Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

With the all new Primaris Marines, the porting of characters to Primaris and the new, upcoming range - now is another exciting times to buy Space Marines. The problem however is that many leading people in the industry fully expect the current line of Space Marines to slowly and surely be squatted.

As such, should anyone looking to start an army but the original line or just avoid them until GWs intentions are clear?

I mention this from my own viewpoint. I view this game not only as a hobby, but as an investment, especially considering the cost. I still have armies from 20 years ago that are completely useable and I still do (I have a 1988 Bloodthirster I use as a Daemon prince) - but the idea that the Space Marines you buy today, spend more than money but time building and painting, only to then find they may be unusable in the future is something I feel GW needs to address.

I would personally wait a couple years to see how things shake out

I kinda feel that it depends on your local meta and how competitive you are. You can still use old marine models from way back to the earlier editions like 3rd and earlier right now for the most part, I've seen several battle reports on this site showing them. The Primaris are likely the future in the long-term, but I think there's still a fair bit of mileage in the older marine models, simply because of how big of a catalogue they have. I'm sure that if you wanted to use the older marine models as primaris (within reason) as long as you tell your opponents ahead of time I don't think they'll begrudge you it since the size difference isn't so huge that it'll be gamebreaking, like the difference between a grot and an Ork Meganob.

There are investments with better returns. GW wants to sell you new toys, not have everyone using 20yr old toys. They can and will invalidate things at will.

8.5 edition will soft-ban them by making their rules unsuitable compared to Pirmaris, who at that point will have fully replaced every oldmarine role.

9th edition will Squat them by making them "Index Only", in addition to making Index Only (as in the original indexes, not the supplemental ones like Assassins or Renegade Knights) entries Narrative Play only.

I'll refrain from saying "I told you so." when it happens.

If they re-release the SM codex, and with the recent-ish release of DW, I doubt you will see their flagship models going anywhere. They are still the best selling models in the FLG I go to, even over IG and GSC.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

I'll refrain from saying "I told you so." when it happens.

I doubt that.

So long as you're ok with using them to proxy Primaris in the future.

You could alternatively use them in 30k, but you'd need to find a group willing to let you use stuff that's not 30k specific Forgeworld models.

Why not just buy the Primaris instead? They look much better and are guaranteed to have a full rule support for years to come.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
8.5 edition will soft-ban them by making their rules unsuitable compared to Pirmaris, who at that point will have fully replaced every oldmarine role.

9th edition will Squat them by making them "Index Only", in addition to making Index Only (as in the original indexes, not the supplemental ones like Assassins or Renegade Knights) entries Narrative Play only.

I'll refrain from saying "I told you so." when it happens.

I do agree, but you gotta stop wording every third post you make in such a condescending way, lordy geeze.

According to GW, Primaris are reinforcements, not replacements. 8th edition has a full set of codex rules for standard SM, and all the standard SM units are still for sale. Based on what's happened in the last year, expect only new Primaris releases going forward though. Beyond 8th edition nobody knows.

Most marine rules may as well not exists they are so bad. I mean what would the impact on the meta game be, if GW suddenly squated SW or GK. Most people wouldn't even notice.

And yeah I do think that not buying anything marine is a good thing. Wish also I knew that before I bought my army.

 Brother Castor wrote:
According to GW, Primaris are reinforcements, not replacements.

Come on, man.

Old marines will be legal to use for as long as the molds are giving functional products as they just print money for GW.

So if you know how old they are, how many cycles they have gone through and how long they usually last it should be possible to estimate when to ditch old marines.

 Crimson wrote:
Why not just buy the Primaris instead? They look much better and are guaranteed to have a full rule support for years to come.

Completely agree

Karol wrote:
And yeah I do think that not buying anything marine is a good thing. Wish also I knew that before I bought my army.

This is why i always tell people not to start marines. And i get shouted down by the pitchforks and torches casuals on here who think that because they can compete against trash tier nonsense players that the army is functional.

 Crimson wrote:
Why not just buy the Primaris instead? They look much better and are guaranteed to have a full rule support for years to come.

Because they have garbage fluff IMO, significantly less options and model choices and finally far less cross kit comparability. The individual models look good but they represent everything I don't like about the direction 40k is taking post chapter house.

Buy all the primaris. All of them.

Pfft.

Primaris are why I got back into GW. I genuinely wish these were the Space Marines I had access to fifteen years ago. Buy all of the primaris,

But hey, oldstartes/squatmarines are the space marines legacy. Thry are legal. They will stay legal. And even, heaven forbid, In another fifteen or twenty years, when you are in your fifties, and really, have better things to do with your time than argue on dakka, gw decide to recind the rules for oldstartes, what's stopping your from saying 'they're an iconic legacy army from third edition and I'm gonna proxy them as currentmarines.

Worst case scenario, and some twerp from the future says 'lolno'. Call them out as a tfg. And realise hey, you still had fifteen or twentt years of value out of your toy soldiers anyway. And you can still use them with anyone who says 'yes, and man, are oldstartes cool!'.

JFC, there's bigger problems in this hobby. Maybe spend some energy there instead of panicing about silly things that any decent chap will be cool with anyway.

 combatcotton wrote:
Old marines will be legal to use for as long as the molds are giving functional products as they just print money for GW.

This is probably the best take. How old is the newest Tactical box? 2013/6th edition? http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?297915-Games-Workshop-40K-Release-Timeline-(Mk-II)

If you wanna donate your unbuilt Marine stuff to me, sure I won't buy anything.

Until then, quit the butthurt.

 Marmatag wrote:

This is why i always tell people not to start marines. And i get shouted down by the pitchforks and torches casuals on here who think that because they can compete against trash tier nonsense players that the army is functional.

But if their local meta is trash tier nonsense meta (as in most places it is) then it is absolutely fine. This game is best when it is played on trash tier nonsense level anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

HoundsofDemos wrote:

Because they have garbage fluff IMO, significantly less options and model choices and finally far less cross kit comparability. The individual models look good but they represent everything I don't like about the direction 40k is taking post chapter house.

The fluff went hell in the handbasket when Guilliman returned, so it needs to be ignored anyway. And more options for the Primaris will come; the next wave will be in a week.

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Why not just buy the Primaris instead? They look much better and are guaranteed to have a full rule support for years to come.

Because they have garbage fluff IMO, significantly less options and model choices and finally far less cross kit comparability. The individual models look good but they represent everything I don't like about the direction 40k is taking post chapter house.

Yeah, this is how I feel too. I have some Primaris from big sets, including Dark Imperium which I bought right at the launch of 8th - and I still haven't even clipped a single sprue. They look good and I'll probably build and paint them someday, but I've loved the lore of the Astartes for coming on 20 years - the organisation of a chapter, the battlefield roles. Tacticals, Assault, Devastator, Terminator. The various patterns of armour and equipment, the design of it, the way the lore has built - all part of the rich 40k history. Even though on the surface the Primaris have better proportions and show off the modern miniatures technology, the old marines have the weight of 40k history on their side. Old marine lore is a classic cornerstone of the 40k setting. Primaris lore is a dumpster fire.

Sumilidon wrote:
With the all new Primaris Marines, the porting of characters to Primaris and the new, upcoming range - now is another exciting times to buy Space Marines. The problem however is that many leading people in the industry fully expect the current line of Space Marines to slowly and surely be squatted.

As such, should anyone looking to start an army but the original line or just avoid them until GWs intentions are clear?

It's at risk of turning into a self-fulfilling prophecy:

Gamers: Old marines might be on the way to being squatted. I want an army with a future, so I won't buy old marines.
GW: Old marine sales are down. I guess people really do prefer Primaris. Pull a few of the less popular kits from stores and make them online only.
Gamers: Hey guys, look, geedubs have pulled some old marines to webstore exclusive, the squatting has started! Only buy Primaris from now on, buying old marines is a waste.
GW: Old marine sales are still falling. Pull a few more kits to webstore exclusive

Rinse and repeat.

It's clear that new releases are going to be Primaris from now on, but as long as the old marines keep selling, GW will keep selling them. Why not? They've got a vast range of mostly plastic kits, many of which are fairly new and will almost certainly have all paid their moulds off due to marines sales volumes. The only eventual incentive to pull them would be if sales dropped off to a point where maintaining all the different SKUs and production runs was becoming too much of a headache to bother.

Honestly, if gw makes models they have realesed and at some point they become irrelevent is a sad and depressing thing.

Guess you can just stick to older editions, but they should really try and implement older models in some form where they are still usable.

 Crimson wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

HoundsofDemos wrote:

Because they have garbage fluff IMO, significantly less options and model choices and finally far less cross kit comparability. The individual models look good but they represent everything I don't like about the direction 40k is taking post chapter house.

The fluff went hell in the handbasket when Guilliman returned, so it needs to be ignored anyway. And more options for the Primaris will come; the next wave will be in a week.

The above to don't work for me though. For me anything I buy, build or collect starts with the fluff. If I don't like a units backstory then its a non starter. Additionally Primaris units being released look like more of the same. Models that basically take one weapon choice as a unit and are fairly self contained bitz wise from any other kit. Again, hard pass, that's so dull. Regular marines have so many options, bitz, marks of armor that its so easy to make a visually unique army over time.

Primaris marines all look the same and now due to a lack of bitz it's harder to avoid clam shell characters that even more static and boring.

Wake me up when sisters gets released.

Crimson wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

This is why i always tell people not to start marines. And i get shouted down by the pitchforks and torches casuals on here who think that because they can compete against trash tier nonsense players that the army is functional.

But if their local meta is trash tier nonsense meta (as in most places it is) then it is absolutely fine. This game is best when it is played on trash tier nonsense level anyway.

Agreed. Not every game is bleeding edge competitive, and to some people, the game is better that way.

HoundsofDemos wrote:The above to don't work for me though. For me anything I buy, build or collect starts with the fluff. If I don't like a units backstory then its a non starter. Additionally Primaris units being released look like more of the same. Models that basically take one weapon choice as a unit and are fairly self contained bitz wise from any other kit. Again, hard pass, that's so dull. Regular marines have so many options, bitz, marks of armor that its so easy to make a visually unique army over time.

Really? Even though the helmets and shoulderpads are easily cross compatible, and the other bits don't take much to convert over, the Primaris marines are unable to make distinct?
I've got both a full Ultramarines 2nd Company of old marines, and a homebrew Primaris 3rd Company. Out of the two, the 3rd Company list looks more diverse to me, just from the posing, ability to reuse assets from older kits, and lack of ornamentation of the Primaris allowing for any ornaments added to shine through more.

Again, you're well entitled to your opinion about Primaris, that's all fair and good, but I think they look so much better, and are just as good on the conversion/visual distinctiveness fronts.

Primaris marines all look the same and now due to a lack of bitz it's harder to avoid clam shell characters that even more static and boring.

Clamshells are annoying, but that was hardly a Primaris only problem. The good old plastic Space Marine Commander set was being largely ignored by GW in favour of the static combi-grav Captain sculpt long before Primaris.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
8.5 edition will soft-ban them by making their rules unsuitable compared to Pirmaris, who at that point will have fully replaced every oldmarine role.

9th edition will Squat them by making them "Index Only", in addition to making Index Only (as in the original indexes, not the supplemental ones like Assassins or Renegade Knights) entries Narrative Play only.

I'll refrain from saying "I told you so." when it happens.

I'll take that bet.

I'll say this; if I'd read some of GW's press statements before I started buying models again this edition I'd own nothing but Primaris and a couple of squads of Centurion Devastators. (Not that Centurions are good, I just love those models.)

I'm still buying them and feel pretty good about it.

There are also a TON of marine kits. They could lose 75% of the line and you'd still be able to build a perfectly fine army with the core kits (Tactical, Devastator, Assault), most other units are just some iteration of those.

 Insectum7 wrote:
I'm still buying them and feel pretty good about it.

There are also a TON of marine kits. They could lose 75% of the line and you'd still be able to build a perfectly fine army with the core kits (Tactical, Devastator, Assault), most other units are just some iteration of those.

Heck I kinda like the diea of dropping specific vetern units and simply allowing you to upgrade a unit to vetern status with a stratigium like what can be done with indomatus crusaders