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Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Hello,

This question might sound a tad stupid but I need some clarification:

Is overwatch considered a "shooting phase"?

The rules state:
"Overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Charge phase) and uses all the normal rules" (Warhammer 40k Battle Primer, p.8)

Can one use shooting phase strategems like Bolter Drill or abilities like Ork Dakka!Dakka!Dakka! ?
Question related to this: if a unit gets to shoot "as if it were the Shooting phase" can it use shooting phase stratagems? I recall an FAQ talking about Chapter Ancients and what "as if it were the Shooting phase" actually works but I cannot find it.

Also, if an Ork player uses More Dakka! in the overwatch phase (Assuming D!D!D!) works in overwatch does it mean orks autohit on 5 and 6s even though overwatch states that only 6s hit?

Having some games with an Ork friend and I want to check if I what I think the answers are to the above questions are correct.\

Thanks

EDITS: Basic spelling and format editing

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/03/16 03:42:27


 
   
Made in ca
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





No. Overwatch, while a shooting attack, is not a (the) shooting phase, because that only refers to the actual phase of the turn.

Many abilities and rules tell you to treat out-of-phase shooting/melee attacks as the phase in question, but it's important to remember that you're still not in that phase.

As for when different abilities apply, the wording on each different rule will point you in a mostly correct direction. For example, DDD applies when the Ork is making an attack with a ranged weapon, so applies any time they shoot. MD says to use it in the Shooting Phase, so can only be used in that phase.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/16 04:10:33


 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

No. Overwatch is not a Shooting Phase. It is a shooting attack, but does not take place during the Shooting Phase.

No Stratagem or other ability that can be used or takes effect during the Shooting Phase are allows to be used in conjunction with Overwatch.

And no, you still can't use Stratagems that are used during the Shooting Phase when acting as if the Shooting Phase. While such shooting attacks follow the rules and restrictions of the Shooting Phase, you cannot activate anything that requires it to be the Shooting Phase to activate.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 alextroy wrote:
No. Overwatch is not a Shooting Phase. It is a shooting attack, but does not take place during the Shooting Phase.

No Stratagem or other ability that can be used or takes effect during the Shooting Phase are allows to be used in conjunction with Overwatch.

And no, you still can't use Stratagems that are used during the Shooting Phase when acting as if the Shooting Phase. While such shooting attacks follow the rules and restrictions of the Shooting Phase, you cannot activate anything that requires it to be the Shooting Phase to activate.


So how come character protection that is in shooting phase is applied when you shoot in movement phase as if shooting phase applies? Logically if you can't use strategems because it's not shooting phase character protection that applies only in shooting phase shouldn't work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also specifically for ork related. Dakkadakkadakka rule makes zero mentions of shooting phase so that's clear anyway. However the strategem morre dakka is in any case illegal as it's activated at the start of shooting phase rather than when unit shoots so you you can't be activating it in any case.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/16 06:32:25


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

You can’t play Shooting Phase Stratagems in Overwatch, because that happens in the Charge Phase.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





But if other things like character protection work outside shooting phase when it's shot as if shooting phase what's the difference? You have one thing that works only in shooting phase that works outside shooting phase when it's resolved as if shooting phase but other thing not?

GW games are illogical but surely not that illogical and in that case where's the relevant rules?

Character protection applies only in shooting phase. Except when you are shooting in non-shooting phase "as if it was shooting phase". As it is "as if it was shooting phase" would be 100% irrelevant statement if it didn't.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






It is confusing at first, but heres the general stuff.


Overwatch hits on unmodified 6's and uses the same rules as the shooting phase as far as "pick a weapon, roll to hit, roll to wound" and so on. Your dice can still be effected by auras given by characters (such as the deathwatch master's rerolls to hit aura), but other than that cannot be changed unless you have an ability that explicitly says it affects overwatch (such as Tau' cept overwatching on 5+ and some warlord traits).

-1 to hit abilities that are always active still work, but since you always hit on 6's, do not do much. They do prevent Tesla and the rare Tau' cept sniper drone overwatch from hitting on 5's if there are no drone controllers nearby.


You cannot use stratagems that say they happen only in the shooting phase. Character protection also does not apply to overwatch. If a character charges it may be overwatched, even if its not the closest model.



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Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

Tneva - No, that wording tells you what rules to use to govern the shots fired. How else do you resolve a shot in e.g. the Psychic Ohase, which has no rules for shooting? It’s shorthand for “resolve the shots how we said earlier so we don’t need to repeat ourselves”. It doesn’t change the name of the Phase allowing Stratagems for one Phase in another.

Honestly, we’ve been round this merry-go-round so many times in 18 mths and consensus has never been that you can play Shooting strats in Overwatch. What’s changed that makes you think we’ve all been misreading since 8th launched?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/16 09:20:06


 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

tneva82 wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
No. Overwatch is not a Shooting Phase. It is a shooting attack, but does not take place during the Shooting Phase.

No Stratagem or other ability that can be used or takes effect during the Shooting Phase are allows to be used in conjunction with Overwatch.

And no, you still can't use Stratagems that are used during the Shooting Phase when acting as if the Shooting Phase. While such shooting attacks follow the rules and restrictions of the Shooting Phase, you cannot activate anything that requires it to be the Shooting Phase to activate.
So how come character protection that is in shooting phase is applied when you shoot in movement phase as if shooting phase applies? Logically if you can't use strategems because it's not shooting phase character protection that applies only in shooting phase shouldn't work.

Also specifically for ork related. Dakkadakkadakka rule makes zero mentions of shooting phase so that's clear anyway. However the strategem morre dakka is in any case illegal as it's activated at the start of shooting phase rather than when unit shoots so you you can't be activating it in any case.
The Character targeting restriction applies during the Shooting Phase. It therefore applies when firing "as if the shooting phase". Thus GW FAQ States:
Q: If I use a Stratagem such as Auspex Scan or Forewarned to shoot with a unit ‘as if it were the Shooting phase’, does the restriction on not being able to target an enemy Character with a Wounds characteristic of 10 or less apply, even though that Stratagem is being used in the Movement phase?
A: Yes.

Q: Can a unit fire Overwatch at a Character if, when it declares its charge at them, there are other visible enemy models that are closer?
A: Yes.
DakkaDakkaDakka is not phase dependent and therefore does apply during Overwatch.
   
 
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