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This has been sitting at the back of my mind for quite a while. Isn't Vulkan's ability to come back to life? Why give Guilliman a similar one? It feels like a fluff line was crossed.

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
This has been sitting at the back of my mind for quite a while. Isn't Vulkan's ability to come back to life? Why give Guilliman a similar one? It feels like a fluff line was crossed.

Guilliman's armor didn't bring him back to life. It kept him from dying. Essentially, he was mortally wounded, with no chance of survival and then was frozen in a stasis field before he actually died. Fast forward 10,000 years and Cawl has come up with a life support system that is advanced enough that the it can be "installed" after the stasis field comes down, but before Guilliman properly dies.

Vulkan was able to return to life after being burned to ash. Guilliman's armor won't do that.

In Dark Imperium Guilliman seems to survive without his armour.

 Nurglitch wrote:
In Dark Imperium Guilliman seems to survive without his armour.

Probably had time to heal

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
In Dark Imperium Guilliman seems to survive without his armour.

Probably had time to heal

The whole point was he couldn't heal. He was meant to be in stasis or die. So no armour, no living.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
In Dark Imperium Guilliman seems to survive without his armour.

Probably had time to heal

Makes sense. The whole point of the armor was to keep him alive after the stasis field came down. It stands to reason that it would keep him alive while he had time to heal. He might have some new augmetics, but I doubt he'd need the armor permanently.

pm713 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
In Dark Imperium Guilliman seems to survive without his armour.

Probably had time to heal

The whole point was he couldn't heal. He was meant to be in stasis or die. So no armour, no living.

Or the new armour plus Primarch powers means he is fine now....well depressed and bitter but not dying....

 Mr Morden wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
In Dark Imperium Guilliman seems to survive without his armour.

Probably had time to heal

The whole point was he couldn't heal. He was meant to be in stasis or die. So no armour, no living.

Or the new armour plus Primarch powers means he is fine now....well depressed and bitter but not dying....

Which colossally dumps on the lore but that seems to be the standard now.

How soon everyone forgets Yvraine’s intervention.

Sterling191 wrote:
How soon everyone forgets Yvraine’s intervention.

right, didnt he have to die since he was cut with anathame? Ynnead couldn't do anything until he had actually died(afair).

I'm not sure whether or not it's "stealing" Vulkan's ability, but if in the narrative Guilliman also has a somewhat plausible reason to recover from what should be fatal injuries (beyond standard Primarch resilience) that might actually be a good thing for Vulkan.

I like Vulkan's ability, but my concern is that if he comes back to early and is known to come back after being killed, lazy writers might use him as a tool to prove how tough someone is without having to make a major change to the overall story.

Look at how tough Angron is, he killed Vulkan!
*Vulkan comes back*
Look at how tough Fulgrim is, he killed Vulkan!
*Vulkan comes back*
Look at how tough The Silent King is, he killed Vulkan!
(Repeat over and over for every new BBEG)

If Guilliman can get dismembered and come back then maybe he could at least share punching-bag status with Vulkan.

Of course this is a speculative fear and it is totally possible they wouldn't engage in that lazy way of demonstrating toughness.

Sterling191 wrote:
How soon everyone forgets Yvraine’s intervention.

This. Gathering Storm makes it clear that Cawl's armor and gadgets would not have been enough to bring him back. Bobby G got a one time deal to get him back on his feet via space elf death magic and some weird tech. Vulkan could recover from some insane level of punishment over and over with no outside intervention.

It's not entirely clear outside of very specific circumstance if Vulkan could actually die.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I'm not sure whether or not it's "stealing" Vulkan's ability, but if in the narrative Guilliman also has a somewhat plausible reason to recover from what should be fatal injuries (beyond standard Primarch resilience) that might actually be a good thing for Vulkan.

I like Vulkan's ability, but my concern is that if he comes back to early and is known to come back after being killed, lazy writers might use him as a tool to prove how tough someone is without having to make a major change to the overall story.

Look at how tough Angron is, he killed Vulkan!
*Vulkan comes back*
Look at how tough Fulgrim is, he killed Vulkan!
*Vulkan comes back*
Look at how tough The Silent King is, he killed Vulkan!
(Repeat over and over for every new BBEG)

If Guilliman can get dismembered and come back then maybe he could at least share punching-bag status with Vulkan.

Of course this is a speculative fear and it is totally possible they wouldn't engage in that lazy way of demonstrating toughness.

I think that the Avatar of Khaine is the current punching bag for establishing how powerful someone is.

 MrVulcanator wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I'm not sure whether or not it's "stealing" Vulkan's ability, but if in the narrative Guilliman also has a somewhat plausible reason to recover from what should be fatal injuries (beyond standard Primarch resilience) that might actually be a good thing for Vulkan.

I like Vulkan's ability, but my concern is that if he comes back to early and is known to come back after being killed, lazy writers might use him as a tool to prove how tough someone is without having to make a major change to the overall story.

Look at how tough Angron is, he killed Vulkan!
*Vulkan comes back*
Look at how tough Fulgrim is, he killed Vulkan!
*Vulkan comes back*
Look at how tough The Silent King is, he killed Vulkan!
(Repeat over and over for every new BBEG)

If Guilliman can get dismembered and come back then maybe he could at least share punching-bag status with Vulkan.

Of course this is a speculative fear and it is totally possible they wouldn't engage in that lazy way of demonstrating toughness.

I think that the Avatar of Khaine is the current punching bag for establishing how powerful someone is.

pfft real men use Mortarian!

HoundsofDemos wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
How soon everyone forgets Yvraine’s intervention.

This. Gathering Storm makes it clear that Cawl's armor and gadgets would not have been enough to bring him back. Bobby G got a one time deal to get him back on his feet via space elf death magic and some weird tech. Vulkan could recover from some insane level of punishment over and over with no outside intervention.

It's not entirely clear outside of very specific circumstance if Vulkan could actually die.

oh, he can die. But if anything that just pisses him off more when he comes back!

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
This has been sitting at the back of my mind for quite a while. Isn't Vulkan's ability to come back to life? Why give Guilliman a similar one? It feels like a fluff line was crossed.

Vulkan is a perpetual. Which effectively means NOTHING can keep you from coming back. Stabbed in the heart? You'll heal. Poisoned? You'll eventually outlast it. Have your body torn apart and fed to wolves? You'll reform from the remains. Have your body tossed into a star? You'll be reborn somewhere.

Perpetuals are basically divine impossible resurrection. Nothing can stop it from happening.

Gulliman is just being kept alive via some techno-sorcery, he never technically died. And nothing is really preventing him from dying in the future. Thats nowhere near the power of a Perpetual.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Perpetuals are basically divine impossible resurrection. Nothing can stop it from happening.

Except fulgurite(sp?). Infused with part of Emperor's power that can stop it.

pm713 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
In Dark Imperium Guilliman seems to survive without his armour.

Probably had time to heal

The whole point was he couldn't heal. He was meant to be in stasis or die. So no armour, no living.

Or the new armour plus Primarch powers means he is fine now....well depressed and bitter but not dying....

Which colossally dumps on the lore but that seems to be the standard now.

Is that the same lore that stated he was healing in stasis?

 Mr Morden wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
In Dark Imperium Guilliman seems to survive without his armour.

Probably had time to heal

The whole point was he couldn't heal. He was meant to be in stasis or die. So no armour, no living.

Or the new armour plus Primarch powers means he is fine now....well depressed and bitter but not dying....

Which colossally dumps on the lore but that seems to be the standard now.

Is that the same lore that stated he was healing in stasis?

The lore that explicitly said that he wasn't. It's literally opposite to a key part of 40k Imperium.

 Grey Templar wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
This has been sitting at the back of my mind for quite a while. Isn't Vulkan's ability to come back to life? Why give Guilliman a similar one? It feels like a fluff line was crossed.

Vulkan is a perpetual. Which effectively means NOTHING can keep you from coming back. Stabbed in the heart? You'll heal. Poisoned? You'll eventually outlast it. Have your body torn apart and fed to wolves? You'll reform from the remains. Have your body tossed into a star? You'll be reborn somewhere.

Perpetuals are basically divine impossible resurrection. Nothing can stop it from happening.

Gulliman is just being kept alive via some techno-sorcery, he never technically died. And nothing is really preventing him from dying in the future. Thats nowhere near the power of a Perpetual.

Perpetuals can die, or at least it's mainly thought they can, just only other perpetuals know, possibly the high lords and a few "god killer" weapons. But killing a perpetual weakens the power of all the others and so perpetuals try not to kill each other.

pm713 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
In Dark Imperium Guilliman seems to survive without his armour.

Probably had time to heal

The whole point was he couldn't heal. He was meant to be in stasis or die. So no armour, no living.

Or the new armour plus Primarch powers means he is fine now....well depressed and bitter but not dying....

Which colossally dumps on the lore but that seems to be the standard now.

Is that the same lore that stated he was healing in stasis?

The lore that explicitly said that he wasn't. It's literally opposite to a key part of 40k Imperium.

from the SM Codex:

There are some, however, who claim the Primarch's body do change. They say that Guillimans body is slowly recovering and that his wounds show mysterious signs of healing.

Its debated in universe.

As per fluff, Girlyman was put into stasis which prevented him from actually dying. While in the stasis, his natural superhuman healing factor slowly regenerated him over 10,000 years, which I would compare to natural healing process we'd go through if we had a cut (the superhuman part being his cells capable of undergoing cell division while under stasis, where even his cells should have been under stasis). Speculations would point that he was actually fully healed prior to the Ynnead's intervention which woke him up from his slumber.

Vul'kan's ability is that he's simply immortal. Girlyman CAN die, but he has this super duper armor that can prevent him from suffering a mortal wound (not to be confused with in game term mortal wounds). His rule in game merely shows this translated into game terms - it doesn't necessarilly imply he cannot die like Vul'kan.

 Mr Morden wrote:

pm713 wrote:

The lore that explicitly said that he wasn't. It's literally opposite to a key part of 40k Imperium.

from the SM Codex:

There are some, however, who claim the Primarch's body do change. They say that Guillimans body is slowly recovering and that his wounds show mysterious signs of healing.

Its debated in universe.

Yeah, self contradictory fluff, it's what makes 40k a great place for your own stories and makes taking the lore seriously impossible unless you're going to cherry pick.

Yuup, as to the armour there are contradictions in recent publications as to wether or not Bobby G can leave it.

From the novel it feels like the armor, while one aspect of what brought him back, isn't active anymore. Even though the crunch makes it seem that way.

 Earth127 wrote:
Yuup, as to the armour there are contradictions in recent publications as to wether or not Bobby G can leave it.

no there isn't. there's one comment in gathering storm that says he can't. but he's been seen leaving it since and it's explained in a short story

The short story is “Armour if Fate,” and it details Roboutte’s annoyance with the armor, and his quest to remove without dying.