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Inspired by this thread here, I was wondering whom we think would beat whom in one-on-one fisticuffs between the Primarchs.

To keep the question specific, I'll impose the following parameters:
- No armour, no weapons, birthday suits only.
- Environmental factors: none. This is a closed arena that confers no advantages either way.
- Pre-Heresy only. No Chaos gift shenanigans.
- Certain character defining characteristics are allowed, even if they seem to contradict the first parameter, meaning things like Magnus's psychic prowess and Ferrus Manus's arms.
- The twins fight as a pair.
- With respect to Vulkan, I'm only looking for whom kills whom first, so he still loses even he's not permanently dead.
- Draws are allowed if it pleases you.

Present your answers in an ordered list if you please, but if you feel this isn't possible because of things like rock-paper-scissors type results, or just because you feel the question is childish and meaningless (pro-tip: it is, but I'm bored ) feel free to share that too!

I was going to kick things off, but then I realised I've no clue on what to base an answer .

Post scriptum: I did do a quick search to make sure this hasn't been asked 40,000 times before and this not-quite-the-same question is all I found.

Post post scriptum: actually, let's democratise the answer and make a poll. Vote for your champ. And remember, the only real loser is the one who attacks someone for their opinion.

Thanks for referencing my thread.

I am inclined to vote Lion (Though this might just be biased thinking).

However I do believe it would be a close match between Lion, Horus, Magnus and Russ.

Reasons. Magnus even before Chaos shenanigans was quite the powerhouse psyker. So if he gets the time to start doing his psyker stuff he could be quite the power house. However Russ seems ot have a resistance to this somewhat and other psykers like Lorgar in the arena may cause disruptions and stop certain powers going off. So I think there would be opportunity for him to be put down.

Russ is skilled however he has been beat before one on one. (People may say sucker punch but a win is a win). I think his brothers would be more confident against him than others so he would end up in more brawls and inevitably more exhausted coming down to final few.

Horus is a powerhouse and very skilled. However he was known to be hot headed and very very impulsive. The Lion too but in battle he was always composed.

I think the Lion strategic personality and battle prowess would give him the much needed edge to come on top.

I'm not sure having Alpharius and Omegon fighting as a pair is really fair. Alpharius on his own almost killed Dorn in a duel, and even if they are smaller and physically weaker than their other brothers, the differences aren't so drastic that it's going to mean a 2v1 is fair. Moreso when you consider perfectly coordinated, multi-pronged attacks are literally the Alpha Legion's thing.

Disregarding them, there's a couple of Primarchs that I think are the underdogs here that have one-on-one feats far outstripping their brothers. Lorgar was able to beat freaking An'ggrath in a duel, which is admittedly pretty stupid but it happened. Ferrus Manus literally wrestled and beat down what is heavily implied to be a C'tan/shard of a C'tan with his bare hands and came out of it with solid metal hands. I'd say the two of them are good contenders for beating the crap out of their brothers on a good day in a one-on-one fist fight.

I'd go Russ. Nobody else grew up in glorified pub fights.

I’m betting on Magnus. I mean, he’s the second most powerful psyker in the galaxy. Sure his brothers may be better fighters, but without their weapons and armor, they’re just bringing fists to a psychic mind-bullet fight.

 Drakzilla wrote:
I’m betting on Magnus. I mean, he’s the second most powerful psyker in the galaxy. Sure his brothers may be better fighters, but without their weapons and armor, they’re just bringing fists to a psychic mind-bullet fight.

Ever heard of 'deny the witch'?

Psychic effects are relative - it depends on the user's attunement to the warp as well as the target's resistance against it.

pm713 wrote:
I'd go Russ. Nobody else grew up in glorified pub fights.

Angron grew up in the gladiatorial ring...

If Magnus can use his powers then I'd put my money on him against pretty much everyone other than Horus and maybe Russ. Depends on how big the arena is and how quick they can get to him. The most recent books make it clear that Horus and Russ were a cut above the rest in combat and I don't see anyone else doing that well against them.

You said fist fight. That means Ferrus is the only correct answer.

I'd think Angron would be a contender - seeing as he has plenty of experience at pit fighting

The Lions track record is quite good.

My first reaction is Angron.

I know he doesn't have a ton of stealth or guile, and there's every chance that one of the sneaky ones (the twins, Corax, the Lion, or Curze) engages him when they're fresh and he's spent, but I still think he might pull it out.

Angron. He can take a severe amount of punishment and doesn't know the meaning of holding back. These are the two most important things in a brawl

I think the Lion and Ferrus Manus would also be two of the last standing. Lion because he's practically the perfect warrior both physically and mentally and Manus because he's hard as nails and has metal hands.

Angron survived a skyscraper fall on him, is probably the angriest of the bunch and the most adept at close combat. Maybe Magnus though depending on warp power shenanigans.

So far as I'm aware, The Lion is the only one to have actually won a bout of fisticuffs - and that was against Leman Russ.

That's a pretty decent indicator of who might be the champion pugilist.

I fear Angron would be somewhat hampered by his Butcher's Nails, as he may be at a disadvantage against a calmer, more calculating brother.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So far as I'm aware, The Lion is the only one to have actually won a bout of fisticuffs - and that was against Leman Russ.

That's a pretty decent indicator of who might be the champion pugilist.

I fear Angron would be somewhat hampered by his Butcher's Nails, as he may be at a disadvantage against a calmer, more calculating brother.

Angron won a fistfight against Russ as well, after he shattered his weapons. Meaning Russ seems to loose quite a lot of fist fights.

The butchers nails are actually an advantage in this situation. Fighting against someone who doesn't care about holding back or getting hurt, is incredible hard, as he would just keep on coming after you, even if it means taking a hit himself.

Considering Angron basically lived in an arena for the the first years, he already knows everything about this kind of fight.

 Nerak wrote:
Angron survived a skyscraper fall on him, is probably the angriest of the bunch and the most adept at close combat. Maybe Magnus though depending on warp power shenanigans.

if its just a fist fight this goes poorly. I think Angron doesn't knwo what a fistfight is and would immediately try to kill everyone.

Same for Colonel Kurtz...er Nighthaunter. He wouldn't fight, but would sneakily try to kill everyone.

Russ would just treat this as...Thursday.

I still think Russ would ultimately win a fistfight were it to be plot-relevant.

If psychic powers are allowed Magnus wins because psychic powers are basically cheating.

If no psychic powers are allowed... I vote Horus Lupercal. The Luna Wolves were never the most powerful psykers, or the most meticulous strategists, or the most ferocious hand-to-hand combatants. Their chapter and primarch are characterized by an overwhelming pride and ambition that were only ever rivaled by the emperor Himself. If Horus really wanted to come out on top in this fist fight, then he would come out on top. No question.

After all, up until the Heresy Horus's entire character was defined by one trait: winning.

And then he lost.

We are talking pre-Heresy here

Ferris Manus for sure. In straight fist fight his fists are freaking living metal.

 JamesY wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I'd go Russ. Nobody else grew up in glorified pub fights.

Angron grew up in the gladiatorial ring...

A gladiatorial fight is not a pub fight. There's no weird singing, drinking, random animals and the whole thing is organised. But I will admit I forgot Angron existed there.

I don’t think naked fist fights are a good representation. I mean Ferrus has pseudo metal fists and Sanguinius has wings.

But if you’d allow me to diverge from that initial premise, I believe that using their respective advantages, and equipment, the canon would be that:

Russ, Fulgrim are the deadliest 1 on 1 duelists.

Sanguinius could match them mostly because of his prescience and mobility.

With Angron and the Lion following closely behind - though the former is more angry and brutal than skilled and the latter while a skilled swordsman is actually more of a tactician.

The above though is not reflected in HH tabletop stats - just fluff.

pm713 wrote:

 JamesY wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I'd go Russ. Nobody else grew up in glorified pub fights.

Angron grew up in the gladiatorial ring...

A gladiatorial fight is not a pub fight. There's no weird singing, drinking, random animals and the whole thing is organised. But I will admit I forgot Angron existed there.

The op didn't state that it was a pub fight, but a fist fight. A boxing match is an organised fist fight, and arguably the modern equivalent of the gladiatorial spectacle. In fairness also, I'm just not a Russ fan.

 Niiai wrote:
The Lions track record is quite good.

No, it's not. The Lion lost his first fight against Curze, and it was unfair in the Lion's favor. It started with the Lion sucker-stabbing Curze in the gut, was closely matched sword against claws, and then ended in a Curze win with Curze choking the life out of the Lion. The only reason the Lion didn't die was due to outside interference.... and that was a match that started will for the Lion. Deprived of weapons, at full health, and without outside influence, Curze defeats the Lion, no contest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Characters that are definitely out: Lion (lost to Curze solidly in a fight that a brawl), Dorn, Russ (solid loss to Angron), Lorgar, Guilliman (almost killed by a handful of Alpha Legionnaires, ran from Angron, etc).

I have my doubts: Fulgrim,

Crap! Time for work. Will finish this later. Maybe we should do a bracket, since its March Madness, and pair random primarchs in brawls and see who wins by vote.

@Empnortonll credit where it's due, sucker punching Curze is no easy feat, what with his prescience and all.

I vote Angron.

You don't survive years in gladatorial pit fights without picking up all the knowledge needed. As best im aware, he doesn't lose 1v1 against anyone. Angron lost to Russ due to outside involvement by the Space Wolves stopping him. The butchers nails give him the stamina to keep powering through the whole contest. The very act of fighting rejuvenating and invigorating him to further violence.

And considering the lack of aptmospheric advantages, i gotta give it to him. No real weapons otherwise, nowhere to hide.

Well Fulgrim actually beat Ferrus - and I’m not talking about Isstvan but rather prior to that on Ferrus’s ship. Ferrus only lived then because Fulgrim spared him because of sentimentality.

As for Russ - he wounded post-Molech-Chaos-powered Horus.
Edit - And Russ was built to kill other Primarch.

Angron is angry and brutal but not actually a skillful duelist.

 KiloFiX wrote:
Well Fulgrim actually beat Ferrus - and I’m not talking about Isstvan but rather prior to that on Ferrus’s ship. Ferrus only lived then because Fulgrim spared him because of sentimentality.

As for Russ - he wounded post-Molech-Chaos-powered Horus.
Edit - And Russ was built to kill other Primarch.

Angron is angry and brutal but not actually a skillful duelist.

We're not talking duelling. We're talking something between a barfight and unnarmed combat.