Switch Theme:

Would your army suck without stratagems?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

Been playing Nids a bit lately and got to thinking even if they had no stratagems they'd still be a good army with some nice options and tactics.
How would your army due sans stratas?

Hell if they disappeared altogether would it level the playing field?

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Well, Marines suck with strategems...
   
Made in us
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit




San Jose, CA

The Newman wrote:
Well, Marines suck with strategems...


damn, beat me to it.

I think my Mechanicus would definitely be worse. Any knights unable to use rotate ions would prob suck.
   
Made in ca
Wicked Wych With a Whip




Dark elves would still be quite good.
   
Made in de
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade




More often than not I still have CP left at the end of the game and still win most of the time with DG, so I'd say it's not that important for them.
Daemons also have few useful stratagems in the first place, but Warpsurge and deep strike go a long way.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



NE Ohio, USA

No.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Sgt. Cortez wrote:

Daemons also have few useful stratagems in the first place, but Warpsurge and deep strike go a long way.


Deep Strike literally carries the Daemon Codex
(Banner of Blood for Bloodletters), Warp Surge

I enjoy Demonic Possession, if they perils, most psykers don't have 5+ Wounds, so you're in decent shape of killing a psyker from perils.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Yes. My mono Knights lose bigtime without Stratagems.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

As an aside I think this shows that the key part, perhaps too critical, to 40k in its current incarnation is stratagems. I personally think that they made a huge mistake by making stratagems so varied and so crucial to army and list design.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

Eldar & Dark Eldar would still be good, but definitely suffer for it.

Fire & Fade
Forewarned
Agents of Vect
Lightning Fast Reactions
Ability to deep strike nearly anything

These are all pivotal. Losing the ability to deep strike would mean that most of their stuff is completely vulnerable turn 1.

But if everyone else ALSO lost their stratagems, it wouldn't be as bad.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




For some time the recommendation is you can only run Stratagems from your Warlord's faction. It fixes the issue for soup (somewhat) and makes it so that Mono factions aren't needlessly screwwed over.
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived




On moon miranda.

I don't think either my Iron Warriors or Guard armies would be impacted too much, honestly the biggest loss would be losing Daemonforge for the IW's and command rerolls for the IG (have lots of CP but relatively tame stratagems). My Eldar would miss fire and fade I think the most but wouldnt be crippled.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

Heavy Gear Painting Log, Northern Guard, Southern Republican Army, and Terrain
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Heed is the thing that makes GM NDKs best GK unit. So yeah if it was removed GK would get worse, as hard as it may be to imagine.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




without stratagems orkz would be bottom tier without a doubt.

Loota's would go from being somewhat scary to being unplayable again, Ork Boyz would only be usable as a Evil Sunz faction, and only do use "Da Jump" as often as possible to get that 8' charge off, also Evil Sunz boyz actually would have a chance of reaching combat with their +1 to move and +1 to advance.

I literally think every Kulture in the Ork Codex would become unplayable except for Evil Sunz and I truly believe most of the units would become borderline unplayable. Basically it would be a rewind back to the index where only 2-3 units were worth fielding and everything else was garbage.

If at first you don't succeed then Sky Diving isn't for you. 
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





USA

I think a lot of armies would go more mech.

My Mechdar only uses the 10 CPs for rerolls on damage mostly. I normally have 1 to 4 CPs left over

When I used to play FootDar I would run out of CPs even if I had 12 or more.

 koooaei wrote:
We are rolling so many dice to have less time to realise that there is not much else to the game other than rolling so many dice.
 
   
Made in us
Witch Hunter Undercover in a Cult







My Deathwatch and Custodes really need the Teleportarium/Golden Light to get stuff up the table and avoid alpha-strikes, but other than that the stratagems are mostly situational perks.

Victoria est autem vita.

Stories at https://knightofthegrey.wordpress.com/
Game-related musings at https://thescenicdetour.wordpress.com/
Both updated irregularly 
   
Made in jp
Regular Dakkanaut





Guard dont need stratagems, we have orders to get by. That said Cadians would lag behind Catachan regiment by a bigger margin. Overlapping (+1 to hit something that is wounded) keeps Cadian mildly competitive.
   
Made in ca
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





London, Ontario

I usually play Mono-Guard, and the only thing I’d really miss is the combined squads stratagem.

I often run 3 Batallions at 1500 points, so I’ve got 18 CP to work with but I use them mostly for shooting rerolls.

For the fun and flavour of it, I use the commissar tank strat.

Everything else would just be “oh, hey! I could use a CP in this unusual situation, and I actually remembered to do that!”
   
Made in gb
Lethal Lhamean




Birmingham

I'd see virtually no change to my Dark Eldar. I don't play Black Heart so I don't use Vect anyway, that basically just leaves me with LFR, Alliance of Agony and the Covens re-roll failed wounds strat, and I don't always make much use of them. As a result I barely have mroe than 6CP in a list and wouldn't even take a Battalion if I didn't need 3 Elites and 3 Heavy Support, but do resent the Archon tax.

My mates Tau would struggle though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Reemule wrote:
For some time the recommendation is you can only run Stratagems from your Warlord's faction. It fixes the issue for soup (somewhat) and makes it so that Mono factions aren't needlessly screwwed over.

This has always been a bad idea, elite armies would become increasingly punished for having the audacity to be an elite army. The problem has always been the way CP are generated and not who can use them, having them attached to the detachments you can take was always a bad idea.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/08 00:57:16


 
   
Made in us
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge





Pittsburgh, PA

I think the Ad Mech army I have would be weaker, but still playable. My Knights army would be significantly less effective, though, and I don’t even use a Castellan.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





Oregon, USA

Death Guard do fine with no stratagems, as we have very few, and most of the ones we have suck. I’d miss blowing up my own vehicles out of spite, but that’s about it...

The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
 
   
Made in gb
Orc Bully with a Peg Leg





London

The new GSC codex seems to be heavily dependant on stratagems.

"Satisfaction lies in the effort, not in the attainment. Full effort is full victory." - Gandhi

1000 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Orks live and die by their strategems so yes. Without them they would have to just try to get to other side, have no survivability and no damage output. Codex tellyporta

“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights
 
   
Made in ch
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





Yes, oh wait, we didn0t get any,

ANNNNDDD we are probably some of the worst off faction.


Makes you think that Stratagems as a whole are a bad idea and Special rules should make a comeback

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost.) 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

My Dark Reapers benefit from Fire & Fade.
The remaining pts are usually spent for rerolls of all kinds.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




My Blood Angels rely on their stratagems to make their style of play actually work. On Wings of Fire and Descent of Angels aren't so much stratagems as special rules you pay CPs for as they're so intrinsic to the character and style of the army. Things like Death Visions and Red Rampage are also vital for actually allowing the usually sub-par SM characters to achieve anything. By contrast, outside of the deep strike stratagem my Deathwatch are pretty indifferent. Yes, getting +1 to wound is great and very useful but I don't think it's as vital as some of the BA stratagems.

I think the whole concept of stratagems needs revisiting and rebalancing, as does the issue of CP generation. Unfortunately CPs/stratagems right now are just another area for GW to fail to balance properly.
   
Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard



UK

They all suck with them.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I think it's interesting how many people basically only use their cp for rerolls. It makes me wonder if maybe that stratagem isn't too powerful. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing command reroll nerfed (maybe once per game) or removed entirely since in my opinion it throws off the narrative of the game and frequently just serves to slow down the game while people hem and haw about if they want to reroll something.

As to the op question my armies would basically be fine. The only stratagem I consistantly play is the thousand sons one to let me swap powers mid game and that's usually just to get someone on a table they wouldn't normally be able to access. Webway would be a loss I guess but honestly if I couldn't just deep strike rubrics it would make scarab occult much more worthwhile.
   
Made in ca
Pewling Menial




I feel like armies without access to psykers or equivalents would suffer the most.
I play admech and without stratagems my army wouldnt be doing much.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

The Newman wrote:
Well, Marines suck with strategems...


There are a couple of fun ones.

I've had a couple of hilarious instances of people reserving in / deep striking in range of my Aggressors using an Auspex scan. Those aggressors can shoot up to 24 shots per model. With an auspex scan, 28-48 bolter shots per model. Add in -1 AP and rerolls with buffs, it's obscene.

Getting a smashcaptain into something important, and getting to fight a second time is fun too.

   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: