extremely strict interpretation of having the correct models it wouldn't be allowed as DW technically have their own parts. But in practice I couldn't see a tournament actually being that strict! Not to mention that tournaments generally have provisions to allow a level of conversion, which would surely cover this!

Then just argue all that Fortis Killteam was recruited from Ultramarines.

You won't be able to win against that as nothing states each Deathwatch member has to be modeled with differing shoulder pads.

I havent done this with DI Intercessors but I did it waaaay back in the day with Dark Vengeance and Ultramarine shoulder pads and its super easy. All you have to do is assemble the model like normal. Then you go to the left shoulder pad and cut a small chunk out of the top, sides, and font, basically removing the smooth surface and leaving trapezoidal shape with the pin and arm joint remaining. After that all you do is glue on your DW shoulderpad! If you have issues with it seating correctly you can always shave a bit more off the front, or if too much is taken off put a dab of green stuff, but its almost unnecessary unless you really screwed up.

I did exactly what Generalchaos is describing. Worked great.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Stux wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Stux wrote:
If you want to enter tournaments it would be worth checking with the organiser to be safe though.

I would be SHOCKED if a tournament required the fancy pauldrons be modeled. I'd actually not be surprised if no one even noticed if they weren't modeled.
It's like requiring an army using the UM Chapter tactic be painted blue and that the U symbol. No Tourney requires that, nor should they be allowed to require it.

If the armour is black, left arm is silver and the right shoulder has a Chapter icon, they are technically more WYSIWYG then other official GW models *cough* Tac Marines without Bolt pistols *cough*
And no one calls those model out as "illegal", or even bats a eye about it.

-

I do absolutely agree with you, it would be ridiculous for a TO to disallow it.

Technically they could have grounds to through, as by an extremely strict interpretation of having the correct models it wouldn't be allowed as DW technically have their own parts. But in practice I couldn't see a tournament actually being that strict! Not to mention that tournaments generally have provisions to allow a level of conversion, which would surely cover this!

Then just argue all that Fortis Killteam was recruited from Ultramarines.

You won't be able to win against that as nothing states each Deathwatch member has to be modeled with differing shoulder pads.

Look, by the very strictest interpretation of Datasheets being for their models (which is in the game rules - it is stated) Deathwatch units are represented by Deathwatch models, which means having the official shoulder pads.

That's all I'm saying.

I probably shouldn't have even mentioned it because it would take the most officious TO in the world to be that strict and it's unlikely to ever come up.

That said, isn't the DW Intercessors box just an Intercessors kit and the DW upgrade sprue?
If the instructions in the box do clearly state to put the DW sculped shoulder pad there, or the datasheet in the box is a copy of the DW intercessor kill team datasheet that argument is sound.
If this is not the case, the DW Intercessors box is only just a normal Intercessors box with bonus bitz


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Like you say, we are all just being a little retentive at this point. Convert them on or just paint them silver, happy xeno-hunting!

Do tournaments mandate accurate paint schemes now?

Couldn’t you simply paint them however and do counts as Deathwatch? Wysiwig isn’t even in the rule book anymore.

 argonak wrote:
Do tournaments mandate accurate paint schemes now?

Couldn’t you simply paint them however and do counts as Deathwatch? Wysiwig isn’t even in the rule book anymore.

There is a difference in that DW kits are supplied with different pauldrons. It's not just a different paint scheme, the models themselves are different.

However, as we've said, it's an extremely minor difference that likely no one at all cares about for any practical purposes.

You don't need to do anything at all, I have a crimson fists army and use the Deathwatch codex because I like it. Everything is 100 percent wysiwg just without being painted as Deathwatch. Marines are marines.

Tbh that's fairly accurate. My BA successor used to often be played as Salamanders with a converted commander standing in for HeStan, instead of the BA codex in 5th till the Ward 5ed BA came out. They are really just a faction keyword as well, these days. Deathwatch instead of Blood Angels or <Codex>.

You can get transfers and 3d printed chapter icons that can be put onto the quick-build primaris easily. Almost all 60 of my intercessors are using glued on chapter badges for both the chapter and deathwatch symbols.

I carved back the shoulders on some inceptors to tithe them to the Deathwatch. Pretty easy work.

 Stux wrote:

 argonak wrote:
Do tournaments mandate accurate paint schemes now?

Couldn’t you simply paint them however and do counts as Deathwatch? Wysiwig isn’t even in the rule book anymore.

There is a difference in that DW kits are supplied with different pauldrons. It's not just a different paint scheme, the models themselves are different.

However, as we've said, it's an extremely minor difference that likely no one at all cares about for any practical purposes.

I think the crux of this line of thought ends up reverting to personal opinion, rather than anything supported by rules.

For example, I could refute that while the DW Intercessor box does come with the DW shoulders, the kit ALSO comes with plain ones, which are legal to use. So while the instructions may SUGGEST to use the DW shoulders should be used, it isn't a requirement. Which is kinda the point of optional bits. They're optional.
If I buy DW Intercessors and choose to not use the DW shoulders, 100% of the model is STILL from the DW Intercessor box....which just so happen to be identical to the Dark Imperium or ETB Intercessors in design/aesthetics.

So this all boils down to personal opinion and I cannot see a legit argument from either RAW or pure logic that could convince anyone that the DW pads are required.
I think we all agree that you don't need the embossed shoulder pads and that just painting the left arm silver is enough if you are still using the main DW paint scheme.
But since you don't even have to keep the DW paint scheme, that's not even needed

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If you have any remote proficiency with the use of a hobby knife and a file, you will have no issues whatsoever. I have converted many of the characters into Blood Angels without much issue (I did have to reconstruct part of the under-pauldron on a Lieutenant after I got a little too chop happy, but that was the worst that happened). It is really not that hard, though I found converting the Dark Vengeance Dark Angels into Deathwatch and Crimson Fists to be a challenge and actually fun, rather than a pain.

Looking at costs on Intercesors on Evilbay, its same price, sometimes cheaper to just buy full build intercessors from one of the newer boxed sets over DI intercessors.

Either way, I ended up cutting away shoulder pads to convert intercessors and Hellblasters to Deathwatch. It was not that hard.

Good luck.

 Stux wrote:

 argonak wrote:
Do tournaments mandate accurate paint schemes now?

Couldn’t you simply paint them however and do counts as Deathwatch? Wysiwig isn’t even in the rule book anymore.

There is a difference in that DW kits are supplied with different pauldrons. It's not just a different paint scheme, the models themselves are different.

However, as we've said, it's an extremely minor difference that likely no one at all cares about for any practical purposes.

So my question to you is, if I just took all the Ultramarine shoulder pads from the Deathwatch kits and used that, is there an ACTUAL difference? The answer is no.

There isn't a "strictest interpretation" outside your own imagination.