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Made in ca
Wicked Wych With a Whip




All the multi damage high strenght guns I have seen have a good ap, -4 or -5.

I don't think I have ever fired them at anything and made use of both the full damage or the full ap. Everything with a 3 up armor has an invul of some kind. Except a basic Marine and they only have 1 wound.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Baneblades and Monoliths come to mind I suppose.
   
Made in gb
Waaagh! Ork Warboss






Leman Russes, any of the Baneblade variants.

Morkanauts (by default), Gorkanauts, Stompas.

Monoliths, Doomsday Arks (but DDA have Quantam Shielding)

Land Raiders also for some reason don't have an Invul.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/02/10 12:56:24


+++++There are currently NINETY THREE (93) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Because some people get their knickers in a twist, I'll list these RaW 'oddities' in my sig. Sadly GW's promise of fixing their broken rules has itself been broken. Zoom in to read them. RaW you cannot advance and then fire assault weapons, you can't shoot pistols if within 1" of an enemy; "minimum" ranges don't work; Seraphim have to re-roll saves that "fail" pre-re-roll; the game simply breaks if you ever have more than one wounded model in a unit; the game also breaks if a single rule ever tries to do multiple things simultaneously; Khârn punches himself in the face if he's not near some meatshields; Librarians on Bikes are locked to the Index power list, Howling Banshees can't declare a charge further than 12"; Spore Mines have an infinite range; Shroudpsalm technically doesn't do anything, only enemy models, not friendly models, have permission to move on top of a Skyshield Landing Pad; T'au have access to stackable Ignore Wounds (albeit against Mortal Wounds only); the T'au Early Warning Override Support System only works if a unit is "teleporting to the battlefield", not just arriving mid-battle; you can only ever use the Deathwatch Teleportarium Stratagem "once", and then never again in any battle after you use it; if a model splits fire, each weapon must target a different unit; a Tyrant Guard with Lashwhip can absorb an infinite amount of damage via Shieldwall between the time they die and the time they fight; Chapter Tactics on Successor Chapters don't actually do anything; Codex Leman Russ's can take an infinite amount of Hunter-Killer Missiles, Storm Bolters and Heavy Stubbers; Imothekh's 'Lord of the Storm' ability hits the "target unit" twice; "Airborne" units can't be charged by non-FLY units, but can be Heroically Intervened into, piled into, or consolidated into just fine by non-FLY units; Wave Serpents cannot be legally charged at by any model with a standard base; Slab Shields, along with the 'Take Cover!' stratagem no longer have any effect; and vehicles that are "slain" by a special effect do not trigger the "Explodes" ability; Taking any Forge World Space Marine Named Characters denies the use of a Chapter Tactic; and Chapter Tactics do not work on Successor Chapters.
--- Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities --- Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. --- Userscript to add a button to open all "[First Unread]" links on the page, hides the "[Blog View]" links, and adds a "Subscribed Threads" link to forum pages. 
   
Made in es
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot



Canary Island (Spain)

Redemptor Dreadnought

2500
1500
400 
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule





Depends on what you define as high armour. There's loads of 3+ save models with lots of wounds and no invuln, many listed above.

There are far fewer 2+ save models with lots of wounds and no invuln, but they do exist. Land Raiders being an obvious example.
   
Made in gb
Emboldened Warlock




Widnes UK

There are a lot of tanks with no invulnerable save, 5 of the 6 phoenix lords have no invuln with 6W and a 2+, wraithguard, vypers, wraithlord, eldar support weapons.

Ulthwe: 7500 points 
   
Made in gb
Pewling Menial





Often space marine/ CSM vehicles, e.g land raiders, predators, etc.

Most Guard Vehicles - Baneblades, Leman Russes etc.

A Bunch of Tyranid monsters (that are not HQ Choices, Carnefex etc.)

Monolith

Tau Vehicles - Devilfish, Hammerhead etc.

Ork Vehicles - Battlewagons

Praise the Omnissiah

About 3k of .

Imperial Knights (Valiant, Warden & Armigers)

Some Misc. Imperium units etc. Assassins...

About 2k of  
   
Made in gb
Waaagh! Ork Warboss






From Forgeworld, the Barbed Hierodule and Harridan have no invul. Also the Gauss Pylon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/10 13:00:53


+++++There are currently NINETY THREE (93) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Because some people get their knickers in a twist, I'll list these RaW 'oddities' in my sig. Sadly GW's promise of fixing their broken rules has itself been broken. Zoom in to read them. RaW you cannot advance and then fire assault weapons, you can't shoot pistols if within 1" of an enemy; "minimum" ranges don't work; Seraphim have to re-roll saves that "fail" pre-re-roll; the game simply breaks if you ever have more than one wounded model in a unit; the game also breaks if a single rule ever tries to do multiple things simultaneously; Khârn punches himself in the face if he's not near some meatshields; Librarians on Bikes are locked to the Index power list, Howling Banshees can't declare a charge further than 12"; Spore Mines have an infinite range; Shroudpsalm technically doesn't do anything, only enemy models, not friendly models, have permission to move on top of a Skyshield Landing Pad; T'au have access to stackable Ignore Wounds (albeit against Mortal Wounds only); the T'au Early Warning Override Support System only works if a unit is "teleporting to the battlefield", not just arriving mid-battle; you can only ever use the Deathwatch Teleportarium Stratagem "once", and then never again in any battle after you use it; if a model splits fire, each weapon must target a different unit; a Tyrant Guard with Lashwhip can absorb an infinite amount of damage via Shieldwall between the time they die and the time they fight; Chapter Tactics on Successor Chapters don't actually do anything; Codex Leman Russ's can take an infinite amount of Hunter-Killer Missiles, Storm Bolters and Heavy Stubbers; Imothekh's 'Lord of the Storm' ability hits the "target unit" twice; "Airborne" units can't be charged by non-FLY units, but can be Heroically Intervened into, piled into, or consolidated into just fine by non-FLY units; Wave Serpents cannot be legally charged at by any model with a standard base; Slab Shields, along with the 'Take Cover!' stratagem no longer have any effect; and vehicles that are "slain" by a special effect do not trigger the "Explodes" ability; Taking any Forge World Space Marine Named Characters denies the use of a Chapter Tactic; and Chapter Tactics do not work on Successor Chapters.
--- Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities --- Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. --- Userscript to add a button to open all "[First Unread]" links on the page, hides the "[Blog View]" links, and adds a "Subscribed Threads" link to forum pages. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Tyranids.

Carnifexes are 8 with a 3+, Trygons, Mawlocks,Tyranofexes, Exocrines, and Tervigons are 12 with a 3+, Harpies and Crones are 12 with a 4+.

A Jorgmdr. monster (2+ due to always in cover) gets you full value from those AP -4 D6 damage weapons.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Repulsor has no invulnerable save neither does the land raider, both of the best mainline battle tanks the Astartes have.
   
Made in au
Huge Hierodule





There's a lot of things, people just don't take them because invul is a lot better

P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






Bullgryns can effectively get a -1 armor save, if you stack barrier, get down and the take cover stratagem. They'd get a 2+ armor save against plasma that way, and have 3 wounds each.
   
Made in hk
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control




Just name any bad / non-competitive high-cost vehicles or Monsters in this game, and you get it.
   
Made in de
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought






Germany

Stux wrote:Depends on what you define as high armour. There's loads of 3+ save models with lots of wounds and no invuln, many listed above.

There are far fewer 2+ save models with lots of wounds and no invuln, but they do exist. Land Raiders being an obvious example.


The FW LR achilles has a 4+ inv. The LR excelsior has a 5+ inv. The FW relic LR proteus can get a 5+ inv.

BaconCatBug wrote:From Forgeworld, the Barbed Hierodule and Harridan have no invul. Also the Gauss Pylon.


The gauss pylon has a 5+ inv.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/10 16:44:47


 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut




During index times the T7 3+ 12W profile was the standard math hammer target.
   
Made in gb
Waaagh! Ork Warboss






Ah right, the Pylon has the aura that affects itself, my bad.

+++++There are currently NINETY THREE (93) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Because some people get their knickers in a twist, I'll list these RaW 'oddities' in my sig. Sadly GW's promise of fixing their broken rules has itself been broken. Zoom in to read them. RaW you cannot advance and then fire assault weapons, you can't shoot pistols if within 1" of an enemy; "minimum" ranges don't work; Seraphim have to re-roll saves that "fail" pre-re-roll; the game simply breaks if you ever have more than one wounded model in a unit; the game also breaks if a single rule ever tries to do multiple things simultaneously; Khârn punches himself in the face if he's not near some meatshields; Librarians on Bikes are locked to the Index power list, Howling Banshees can't declare a charge further than 12"; Spore Mines have an infinite range; Shroudpsalm technically doesn't do anything, only enemy models, not friendly models, have permission to move on top of a Skyshield Landing Pad; T'au have access to stackable Ignore Wounds (albeit against Mortal Wounds only); the T'au Early Warning Override Support System only works if a unit is "teleporting to the battlefield", not just arriving mid-battle; you can only ever use the Deathwatch Teleportarium Stratagem "once", and then never again in any battle after you use it; if a model splits fire, each weapon must target a different unit; a Tyrant Guard with Lashwhip can absorb an infinite amount of damage via Shieldwall between the time they die and the time they fight; Chapter Tactics on Successor Chapters don't actually do anything; Codex Leman Russ's can take an infinite amount of Hunter-Killer Missiles, Storm Bolters and Heavy Stubbers; Imothekh's 'Lord of the Storm' ability hits the "target unit" twice; "Airborne" units can't be charged by non-FLY units, but can be Heroically Intervened into, piled into, or consolidated into just fine by non-FLY units; Wave Serpents cannot be legally charged at by any model with a standard base; Slab Shields, along with the 'Take Cover!' stratagem no longer have any effect; and vehicles that are "slain" by a special effect do not trigger the "Explodes" ability; Taking any Forge World Space Marine Named Characters denies the use of a Chapter Tactic; and Chapter Tactics do not work on Successor Chapters.
--- Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities --- Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. --- Userscript to add a button to open all "[First Unread]" links on the page, hides the "[Blog View]" links, and adds a "Subscribed Threads" link to forum pages. 
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





USA

NightSpinners, Falcons, Flyers, and even the Wave Serpent (it does have a damage reducer of sorts)

I think most Wraith units have been mentioned as well.

So for his criteria met, about 90% of the Eldar list that he said isn't out there.


 koooaei wrote:
We are rolling so many dice to have less time to realise that there is not much else to the game other than rolling so many dice.
 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Land Raiders, Monoliths, Baneblades. Probably some of the FW big stuff.

Little tanks that don't have a ton of wounds are more likely to not have an invulnerable save, and are fine without it, but the big guys are too much to invest to not have a save.

Tank armor is pretty much meaningless, because few AT guns also have sufficiently low enough penetration to bounce off the armor, so tank resilience is basically exclusively in wound count.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/11 02:02:46


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in ca
Wicked Wych With a Whip




Do you see that stuff?

The only thing in the above list that I have faced was a land raider. It was a joke. I melted it in half a turn of blaster fire.

I think they realy need to rework the armor, ap, mortal wound, and feel no pain, system.
   
Made in hk
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control




Headlss wrote:
Do you see that stuff?

The only thing in the above list that I have faced was a land raider. It was a joke. I melted it in half a turn of blaster fire.

I think they realy need to rework the armor, ap, mortal wound, and feel no pain, system.


Yes, you got the point. I totally agree with you.

Nowadays what defines tough or fragile is no longer armor save. It is about inv save and minus to hit, who get the best of them are the true tough unit.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






LOTS of Walkers and MC's, many vehicles.

15k+ 12k+ 5k :Harlequin: 4k

Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

https://maddpaint.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





USA

I know my toughness 8 wraithlords and toughness 6 wraithguard rely more on that stat than a 3+ armor save or even 3 wounds to resist dying.

So Toughness is a metric.

I wish there could be some Ablative Armor or Reinforced Armor for 'LOW' toughness units to bump them up if they don't have an Invul save.
( you would have to have those restrictions or else franken units would appear)

 koooaei wrote:
We are rolling so many dice to have less time to realise that there is not much else to the game other than rolling so many dice.
 
   
Made in ca
Heroic Senior Officer





Krieg! What a hole...

Valkyrie, same armor as a LR, more wounds

Member of 40k Montreal There is only war in Montreal
Primarchs are a mistake
DKoK Blog:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/419263.page Have a look, I guarantee you will not see greyer armies, EVER! Now with at least 4 shades of grey

Savageconvoy wrote:
Snookie gives birth to Heavy Gun drone squad. Someone says they are overpowered. World ends.

 
   
Made in gb
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker





Luton, England

As others have said, most vehicles in the game lack an invulnerable save and have 3+ or better and lots of wounds.

Unfortunately you wont see most vehicles in the game if you are playing in a competitive meta, this is mainly due to the prevalence of Knights. Firstly most people pack the firepower to be able to take on the giant metal beast which means normal vehicles are no issue whatsoever. Secondly Knights and in particular the castellan can kill any other vehicle in a single volley.

This means that the best firepower tends to be multishot, medium AP, 2-3 damage weapons as they can still effectively take on armour whilst still being useful against all types of infantry.



If you would like to play a more balanced game then arrange it before hand, agree to take rounded all comers lists, play mono faction, no stratagem, highlander or one of the many other variants. The beauty of the game is that it can be played in many different ways, none necessarily better than another but trying them out can bring alot of variety to your hobby.


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