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Had a fun little thought experiment. If you had the ability to swap one loyalist legion, and one heretic legion, who would you pick for your team?
I think if you look at it from the loyalist perspective. I'd want to take the Luna Wolves, and give the Heretic forces the salamanders.
If I wanted to buff the heretic side I'd say take the Blood Angels, and give the Night Lords to the Loyalists.
What do you think? Which legion swap would most benefit the Imperium? Which would most benefit chaos?
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MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
I'd send space pups over to chaos.
Savage beasts belong there.
I'd bring emperors children over to the imperium.
They were almost loyal until the end and it was only due to other chapters swaying them that they switched.
Besides, loyalists need some style.
Jackal90 wrote: I'd send space pups over to chaos.
Savage beasts belong there.
I'd bring emperors children over to the imperium.
They were almost loyal until the end and it was only due to other chapters swaying them that they switched.
Besides, loyalists need some style.
I agree about the Space Wolves. I mean they're a bunch of mutants best known for disobeying orders and murdering fellow Imperial soldiers, so they're already heretics in everything but name.
Weren't the Emperor's Children basically the first to fall and they fell hard and fast?
Jackal90 wrote: I'd send space pups over to chaos.
Savage beasts belong there.
I'd bring emperors children over to the imperium.
They were almost loyal until the end and it was only due to other chapters swaying them that they switched.
Besides, loyalists need some style.
I agree about the Space Wolves. I mean they're a bunch of mutants best known for disobeying orders and murdering fellow Imperial soldiers, so they're already heretics in everything but name.
Weren't the Emperor's Children basically the first to fall and they fell hard and fast?
Word Bearers fell waaaaaaaaaaaaaay before anyone else
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/07 16:35:59
pm713 wrote: Bring Emperor's Children to loyalists and send Ultramarines to the Traitors. It would be interesting to see a story on it.
Pretty sure that would mean the heretics win for sure. The two largest legions both on the same side? Oof.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
swap the 1k sons and the space wolves. be an intreasting story and could very easily happen if the reaction from the other powers to prosperio had been slightly differant
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Jackal90 wrote: I'd send space pups over to chaos.
Savage beasts belong there.
I'd bring emperors children over to the imperium.
They were almost loyal until the end and it was only due to other chapters swaying them that they switched.
Besides, loyalists need some style.
I agree about the Space Wolves. I mean they're a bunch of mutants best known for disobeying orders and murdering fellow Imperial soldiers, so they're already heretics in everything but name.
Weren't the Emperor's Children basically the first to fall and they fell hard and fast?
Word Bearers fell waaaaaaaaaaaaaay before anyone else
For some reason I thought the Emperor's Children went to Slaanesh super early and independent of the influence of Erebus and the Word Bearers, but I'm probably wrong as I haven't read the Word Bearers or Empereror's Children books yet.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/08 06:00:00
It would be fun to swap the Luna Wolves and the Ultras- I do love tje Ultras, but in terms of Primarch roles, absent the Emperor Horus is the most obvious next in line for leadership even above Sang.
And Roboute certainly had the story line to be an ambitios slinter empore builder to give him a reason to rebel.
Id also swap spacewolves and Emperors children for tje reasons said above, though I'd still make the thousand sons a cadualty of yhe wolves and have that be what also pushes them into chaos.
Slaaneshes legion would be the Ultras, and word bearers would he tje poster children for chaos undevided, as they should be
However, the current lore all but confirms that the reason the Emperor treated half of his sons like crap was to intentionally make them rebel to cull the Astartes population, so any legion swap thought experiment would also need to account for a difference in Treatment.
Personally I think Magnus Did Nothing Wrong and had the Emperor just been truthful and helped train Mangus things would have worked out just fine.
I also think it would be cool if the Dark Angels were loyal.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/08 14:25:49
However, the current lore all but confirms that the reason the Emperor treated half of his sons like crap was to intentionally make them rebel to cull the Astartes population, so any legion swap thought experiment would also need to account for a difference in Treatment.
Personally I think Magnus Did Nothing Wrong and had the Emperor just been truthful and helped train Mangus things would have worked out just fine.
I also think it would be cool if the Dark Angels were loyal.
But that idea is just so mind bogglingly stupid. Until it literally says "the theory that the Emperor intentionally set up for a astartes rebelling is correct" in a black library book I'm not taking that as canon.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
I'm more getting at a simple red-rover exercise. If you were a loyalist, pick a legion to stay loyal, and send a legion to chaos.
IF you are team heresy, pick a legion to turn traitor, and send a legion to the loyalists sorta deal.
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MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
I think loyalist Word Bearers would be a laugh in 40k. You can still have a Heresy as long as Kor Phaeron or/and Erebus pull a Luthor and kick things off.
Something distracts Big E before he can stomp Monarchia flat and you have chapters that makes the Black Templars look like they are phoning it in.
or maybe they took Monarchia to heart and are the last bastion of the Imperial Truth in a Imperium that looks all too much like their folly and near downfall.
On the Loyalist to Traitor side...
As much as I'd like to go Space Wolves because their whole "Rune Priests aren't Psychers" hypocrisy. ( with bonus points if they fall to Khorne but still use Rune Priests because "they are totally not psychers")
My actual choice is Raven Guard because I like the pathos of it being not their fault - I'd make them a fully Possessed legion where the Raptor program was implemented throughout the legion before the sabotage was discovered.
Z-Ray wrote: I think loyalist Word Bearers would be a laugh in 40k. You can still have a Heresy as long as Kor Phaeron or/and Erebus pull a Luthor and kick things off.
Something distracts Big E before he can stomp Monarchia flat and you have chapters that makes the Black Templars look like they are phoning it in.
or maybe they took Monarchia to heart and are the last bastion of the Imperial Truth in a Imperium that looks all too much like their folly and near downfall.
On the Loyalist to Traitor side...
As much as I'd like to go Space Wolves because their whole "Rune Priests aren't Psychers" hypocrisy. ( with bonus points if they fall to Khorne but still use Rune Priests because "they are totally not psychers")
My actual choice is Raven Guard because I like the pathos of it being not their fault - I'd make them a fully Possessed legion where the Raptor program was implemented throughout the legion before the sabotage was discovered.
Ok, that would actually be super neat. I really like that idea.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
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MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
If I was trying to maximise the strengths of the Loyalists, I'd send the Khan over to the traitors, and steal either the Thousand Sons or the Luna Wolves. I don't really know what major impact the White Scars had, especially since they were on the fence for a good portion, and I don't think they've really done any major damage to the traitors so far.
In return, having an all-psychic Legion that would stick around after the Heresy, or simply having Horus and the Legion with the most amount of victories, are far better tradeoffs.
If I was a traitor, I'd get rid of the Night Lords, and steal the Ultramarines. The Night Lords weren't as successful in pitched battles, didn't contribute a massive amount to the traitor war effort, and were notoriously unreliable. Better to hand them over to the Loyalists.
The Ultramarines were the single largest Legion by the time of the Heresy, with a massive amount of infrastructure and logistical support. The traitor forces could well have used Ultramar as a base of operations, and Horus would have benefitted greatly from a Legion that was actually well disciplined and had a Primarch who was fairly no-nonsense. In one of the BL short stories, Horus muses on the fact that nearly all the Legions who ally with him are the broken, damaged ones.
I agree with the Night Lords/Ultramarines swap if I wanted to boost the traitors.
For the loyalists, it might be a good idea to keep the Iron Warriors. No more siege specialists for the traitors and more to bolster the Imperium's defenses? It would probably make a difference.
I'd be tempted to send the Dark Angels to the traitors, although I wonder if they'd still have their "fallen" in this case? If they're not wasting their time fighting among themselves, I guess I'd send the Salamanders instead, mostly because they're supposed to be a relatively small legion.
Have the Imperial Fists turn Traitor - but only after they're at Terra.
In return, keep the Thousand Sons loyal. In fact, tie the two together - have Rogal Dorn be the one to convince the Emperor to send the Wolves, Custodes and Death's Heads to Prospero, but have the Fists' treachery discovered just in time - have the truth revealed after the Wolves have bombarded Prospero, but just as Russ' ship is touching down.
I think dumping the Emperor's Children from the Traitors to the Loyalists, in favour of the Blood Angels would have been better. Mainly because the Emperor's Children probably cost Horus victory during the Siege. Not sure how it would have worked, story-wise, but their respective fall and temptation were some of the worst written drek in the Horus Heresy.
Would not have to suffer the EMO "Hunt the Fallen" and F the Imperium crap for the next 10,000 years. Might get stuff done.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
However, the current lore all but confirms that the reason the Emperor treated half of his sons like crap was to intentionally make them rebel to cull the Astartes population, so any legion swap thought experiment would also need to account for a difference in Treatment.
Personally I think Magnus Did Nothing Wrong and had the Emperor just been truthful and helped train Mangus things would have worked out just fine.
I also think it would be cool if the Dark Angels were loyal.
But that idea is just so mind bogglingly stupid. Until it literally says "the theory that the Emperor intentionally set up for a astartes rebelling is correct" in a black library book I'm not taking that as canon.
what about a direct quote from Malcadore the Sigilate in an audio drama?
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
I'd love it if the World Eaters or the Alpha Legion had gone loyalist instead of renegade. I like the fluff implications if Angron had been able to overcome the Nails, and I think the Alpha Legion's tactic of infiltrating other marine forces would be more useful (and feasible) when the target is renegade legions.
On the other hand, I'd happily hand off the Iron Hands to Chaos. Them following the Dark Mechanicum would just make sense, at least to me. My runner up would be the Dark Angels. That one might as well be Chaos anyway. You'd still have the same shtick, just a different faction label on the box.
However, the current lore all but confirms that the reason the Emperor treated half of his sons like crap was to intentionally make them rebel to cull the Astartes population, so any legion swap thought experiment would also need to account for a difference in Treatment.
Personally I think Magnus Did Nothing Wrong and had the Emperor just been truthful and helped train Mangus things would have worked out just fine.
I also think it would be cool if the Dark Angels were loyal.
But that idea is just so mind bogglingly stupid. Until it literally says "the theory that the Emperor intentionally set up for a astartes rebelling is correct" in a black library book I'm not taking that as canon.
what about a direct quote from Malcadore the Sigilate in an audio drama?
Depends on the quote. What is it?
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
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