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OK, let’s say that Alfa Romeo is Italy’s answer to BMW, just as Fiat is Italy’s answer to VW.

What does this make Jaguar then? Me, I say it’s Britain’s answer to Mercedes Benz, due to its mixture of luxury and performance, and the fact that it’s often driven by older people. Or at least, it should be, even though it’s probably falling well short of that.

But some of my friends say that it’s more like Audi or BMW. I don’t see that though. They usually have a ‘younger’ image.

What do you guys think?

 Future War Cultist wrote:
OK, let’s say that Alfa Romeo is Italy’s answer to BMW, just as Fiat is Italy’s answer to VW.

What does this make Jaguar then? Me, I say it’s Britain’s answer to Mercedes Benz, due to its mixture of luxury and performance, and the fact that it’s often driven by older people. Or at least, it should be, even though it’s probably falling well short of that.

But some of my friends say that it’s more like Audi or BMW. I don’t see that though. They usually have a ‘younger’ image.

What do you guys think?

I'm thinking that your mates need to see the sharp end of your boot!

Jaguar has always oozed class and luxury for me. Can't beat a mahogany dashboard

And while we're at it, I'm getting all misty eyed for MG. The cars they used to produce. Brings a tear to the eye.

I don't think they're an answer to anything. I would argue their original soul was around the beautiful (and cheap compared to its competitors) road-going coupe or convertible. The E-Type was a market crushing success when it arrived.

However, unlike many other companies who went from a key model to develop into a long-standing car company which developed an iconic "feel"...Jaguar plummeted too many times and was bought too many times to have a real solid IP identity to me.

When I think Jaguar I think of the following three things in this order:

1) Used to make the awesome E-Type, etc.
2) Then made boring garbage while owned by a number of other companies...
3) Then made the very sexy modern F-Type.

There isn't a consistent view I have of Jaguar, as an American. I just see it as a troubled company bought and sold, bought and sold...with an occasional hit.

I’d argue BMW, Lexus, Acura. Affordable luxury that is more for upper middle class.

Not really answering your original question but a view from nearly 50ish bloke. People drive Jags at my age just because they are not BMWs and Audi’s . Every man and his dog has a Beemer so they are as common as muck even though they are excellent cars. You drive a Jag and an Aston because they are rare,it’s an elite club thing.

A jag also has whiff of Englishness about it unlike the German invader,yes it’s a rubbish concept but that’s what people think.

Finally it’s a pub thing.Nothing sounds better in pub when you drop in the Jaaaaggg word into a conversation .

Anyway just my view and I drive a Toyota lol

A 500 plus bhp Toyota but hey I have no class.

I think a Jag is a slight cut above the German troika. Whilst all 3 have models that can match the performance, they tend to be more niche, and even a little understated (the AMG, M & RS models aren't always easy to spot for a layperson, whilst a supercar Jag is).

Having said that, I'm not enamoured of Jags, even though my brother has an XKR (outside that and mine we're all Clan Porsche). At the moment I'm enjoying a JCW Mini but if I can find the right one, my next car is a TTRS.

I'd say Jaguar might be a cut above - in terms of style and "rarity", but definitely not in quality or performance.

Not an answer to anything; just something to fix up and get into the countryside.

Rejuvenate.

I live in a lower class neighborhood, and a jaguar was destroyed in a garage fire here a year or so ago. I have absolutely no idea what a jaguar was doing in my neighborhood...

they arent an answer to anything. back in their heyday they were a breed apart.

its all about that 'hood ornament' or as its properly known: bonnet mascot.

The E-type has already been covered.

My old man has a mk1 and mk2, and used to have an XJ6. Theyre beautiful cars.

Morgan Motors was sold into foreign ownership in March.

This leaves Aston Martin as the only British owned road car manufacturer left, though even then some of their investors are from Dubai.

The difference between Mercedes and BMW is that Mercedes make vehicles for every application, ranging from the Smart car to huge coaches and lorries. BMW only do the regular six or seven ranges from a compact to a sports car.

What about McClaren, and those other ones, Caterham and Ariel? Either way...I’m sad to hear that...even though I probably shouldn’t be.

I’m going to agree with lots of you guys here and say that Jaguar is in a bit of a league of its own. Mercedes, as good as they are, are also very common, serving as everything from taxis to lorries and buses. Same for Audi and BMW, who are also often used as taxis and police cars etc. Jaguar isn’t like that. Jaguar oozes exclusivity and class, even if they aren’t as good to drive as a German rival or are even as well made.

When somebody tells me that they have a Beamer or a Merc I’m like eh, ok. But when somebody tells me that they have a jag, they peak my interest. Only Alfa Romeo rivals it in my books.

And as the I-Pace shows, they’ve still got ‘it’ so to speak. I don’t particularly care for SUVs but that one looks like it’s something really special. During the 70s, 80s and 90s jags might have gained a reputation as an ‘old farts’ car but they were never supposed to be that. Before that, they were advanced and cutting edge. The Mark 2 was the M5 of its day, and the E-Type...what more can I say? A literal Ferrari rival in every way except the price, where it won hands down.

I just worry about it’s future tbh. I’d be gutted to see it go. And I’m sad to see it’s salons suffering in sales. Again, it’s that bloody crossover suv scam again.

 Riquende wrote:
I think a Jag is a slight cut above the German troika. Whilst all 3 have models that can match the performance, they tend to be more niche, and even a little understated (the AMG, M & RS models aren't always easy to spot for a layperson, whilst a supercar Jag is).

Having said that, I'm not enamoured of Jags, even though my brother has an XKR (outside that and mine we're all Clan Porsche). At the moment I'm enjoying a JCW Mini but if I can find the right one, my next car is a TTRS.

AMG understated? RS and M cars are hardly low key, but AMG? Have you seen an A45 AMG? About the only thing less subtle is a Civic Type R. The XFR is quite subtle from the outside IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
What about McClaren, and those other ones, Caterham and Ariel?

And Noble, Radical, Bowler, Bristol, Ginetta, TVR (although to be fair they have failed to make anything under the current British ownership).l and many more.

IMHO, you're coming about things all wrong. . . The oldest, or most storied motor companies did not set out thinking directly about who their "rival" is. In business terms, that is worrying too much over what the other guy is doing, and is a guaranteed recipe for failure. I just strongly disagree with the notion that Alfa is Italy's "answer" to any other company, nor is Fiat their "answer" to VW. . . . In Fiat's case, their size and prominence came about really around the same time as VW, and they happened to be offering similar products: cheap, affordable cars for the masses who needed to get moving after WW2. I simply do not think that entire companies operate as an answer to some unasked question. . . . Now, individual cars, yeah, there's plenty of car models that have been made directly as a result of a key rival (ie, the De Tomaso Mangusta as a "cobra killer", the Chevy Exorcist in relation to the Dodge Demon, etc)

The rivalries that sprang up over time are due to the old thinking and traditions that came about during the earliest years of motoring. Back in the 1900s-1910s, manufacturers were trying to supplant the horse drawn carriage as the preferred mode of transport, and so they staged endurance races, rally races, and any other sort of motoring exhibition they could think of do demonstrate why they had a superior offering to horses. In these early years, cars were still quite finicky and unreliable, so these events became selling points, "Look at how much distance my car covered at Le Mans! We ran a full 24 hour race with this car, and it never broke!"

The main "Jaaaag"-ness came about in the 1950s when, as I understand things, the UK auto industry was literally an island of its own, and people could not buy a Ferrari or Mercedes, or certain lines of Ford (ie, the mustang. . . but ya could get the Cortina). . . So, the Jag operated somewhere near the sphere of Rolls. . . I'd liken them to having something of a similar relation to Audi and Mercedes: Jag equates to the sporty minded Audi, while Rolls holds the position of the Benz line.

As an American, whrn I hear "Jaguar", I think of lots of maintenance issues, old people, and expensive repair shops. Whereas with BMW or Mercedes, i think of overcompensated morons who are intent on killing everyone else on the road and the poor bastards who have the purposeless job of installing turn signals in them.

If you really want to compare british with german cars:

Rolls = Mercedes
Aston Martin = Porsche
Bentley = BMW
Cooper = Trabbi
Vauxhall = Opel (literally)
Jaguar = Audi

Jaguar is the answer to keeping mechanics employed.

Growing up my dad had one that was constantly at the shop needing an endless string of repairs. He was lucky to drive it one month out of the year.

As a member of a family of petrolheads focused (ironically) on german and british cars (as well as the odd Volvo, we're swedish after all) I wouldn't say that a Jaguar necessarily answers to anything german, especially not Audi or BMW.

If you really want to force a comparison I'd say it's closer to a Mercedes (classy luxury with a whiff of performance and generally driven by older people), but that's still not saying all that much.

With that said I'm probably still living in the 90's and early 00's in regards to what I consider "a jag" to be.
Looking at their current lineup of cars (most of whom I've never actually seen) I'd say they do seem very influenced by BWM/Audi. Meh...

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


And while we're at it, I'm getting all misty eyed for MG. The cars they used to produce. Brings a tear to the eye.

Ahh, MG...
That silly little brand has haunted my family (especially my father) for decades.

Between myself, my bother and my father we own: 2x MGB GT's, 1x MGC GT, 1x ZR 160, 2x ZS 180 and 1x ZT 190.
Previous owned cars include a MGA and a MGB Roadster, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a TF 160 on the driveway before summer's over.

Someone, make an intervention...

Future War Cultist wrote: Same for Audi and BMW, who are also often used as taxis and police cars etc. Jaguar isn’t like that.

There have always been police Jags haven't there?

Steve steveson wrote:

AMG understated? RS and M cars are hardly low key, but AMG? Have you seen an A45 AMG? About the only thing less subtle is a Civic Type R. The XFR is quite subtle from the outside IMO.

Okay, so the A45 has a whacking great spoiler on it (I think it's part of an exterior pack, so can be removed if ordering new) to make it look very 'hot hatch', but that's not universal for the AMG line. And I did say that it would hard for a 'layperson' to spot a performance model - yes, they all tend to have big coloured brakes, sportier and more flared grilles etc but they aren't proper head turners in the way true sports-styled cars are.

Obviously things like the Audi R8, the various top end AMG models buck the trend a bit!

The "Jaaag" image is basically upper-class, but with a bit of an edge. The Top Gear/Grand Tour crew had a running joke about "Jaaag" drivers who would get a round in at Ascot, but leave you to pay because "sorry, I've left my wallet in my other jacket", and then slope off with your partner while you're busy. That's why their recent ad campaign was Tom Hiddlestone, Sir Ben Kingsley and Mark Strong driving them pretending to be Bond villains (and two actual Bond villains have driven jags - in Die Another Day and Spectre.

Morse drove a mark II Jaguar because it had style. Villains drove jags because they had some oomph (and the cops drove them to keep up with the wrong 'uns).

There used to be a lot of police jags. Not as much anymore. I’m...not sure if that’s a good or bad thing.

Also, since they’ve paired up with Land Rover, and saloon sales are declining, I worry if they can’t really compete with their sister company. Like, would most people prefer a Range Rover over an...F-Pace, is it?

Range Rovers aren't what they used to be. The first ever Range Rover was basically a Land Rover with a smart and comfy body put on it. Land Rover don't actually make Land Rovers any more.

To get back to the topic, Jaguar's range has always been concentrated on medium to large saloons and sports cars, for middle to higger management types. The equivalent of the Mercedes C, E and S ranges.

The police don't use Jags at the moment, but they are the standard official car for government ministers and so on.

Jags do have a bit of an "old guy's car" image, but that's a holdover from the time 10-15 years ago when they were putting fairly old-fashioned interiors into their cars. And Inspector Morse.

@ killkrazy

I’d ask why there aren’t more Jag police cars but I’m worried that it would veer towards the dreaded ‘p’ word.

Could they get rid of the old guy image...do they even need to?

 Vaktathi wrote:
As an American, whrn I hear "Jaguar", I think of lots of maintenance issues, old people, and expensive repair shops. Whereas with BMW or Mercedes, i think of overcompensated morons who are intent on killing everyone else on the road and the poor bastards who have the purposeless job of installing turn signals in them.

Agreed on almost every point except the Mercedes. I don't find Mercedes drivers to be that bad, overall. I'd swap that one out for Audi. It's a jagoff-mobile.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ killkrazy

I’d ask why there aren’t more Jag police cars but I’m worried that it would veer towards the dreaded ‘p’ word.

Could they get rid of the old guy image...do they even need to?

I have no idea, but I think different forces buy different types of vehicles for various roles based on cost/benefit.

If you look at Jaguar's recent adverts, they feature young women drivers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-z8YpfKvCE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3294Lw7-tYY

Those were 2017 to 2018. The latest ones with Eva Green aren't as funny IMO but maybe they are more sophisticated..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmPzHmamgtM

 Vaktathi wrote:
As an American, whrn I hear "Jaguar", I think of lots of maintenance issues, old people, and expensive repair shops. Whereas with BMW or Mercedes, i think of overcompensated morons who are intent on killing everyone else on the road and the poor bastards who have the purposeless job of installing turn signals in them.

True but I also think British Racing Green and and a peerless body style.



Interestingly, Volvo used a Jaguar designed body to create this beauty. Dad and I tweaked the engine on one and that thing would pure and hold California mountain turns like no ones business.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
As an American, whrn I hear "Jaguar", I think of lots of maintenance issues, old people, and expensive repair shops. Whereas with BMW or Mercedes, i think of overcompensated morons who are intent on killing everyone else on the road and the poor bastards who have the purposeless job of installing turn signals in them.

True but I also think British Racing Green and and a peerless body style.

My uncle had an XJ6 when I was wee. I was always jealous that my dad only had an Austin Montego.

As for that Volvo, what a happy-looking car that is.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
As an American, whrn I hear "Jaguar", I think of lots of maintenance issues, old people, and expensive repair shops. Whereas with BMW or Mercedes, i think of overcompensated morons who are intent on killing everyone else on the road and the poor bastards who have the purposeless job of installing turn signals in them.

True but I also think British Racing Green and and a peerless body style.

My uncle had an XJ6 when I was wee. I was always jealous that my dad only had an Austin Montego.

As for that Volvo, what a happy-looking car that is.

It was FUN! Pain in the ass every year as we had to strip everything off and put the old stuff back on to get it inspected but it was great. It was only a few inches off the ground and it cornered like a dream.

gorgon wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
As an American, whrn I hear "Jaguar", I think of lots of maintenance issues, old people, and expensive repair shops. Whereas with BMW or Mercedes, i think of overcompensated morons who are intent on killing everyone else on the road and the poor bastards who have the purposeless job of installing turn signals in them.

Agreed on almost every point except the Mercedes. I don't find Mercedes drivers to be that bad, overall. I'd swap that one out for Audi. It's a jagoff-mobile.

Oh man how did I forget about Audis? Literally every person Ive ever personally met who owns one, bar a single used owner, has been living up their own bum.

Frazzled wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
As an American, whrn I hear "Jaguar", I think of lots of maintenance issues, old people, and expensive repair shops. Whereas with BMW or Mercedes, i think of overcompensated morons who are intent on killing everyone else on the road and the poor bastards who have the purposeless job of installing turn signals in them.

True but I also think British Racing Green and and a peerless body style.

The green is a good point, I cant recall too many in any other color.

My friend says that Jaguar is no longer British (it’s Indian) and that’s true to an extent, but I think it’s still British enough in spirit. Think about it; Lamborghini is still seen as Italian even though the Germans are in charge of it.