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If a Deathwatch Infantry Character has the The Beacon Angelis Relic and starts the game in a Drop Pod or in the Teleportarium, when he arrives on the battlefield, can a unit then teleport to him using this relic? The rules for all three (Drop Pod Assault, Teleportarium, and The Beacon Angelis) say they happen at the end of the movement phase.

I wasn't sure if there was an order for end of the movement phase actions. In this scenario, at the end of the movement phase, the bearer of The Beacon Angelis has to be placed on the battlefield by either Teleporting or Drop Pod Assaulting. Then once on the field, also at the end of a movement phase, a unit can teleport to within 6" of the relic.

If they all occur at the same time, then sequencing would apply

No. Because you would need to be able use them all at the same time and then choose the order before using any. However, if the character is not on the board at the end of the turn, you can't activate the The Beacon Angelis before you choose the come in via Drop Pod or Teleportarium. Once you've come on, the phase is over and you can't choose at add a new "End of Phase" action to the sequence.

 alextroy wrote:
No. Because you would need to be able use them all at the same time and then choose the order before using any. However, if the character is not on the board at the end of the turn, you can't activate the The Beacon Angelis before you choose the come in via Drop Pod or Teleportarium. Once you've come on, the phase is over and you can't choose at add a new "End of Phase" action to the sequence.

I think I agree with this. If the beacon wasn't available at the start of the end of turn, then it can't be used in that end of turn phase.

 alextroy wrote:
No. Because you would need to be able use them all at the same time and then choose the order before using any. However, if the character is not on the board at the end of the turn, you can't activate the The Beacon Angelis before you choose the come in via Drop Pod or Teleportarium. Once you've come on, the phase is over and you can't choose at add a new "End of Phase" action to the sequence.

If that were true you could never bring more than one unit in from off board per turn.

This feels a tad murky and like I’ve missed a memo, but if all have the same trigger, namely “at the end of the movement phase”, then you’d be free to sequence them as you choose.

 alextroy wrote:
No. Because you would need to be able use them all at the same time and then choose the order before using any. However, if the character is not on the board at the end of the turn, you can't activate the The Beacon Angelis before you choose the come in via Drop Pod or Teleportarium. Once you've come on, the phase is over and you can't choose at add a new "End of Phase" action to the sequence.

I disagree. You can continue to add End of Movement Phase effects to the sequence while you are resolving it.

 JohnnyHell wrote:


If that were true you could never bring more than one unit in from off board per turn.

This feels a tad murky and like I’ve missed a memo, but if all have the same trigger, namely “at the end of the movement phase”, then you’d be free to sequence them as you choose.

Agreed.

 Stux wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
No. Because you would need to be able use them all at the same time and then choose the order before using any. However, if the character is not on the board at the end of the turn, you can't activate the The Beacon Angelis before you choose the come in via Drop Pod or Teleportarium. Once you've come on, the phase is over and you can't choose at add a new "End of Phase" action to the sequence.

I disagree. You can continue to add End of Movement Phase effects to the sequence while you are resolving it.

No, you cannot. The end of the movement phase is a specific point in time. If you're not on the battlefield at the end of the phase you can't activate end of the phase abilities, because if you do then you illegally did the previous action before the end of the phase. The only reason we can even resolve multiple end of phase effects at once e.g. multiple simultaneous deep strikes is because the sequencing rule exists.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
No. Because you would need to be able use them all at the same time and then choose the order before using any. However, if the character is not on the board at the end of the turn, you can't activate the The Beacon Angelis before you choose the come in via Drop Pod or Teleportarium. Once you've come on, the phase is over and you can't choose at add a new "End of Phase" action to the sequence.

If that were true you could never bring more than one unit in from off board per turn.

This feels a tad murky and like I’ve missed a memo, but if all have the same trigger, namely “at the end of the movement phase”, then you’d be free to sequence them as you choose.

You can bring multiple unit in, but you have to declare all the units you are bringing in (along with any other End of Movement Phase actions you are taking) before resolving any of them. Then you Sequence them as you desire. You can't add to the sequence, because that is taking an action after the End of the Phase.

The only exceptions have to be in the rules for the End of Phase (etc.) action. For example the rules for Drop Pods tell you to disembark the units in passengers immediately after deploying the Drop Pod. This is explicit permission (requirement) to add a specific action to the End of Phase sequence.

@ BCB & Alextroy: I don't believe that "end of the movement phase" is a finite, one-time only, specific time in which only 1 action can be done. Otherwise, as others have mentions, you would only be able to bring in 1 unit per turn ever. Because once you resolve placing that 1 unit, the "end of the movement phase" would be over before another unit could be selected to drop in.
The "time period" is anywhere between completing the movement of your last unit that was on the board, to the beginning of the Psychic phase.

That also brings me to my next point, it does not say anyway in the BRB that all units must be declared they are coming in during any turn. It is just like moving units in the Movement phase. You may go 1 unit at a time to determine which units move.
So, during the end of your move phase, if you drop in a Character with the Beacon, it then becomes an available option to use. And until you move onto your Psychic Phase, it is STILL the end of your move phase.

-

So by that logic I can deep strike all my dudes first and then move my other units.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
So by that logic I can deep strike all my dudes first and then move my other units.

That... isn’t the same logic, but I suspect you know that.

By your logic above you could never deploy more than one unit from off the board per turn. Which isn’t the case, so you can quite obviously do “at the end of X phase” options sequentially, and nothing says you must declare all ‘deep strikes’ (using for shorthand; don’t flinch at the term) you intend to before resolving any, which is not the case as nothing says you must.

This is where Sequencing comes in

Warhammer 40,000 Core Rules wrote:Sequencing
While playing Warhammer 40,000, you’ll occasionally find that two or more rules are to be resolved at the same time – normally ‘at the start of the Movement phase’ or ‘before the battle begins’. When this happens during the game, the player whose turn it is chooses the order. If these things occur before or after the game, or at the start or end of a battle round, the players roll off and the winner decides in what order the rules are resolved.

In this case, you are trying to do multiple "End of Movement Phase" actions. You can do them all, but have to decide the order of them before you can do them. You can't choose to do things you couldn't do when you started.

 alextroy wrote:
This is where Sequencing comes in

Warhammer 40,000 Core Rules wrote:Sequencing
While playing Warhammer 40,000, you’ll occasionally find that two or more rules are to be resolved at the same time – normally ‘at the start of the Movement phase’ or ‘before the battle begins’. When this happens during the game, the player whose turn it is chooses the order. If these things occur before or after the game, or at the start or end of a battle round, the players roll off and the winner decides in what order the rules are resolved.

In this case, you are trying to do multiple "End of Movement Phase" actions. You can do them all, but have to decide the order of them before you can do them. You can't choose to do things you couldn't do when you started.

Right, so since it would be my turn when my Beacon Captian drops in, obviously I would decided he would drop first.
Then, since I have NOT moved onto the Psychic phase yet and therefore it is STILL the end of my movement phase, I could decide to use the Beacon.

As I stated before, "end of the move phase" is not define by the BRB, like at all, and therefore MUST be the time between moving your last and final unit and before the start of the next phase (Psychic).
If I choose not to start my Psychic phase, it cannot be proven to no longer be the "end of my move phase" and therefore I can continue to preform actions that require that "timing", including using the Beacon, or deciding to bring in other Reserves. I'd be following "Sequencing" RAW just fine

Nothing about what was quoted requires all things be available at the time the "sequencing" rule is called into play.
When do Reserves arrive? At the end of the move phase
When can I use the Beacon? At the end of the move phase. Since the Beacon bearer drop in "at the end of the move phase" and it would still BE the end of the move phase when the Beacon is used, permission is granted to use it.

-

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Stux wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
No. Because you would need to be able use them all at the same time and then choose the order before using any. However, if the character is not on the board at the end of the turn, you can't activate the The Beacon Angelis before you choose the come in via Drop Pod or Teleportarium. Once you've come on, the phase is over and you can't choose at add a new "End of Phase" action to the sequence.

I disagree. You can continue to add End of Movement Phase effects to the sequence while you are resolving it.

No, you cannot. The end of the movement phase is a specific point in time. If you're not on the battlefield at the end of the phase you can't activate end of the phase abilities, because if you do then you illegally did the previous action before the end of the phase. The only reason we can even resolve multiple end of phase effects at once e.g. multiple simultaneous deep strikes is because the sequencing rule exists.

Sure, that could be a rule. Shame they didn't write it like that. There really is very little information on how to deal with this sort of thing.

It's the only way the game can function at all.

What you're claiming is like me claiming "It's not a rule that dice have to be numbered 1 though 6" and having dice with all 6's.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
It's the only way the game can function at all.

What you're claiming is like me claiming "It's not a rule that dice have to be numbered 1 though 6" and having dice with all 6's.

Not really, because there is another clear alternative. I'm not saying it's right either, I'm saying there isn't enough evidence either way. Ok, we have to pick one. But that choice is arbitrary.

Except your alternative is provably incorrect because you cannot possibly have two "End of the Movement Phases", because by definition any previous "Ends" cannot be "Ends".

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Except your alternative is provably incorrect because you cannot possibly have two "End of the Movement Phases", because by definition any previous "Ends" cannot be "Ends".

I don't know. I think there's room for the counter-argument that the "end" is a period of time that must occur after all moves have taken place but before the Psychic phase, rather than a single instant in time where everything that happens must be taken into account instantly. I'm not saying it's one way or the other, merely that there's room for a debate about it and, as with so many things in 8th Edition, talk it over with your opponent before the game begins.

EDIT: For example, the weekend is made up of multiple points in time, has two days (one for each end), and encompasses a period rather than an instant. I'm just saying, the word "end" doesn't inherently mean a single instant in time.

I disagree, for the reason I stated above about dice. There is a minimum level of English language parsing to play the game, and sadly since we don't all speak Lojban (yet), we have to parse the game in such a way that it doesn't "break".

I mean, unless you want all my models rolling 6's to hit, wound and save from now on...

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I disagree, for the reason I stated above about dice. There is a minimum level of English language parsing to play the game, and sadly since we don't all speak Lojban (yet), we have to parse the game in such a way that it doesn't "break".

I mean, unless you want all my models rolling 6's to hit, wound and save from now on...

As always, BCB, I think it's a darned good thing you and I don't play games together.

What BCB is suggesting is that once you resolve the move phase (picking units and resolving their move one at a time), the movement phase "ends".
At that point, you may resolve actions that "occur at the end of the movement phase", but once you resolved ONE action, you are no longer "at the end of the move phase" and therefore NO other action can be done.

As others stated above, this interpretation would mean ONLY ONE UNIT CAN ARRIVE FROM RESERVE PER TURN and then you're done and have to IMMEDIATLY move onto the Psychic Phase.
That is clearly not how it works, since we know multiple units may arrive from Reserves in any given turn, at the end of the move phase.

That leads to the conclusion, that "end of the move phase" is NOT a one-time-only-specific-nanosecond-of-time, but rather a brief period of time in which several things may occur.
This period of time is somewhere between the resolution of the last unit you intend to move and prior to the Psychic Phase beginning.
So long as you are STILL in this time frame, you should be able to resolve multiple "end of the move phase" actions, in sequence.

-

 Octopoid wrote:
EDIT: For example, the weekend is made up of multiple points in time, has two days (one for each end), and encompasses a period rather than an instant. I'm just saying, the word "end" doesn't inherently mean a single instant in time.

Oh well if we're just changing words then clearly I am wrong here. /s

That's like saying every time there is slaughter it's actually funny because it has the word laughter in it. Or every drought is rough. Or that my house is made of ray-finned fish belonging to the order Anguilliformes because it's got steel in it.

 Galef wrote:
What BCB is suggesting is that once you resolve the move phase (picking units and resolving their move one at a time), the movement phase "ends".
At that point, you may resolve actions that "occur at the end of the movement phase", but once you resolved ONE action, you are no longer "at the end of the move phase" and therefore NO other action can be done.

As others stated above, this interpretation would mean ONLY ONE UNIT CAN ARRIVE FROM RESERVE PER TURN and then you're done and have to IMMEDIATLY move onto the Psychic Phase.
That is clearly not how it works, since we know multiple units may arrive from Reserves in any given turn, at the end of the move phase.

That leads to the conclusion, that "end of the move phase" is NOT a one-time-only-specific-nanosecond-of-time, but rather a brief period of time in which several things may occur.
This period of time is somewhere between the resolution of the last unit you intend to move and prior to the Psychic Phase beginning.
So long as you are STILL in this time frame, you should be able to resolve multiple "end of the move phase" actions, in sequence.

-

Indeed, it’s a straight-up wrong interpretation and it’s a shame we only seem to be discussing that (oh look we’re here again...). Things only make sense if it’s a period of time/mini phase, for actions after all ‘regular Movement Phase’ actions are done.

 Galef wrote:
What BCB is suggesting is that once you resolve the move phase (picking units and resolving their move one at a time), the movement phase "ends".
At that point, you may resolve actions that "occur at the end of the movement phase", but once you resolved ONE action, you are no longer "at the end of the move phase" and therefore NO other action can be done.

As others stated above, this interpretation would mean ONLY ONE UNIT CAN ARRIVE FROM RESERVE PER TURN and then you're done and have to IMMEDIATLY move onto the Psychic Phase.
That is clearly not how it works, since we know multiple units may arrive from Reserves in any given turn, at the end of the move phase.

That leads to the conclusion, that "end of the move phase" is NOT a one-time-only-specific-nanosecond-of-time, but rather a brief period of time in which several things may occur.
This period of time is somewhere between the resolution of the last unit you intend to move and prior to the Psychic Phase beginning.
So long as you are STILL in this time frame, you should be able to resolve multiple "end of the move phase" actions, in sequence.

-

There is an incorrect supposition in there that is directly resolved by the rules. There really is only one "End of Phase". You can only do one thing at the point, except the Sequencing rules in the Core Rules tells you how to proceed when you want to do multiple things at have to occur a the same time. This allows you to do multiple things at the End of Phase in the order of your choosing.

However, it is impossible for the timing for Beacon Angelis on a character not on the board to conflict with the timing of that character arriving on the battlefield. You can't choose to use the Beacon Angelis when he hasn't been deployed. Therefore, you are trying to perform an End of Phase action after another End of Phase action, not just resolving them in the order of your choosing when either would be legal.

 alextroy wrote:
However, it is impossible for the timing for Beacon Angelis on a character not on the board to conflict with the timing of that character arriving on the battlefield. You can't choose to use the Beacon Angelis when he hasn't been deployed. Therefore, you are trying to perform an End of Phase action after another End of Phase action, not just resolving them in the order of your choosing when either would be legal.

I may be a little thick, but I don't see a huge difference between "I'm going to bring in more than one Deep Striking unit" and "I'm going to bring in one unit, use a Beacon Angelis, and then bring in another unit, all at the end of my Movement phase."

Simple. If you only did one End of Phase action, it could not be use Beacon Angelis because you are not deployed. Therefore, you can't try to simultaneously deploy that unit and use its Beacon Angelis. If you can't try and use them simultaneously, you can't use Sequencing to allow you to use both.

 alextroy wrote:
Simple. If you only did one End of Phase action, it could not be use Beacon Angelis because you are not deployed. Therefore, you can't try to simultaneously deploy that unit and use its Beacon Angelis. If you can't try and use them simultaneously, you can't use Sequencing to allow you to use both.

I'm just not seeing why "one end of phase action" is the assumed standard. Like I said above, I think there's room to argue that the end of phase is a period of time wherein multiple actions can be performed, just as easily as it can be argued that it's a single instant in time where only one action can be performed.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Except your alternative is provably incorrect because you cannot possibly have two "End of the Movement Phases", because by definition any previous "Ends" cannot be "Ends".

Not at all. You're saying it's a point rather than a sub phase. But the rules never state this either way. It could easily be a period of time within which only "end of" phase abilities can be used. Many games use this model, it's nowhere near as far fetched as you're making out.

There could be a sub phase for End of Phase, but that's not what the W40K rules state. Otherwise there would be no need for the Sequencing rules to state (Emphasis added):

Warhammer 40,000 Core Rules wrote:Sequencing
While playing Warhammer 40,000, you’ll occasionally find that two or more rules are to be resolved at the same time – normally ‘at the start of the Movement phase’ or ‘before the battle begins’. When this happens during the game, the player whose turn it is chooses the order. If these things occur before or after the game, or at the start or end of a battle round, the players roll off and the winner decides in what order the rules are resolved.