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So while the points have not yet leaked, the datasheet for Suppressors has. We can use Power Level to estimate that 5 Suppressors is roughly equal to 3 Inceptors.

Inceptors have better T, which can certainly deter many d2 weapons from wounding them on 2+
3 Inceptors will have either 18 assault HB shots, or 6d3 assault Plasma shots (12 average)

By contrast, the Suppressor will have more bodies, or if going with just 3 models, less cost invested.
5 Suppressors will have 10 AP-2 Autocannon shots, which I would put as roughly between both the Inceptors options (in a bad way because it isn't very focused)

So even though you get "more" with the Suppressors, I'm still having trouble seeing their point. Inceptors having more focused weapon options (either loads of anti-infantry shots, or ya know, PLASMA) gives them an edge.

Speculation: Suppressors seem very likely to get another weapon option when their full kit drops. I am thinking something similar to Onslaught cannons or Lastalons.
If it's Lastalons, or similar, Suppressors could fill an much needed anti-tank niche, so hopefully that's what they get.

Thoughts?

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Suppressors also have range and bolster other units by making them able to charge without taking Overwatch.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Suppressors also have range and bolster other units by making them able to charge without taking Overwatch.

True, but with M10, 18" range guns and the ability to enter as reinforcements, I don't really thing the range is that much of an edge.

As an opponent, I'd be far more concerned with Plasma Inceptors than Suppressors. Time will tell, however

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Not having to kamikaze in is a major plus for the Suppressors.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Not having to kamikaze in is a major plus for the Suppressors.

Granted, plus having to supercharge potentially killing them
Maybe the extra AP over the standard Autocannon will make a difference and being able to get shots off turn 1 instead of being reinforcements

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Suppressors also have the advantage of smoke launchers. Unlike the Infiltrators, only the sergeant needs to forgo the shooting phase.

One thing I dislike is the JP. with 48" range, heavy weapons plus being relatively squishy, extensive movement and fleeing is hardly necessary, but it adds to their point costs.

The other issue I see is that in armies like maybe RG and definitely SW, Hellblasters do the same job for probably less with better S and AP.

I think Suppressors are a bit of a confused unit, not sure what it wants to do. Now, if they release as a box set with weapon option like LC or MM, then things may look differently.

I actually think suppressors have a lot going for them compared to the current hellblasters and inceptors.

Range is a really big deal. It's not just that you can hit things a lot more easily - you're also much safer while doing so. There's an obvious combo for ravenguard with these guys. You can stay far away in cover and shoot what you want.

The weapon's profile is kind of ideal. Ok maybe it'd have been better to have S8, but that would have raised their cost. But othwerwise these are great guns that you can happily fire at almost any target.

People talk about the jump packs like they're a bad thing, but they really are not. The fly keyword on a shooting unit is absolute solid gold. Speed isn't needed but it's obviously a nice option to have. The option to deep strike is extremely useful if you're going second against an enemy shooting unit. You shouldn't use it in every game, and you don't have to, but from time to time it's going to be what you want.

They do obviously look kind of crazy. I particularly liked the description tha they fire foot-long rounds, which obviously wouldn't fit through their ammo feeds. I reckon I could make them look ok.

They also don't pay for a lot of AP which constantly gets ignored by everyone and their mother.

I'll take 48" guns over 18" guns any day. Inceptors are trash, because all kinds of nasty things happen at 18".

I think this is going to depend on points cost. If you really can get 5 Suppressors for less than 3 Plasma Inceptors, I think they'll be useful. But if they are closer in cost, I'd rather have 6-18 Plasma shots dropping in to remove several small threats at once.

It shouldn't be too hard to use your 1st turn to eliminate/cripple threats to the Inceptors so that when they drop in, they aren't in too much danger.
Starting Suppressors on the board (which you will want to do) puts them in danger of being Alpha struck, even if they are deep in your deployment.

My son currently has 2 Plasma Inceptor models (we proxy a the 3rd with an Aggressor), and we were planning on getting 3 more. But we may instead get 3 Suppressors and magnetize the gun barrel to swap out for double Plasma. That way he can use either Inceptors or Suppressors depending on what's the better unit.

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 Galef wrote:

It shouldn't be too hard to use your 1st turn to eliminate/cripple threats to the Inceptors so that when they drop in, they aren't in too much danger.
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If your Plinceptors arent getting massacred the moment after they drop then your opponent is either tabled or extremely foolish. Drop troops dual wielding plasma cannons attract every gun on the table once they show their face.

Smoke launchers, the abbility of denie overwatch, the combo with the new librarían discipline and the autocannons. Depending of the points they will be a pretty good option.

Ussualy I use one 3 man Inceptors unit just for have something to depp strike, but I think I will change to Suppresors. But as I sayd it depends on their cost.

Sterling191 wrote:
If your Plinceptors arent getting massacred the moment after they drop then your opponent is either tabled or extremely foolish. Drop troops dual wielding plasma cannons attract every gun on the table once they show their face.

Alternatively, my experience with them is in 1000pts or less games in which they drop in, kill more then they are worth and cripple the enemy army. They often do get immediately killed after that, but the damage they do is often enough to win games

I can certainly see bigger games having more threats to deal with, but that's why I am starting to think more and more that magnets are the answer.
3 Suppressors + 2 Inceptors with the right magnetized weapons (trade the autocannon barrel for "twin" plasma) and my son should be able to use either unit depending on need/game size

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Alex_85 wrote:
Smoke launchers, the abbility of denie overwatch, the combo with the new librarían discipline and the autocannons. Depending of the points they will be a pretty good option.

Ussualy I use one 3 man Inceptors unit just for have something to depp strike, but I think I will change to Suppresors. But as I sayd it depends on their cost.

They don't combo with the new discipline as they are not Phobos.

 Galef wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
If your Plinceptors arent getting massacred the moment after they drop then your opponent is either tabled or extremely foolish. Drop troops dual wielding plasma cannons attract every gun on the table once they show their face.

Alternatively, my experience with them is in 1000pts or less games in which they drop in, kill more then they are worth and cripple the enemy army. They often do get immediately killed after that, but the damage they do is often enough to win games

I can certainly see bigger games having more threats to deal with, but that's why I am starting to think more and more that magnets are the answer.
3 Suppressors + 2 Inceptors with the right magnetized weapons (trade the autocannon barrel for "twin" plasma) and my son should be able to use either unit depending on need/game size

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Who are you playing where an inceptor drop means anything? Other marines?

Martel732 wrote:

 Galef wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
If your Plinceptors arent getting massacred the moment after they drop then your opponent is either tabled or extremely foolish. Drop troops dual wielding plasma cannons attract every gun on the table once they show their face.

Alternatively, my experience with them is in 1000pts or less games in which they drop in, kill more then they are worth and cripple the enemy army. They often do get immediately killed after that, but the damage they do is often enough to win games

I can certainly see bigger games having more threats to deal with, but that's why I am starting to think more and more that magnets are the answer.
3 Suppressors + 2 Inceptors with the right magnetized weapons (trade the autocannon barrel for "twin" plasma) and my son should be able to use either unit depending on need/game size

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Who are you playing where an inceptor drop means anything? Other marines?

Technically yes oher Marines, and I am playing my sons, who are still learning. But also Necrons, Chaos Marines and .... wait for it .... my Eldar.
At 1000pts, 3 Plasma Inceptors do plenty of damage and demand immediately attention, which again at 1000pts after 2 turns, the enemy army tends to not have a lot to focus on them.
Yes, they die, but it tends to take what's left of the opponent's army to do it, which gives quite a bit of breathing room for the rest of the army.
And even though my boys are still learning, the Inceptors are bar-none the biggest threat they have. They get to drop in, after chaff has been addressed, and kill/cripple several units with impunity.

I've lost many a Shining Spear unit to them. But if Suppressors are considerably cheaper (close to half the cost), the Inceptors are likely to get replaced

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At 30-35pts I could see them having a place if taken en masse. one thing to remember is that they don't HAVE to move. You could just think of them as intercessors carrying souped-up autocannons with a nice movement option to fall back on if they need it.

I think they probably combo best with guilliman tbh. If they're allowed to be taken in units of > 3 models then they have the potential for some heavy damage dealing while remaining safe.

 DoomMouse wrote:
At 30-35pts I could see them having a place if taken en masse. one thing to remember is that they don't HAVE to move. You could just think of them as intercessors carrying souped-up autocannons with a nice movement option to fall back on if they need it.

Best case scenario we're looking at 40 points for the Suppressor (25 for the body, 15 for the weapon). I expect them to clock in mid 40s however, given the extra point of AP and special function on the gun, plus smoke 'nades.

The power level of these guys is pretty odd actually. If they cost around 35 points then they'll be a seriously good unit. I'd look at fielding 6-12 of them in that case. Maybe even more.

Their guns is really great. You couldn't have designed anything better for getting rid of things like custodes bikes. -2 ap is the sweet spot where you tend to mess up your target's armour save but not yet have wasted ap on an invulnerable.

PL5 for 3 Models? I would be very surprised if Suppressors are more than 35ppm.
At 40+ppm, they'd be PL6 instead

But as it stands, they are a 3-man unit only without the ability to add more. So I suspect the leaked datasheet for them isn't the "final" one.
After all, Inceptors were PL8 in the Index and only had Assault Bolters as an option. The Codex bumped them to PL10 and gave them Plasma Exterminators and could add more than 3 to the unit.

So maybe the leaked datasheet for the Suppressors is just the one from the campaign book with the "ready and play" loadouts, but the Vanguard Marine min-dex might have a more fleshed out datasheet with another gun option and ability to add up to 3 more models?

It's weird though, with the Inceptors, there was the Codex to update their datasheet alongside the multii-pose kit.
unless GW will be releasing a Space marine Codex in the next few months, along with the individual kits for the Vanguard Marines, I don't see this happening.
So it may very well be that Suppressor will only ever have 3 models and no alternate gun option

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 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Alex_85 wrote:
Smoke launchers, the abbility of denie overwatch, the combo with the new librarían discipline and the autocannons. Depending of the points they will be a pretty good option.

Ussualy I use one 3 man Inceptors unit just for have something to depp strike, but I think I will change to Suppresors. But as I sayd it depends on their cost.

They don't combo with the new discipline as they are not Phobos.

Not Phobos and not Gravis? This is disgusting

Alex_85 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Alex_85 wrote:
Smoke launchers, the abbility of denie overwatch, the combo with the new librarían discipline and the autocannons. Depending of the points they will be a pretty good option.

Ussualy I use one 3 man Inceptors unit just for have something to depp strike, but I think I will change to Suppresors. But as I sayd it depends on their cost.

They don't combo with the new discipline as they are not Phobos.

Not Phobos and not Gravis? This is disgusting

Correct. They are more like airborne Mk X Tacticus(same suits as Intercessors and Hellblasters) Marines. On the bright side, it means they only take up one slot in a Repulsor.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Alex_85 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Alex_85 wrote:
Smoke launchers, the abbility of denie overwatch, the combo with the new librarían discipline and the autocannons. Depending of the points they will be a pretty good option.

Ussualy I use one 3 man Inceptors unit just for have something to depp strike, but I think I will change to Suppresors. But as I sayd it depends on their cost.

They don't combo with the new discipline as they are not Phobos.

Not Phobos and not Gravis? This is disgusting

Correct. They are more like airborne Mk X Tacticus(same suits as Intercessors and Hellblasters) Marines. On the bright side, it means they only take up one slot in a Repulsor.

Why would you want to though? it's not like they lack range or mobility. That's an anecdotal advantage at best.

 Trade_Prince wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Alex_85 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Alex_85 wrote:
Smoke launchers, the abbility of denie overwatch, the combo with the new librarían discipline and the autocannons. Depending of the points they will be a pretty good option.

Ussualy I use one 3 man Inceptors unit just for have something to depp strike, but I think I will change to Suppresors. But as I sayd it depends on their cost.

They don't combo with the new discipline as they are not Phobos.

Not Phobos and not Gravis? This is disgusting

Correct. They are more like airborne Mk X Tacticus(same suits as Intercessors and Hellblasters) Marines. On the bright side, it means they only take up one slot in a Repulsor.

Why would you want to though? it's not like they lack range or mobility. That's an anecdotal advantage at best.

You wouldn't. But you can.

As a wise man once said - why not both?

Inceptors up front, Suppressors supporting from the back; it could make quite a fluffy air-assault force.

Speaking as a Blood Angel player - the ability to deny Overwatch cannot be overstated. That is huge. I don't look at this as a stand-alone unit (l DO do that with Inceptors of either variety), but rather in synergy with my melee units.

Imagine deepstriking a set of these along with my Death Company, and not having my squishy DC lose to overwatch before they can bring the hammer. Hell, at Str7 and AP-2, I can ever reliably split-fire on lower toughness hordes (Looking at you, Tau Greater Good, and Orcs, obvi).


It all comes down to points in the end, but having a mid-cost unit that can both Anti-tank decently AND allow my melee units a free pass to Punch Town is pretty interesting.


---Wargboyz

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Alex_85 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Alex_85 wrote:
Smoke launchers, the abbility of denie overwatch, the combo with the new librarían discipline and the autocannons. Depending of the points they will be a pretty good option.

Ussualy I use one 3 man Inceptors unit just for have something to depp strike, but I think I will change to Suppresors. But as I sayd it depends on their cost.

They don't combo with the new discipline as they are not Phobos.

Not Phobos and not Gravis? This is disgusting

Correct. They are more like airborne Mk X Tacticus(same suits as Intercessors and Hellblasters) Marines. On the bright side, it means they only take up one slot in a Repulsor.

They actually take up no space in a repulsor, as it can't carry jump pack models.

I think a primaris brigade might be viable now at 2k. There ought to now be choices in every slot for around 100points or under. Eliminators in fast attack look like they'll cost around half what a 5 man hellblaster squad does, for example.

Not saying it'd be a good list, but it might not be awful. I'm not sure I'd field any inceptors though. Suppressors seem more flexible and cheaper. Inceptors either give me dakka that I don't really need (my troops bring it) or suicide plasma at vast expense. Neither seems a great option. Cheaper guys with guns that work against everything look way better.

Surprised no one has mentioned this - but having mobile troops with heavy weapons is just so pointless. 6 shots hitting on 4s? I think I'll pass.

OR they end up being yet another backfield aura camping unit (along with the rest of the useful units in a marine list). In which case, why waste points on the jet packs? So frustrating having units with antagonistic abilities, as the guns look amazing and have very solid rules - I literally couldn't believe it when I saw they didn't have a rule to bypass the -1 to hit. Very frustrating.

Very few things can bypass the -1 to hit.

The way I look at it is this: my heavy weapons troops have the fly keyword. They can fall back and shoot. They won't always move but if they want to they can go fast.

In the end it still comes down to their cost. Jump packs aren't worth all that much to heavy weapon troops so they shouldn't have to pay too much for them. If they end up too expensive overall, they'll be bad. So far it doesn't look like they will.

Not sure I agree that stuff ignores the -1... armies like Drukhari, Aeldari and Nids just have assault status on their big guns. IG have special rules on their tanks. Custodes have 2+BS. I think marines are really punished by this effect due to too few shots to get around the -1 IMO. Maybe they would work by bulking up to 9 and then sitting in the backfield, potentially out of LOS turn 1.

I do like using fly to get to super awkward places that protect them from cc though.

I just think that you need to invest a lot of points to make a unit like that threatening.