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In light of the recent 'will they/won't they' EC threads, lets commence with the shameless wish listing!!
It's pretty easy to forecast the format of the inevitable (ahem) EC release based on what the DG and TS got, BUT I am also throwing in some true wish listing ideas, ideas that make so much sense that I am positive GW will not consider them!!
Here's what I have so far:
Models:
-New noise marines: a given. This will likely include a new champ with doom siren, a basemaster option and maybe a new option...I'm thinking somekind of percussion weapon, after all, that's all thats missing to round the band out. Maybe concussion grenade auto launcher? Sumfink like that anyway. And the actual sonic blaster models based on the new one-off model released a few months ago.
-Boxed Set: Well TS didn't get one of these as far as I can remember, but it's likely the III Legion will. This may include a set-only character model, but I hope not...It the standard so far stands it will be a (as mentioned before boxed set available only) Lord or Character, a unit of noise marines, a gribbly or vehicle (or both) and....something else, maybe.
-Gribbly/Vehicle- I am betting on what is basicly a sonic hellbrute, but be sure it will look truely drepraved and have a silly name like "Orchestral Fell-Shrieker".
-Beastmen/Cultists- These are almost a given considering the DG and TS releases. It could go either way. Both would be nice.
-New Characters- Probably a couple of these. A "Conductor of Madness" or some such thing. Maybe also an apothicary model.
The Unlikely- These are the options that make too much sense for GW to produce them.
-Sonic upgrade kit for terminators.
-Sonic upgrade kit for hellbrutes.
-Sonic upgrade kit for Predator/land raider (Land Raver).
Horus Heresy Kits-
-The Palintine Blades and Phoenix Guard
Who knows if these will be ported over in some form? I for one would love to see a worthy dedicated marine melee unit. The Phoenix guard I'm not so sure about. The DG did get two terminator options however. Maybe we will get sonic terms and Phoenix Guard.
Fulgrim- A given. I'm sure this model has already been sculped.
Well what does everyone think? I have no idea about rules or stratagems, or how daemons will interplay with this codex beyond the basic daemonettes. Maybe a daemonette band with sonic weapons?
Hail to the Prince of Chaos!
EDIT: Forgot to mention we'll see a new Lucius for sure, and perhaps and hopefully a new even more fabulous Bill with gene edited super soldiers. And who knows, GW HAS been giving us what we want and what we want is DOOM RIDER! Kuh-kuh-kuh Yeah Baby!!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/20 18:25:01
DG got plagebearers/w herald, new characters, PCB, morty, special termies, a fortification, updated rules
EC will get daemonettes and a slanesh herald, new characters, some unique vehicle (sonic dreads), Fulgrim, special termies, cultists/w FNP 6++, a fortification (think art gallery or rock stage), updated rules.
JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
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Eidolon is the core of EC in the setting right now, so an Eidolon should probably happen. Lucius and Fabius are not commanders.
I don't think everything needs to be Sonic'd up, though upgrade kit for dreads would be nice, and new Noise Marines are a must. Doesn't have to be another kit on top of that but Kakophoni or Heavy Weapon Noise squads would be nice.
EC need an assault presence, the Legion with possibly the best Astartes combatant of 30k as well as one of the best duelist, is extremely light on CC presence atm. A Palatine equivalent would be nice, though probably don't expect them to be any good until we make it out of 8th, GW is struggling with that sort of unit in this one. Though Death Company are probably playable right now if not hyper competitive, so who knows.
I don't know if I'm too concerned other than that. Phoenix Guard would be nice, otherwise I just wanna see a dex to secure them as a Codex-faction going forward, GW can iron the rest out later.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh also steed of Slashesh for HQ s please!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/20 21:50:48
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
I think, speaking hypoethicly, if emperor's children where to get a codex, we can proably count on the following
1: Plastic Noise Marines (IMHO these are prtoably coming, EC release or now, they're the kit update CSM offically need the most right now)
2: Some sort of EC exclusive Termies.
3: several characters, IMHO this is where the Palatine blades will likely come in, my guess is the Palatine blade will be a character and basicly be a super charged version of the chapter champion.
4: some form of cultist
5: Likely a deamon engine or two
6: Fulgrim.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
The new Slaanesh daemons rules have some very thematic army rules and abilities, in both AoS and 40k, and we haven't even seen everything yet. Hopefully a lot of that love is captured in any potential EC release, albeit with a slightly different tone of fanaticism. I'll just say I'm happy to see that there is definitely a Slaanesh lover on the design team for gameplay.
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
Well the biggest thing I want is fixes for the overall marine statline, because without it its basically impossible to make Noise Marines good without making them broken compared to other marines. But I know that's not really EC specific.
I'm really hoping that we see Sonic upgrade packs for existing vehicles. Sonic Dreads and Predators are what I have wanted most since 4th edition. Sonic Weapons for terminators would also be rad, but may be redundant rules wise with combi-bolters + beta bolter rule. Blastmasters available to Havocs would be killer too.
Combat drug rules would also be great, but I suspect it'll just be a stratagem.
A character that provide buffs for noise weaponry would make sense.
SHUPPET wrote: Disagree. Noise Marines are already good, even with the marine statline, they are one of the better power armor infantry out there.
I just hope any potential EC dex isn't TOO focused on the Noise gimmick, and has all sorts of crazy up in there, true to form for EC.
Being one of the better power armor infantry out there doens't mean much when power armor infantry is bad.
Sonic Blaster noise marines are not good due to their weak firepower and poor survivability for their cost.
Regular Bolter noise marines are better now that we have the beta bolter rule, and are certainly better than regular bolter CSM. But they can't take the Chain Cannon or count for Red Corsairs detachments, so they still lose to regular CSM.
Chainsword+Pistol noise marines are much worse than berzerkers, so no point in them as elites. As troops they are again better than regular CSM, but still not a good unit due to very low firepower for their price at ranged and in cc. And they can't get fearless easily or use red corsairs respawn strat, so they are worse than vanilla CSM in the same role.
Noise marines have cool rules, but they are not good, and they aren't even the best use of MeQs for their type.
Eidolon, Lord Commander Primus (a far more awesome character than Lucius)
Phoenix Guard (not fussed whether they are in their Terminator form or not)
Sonic Cult Terminators
Some kind of devoted cultist unit
A Daemon Engine
Sonic upgrade packs for existing vehicle kits would be nice, but something I don't see happening.
SHUPPET wrote: Disagree. Noise Marines are already good, even with the marine statline, they are one of the better power armor infantry out there.
I just hope any potential EC dex isn't TOO focused on the Noise gimmick, and has all sorts of crazy up in there, true to form for EC.
Being one of the better power armor infantry out there doens't mean much when power armor infantry is bad.
Sonic Blaster noise marines are not good due to their weak firepower and poor survivability for their cost.
Regular Bolter noise marines are better now that we have the beta bolter rule, and are certainly better than regular bolter CSM. But they can't take the Chain Cannon or count for Red Corsairs detachments, so they still lose to regular CSM.
Chainsword+Pistol noise marines are much worse than berzerkers, so no point in them as elites. As troops they are again better than regular CSM, but still not a good unit due to very low firepower for their price at ranged and in cc. And they can't get fearless easily or use red corsairs respawn strat, so they are worse than vanilla CSM in the same role.
Noise marines have cool rules, but they are not good, and they aren't even the best use of MeQs for their type.
Strong disagree. Noise Marines are good, and were showing up heaps in the eastern american meta, and are just a good quality unit for what you pay for. As troops, they are better than pretty much any other option available in the dex right now except maybe Red Corsair CSM, and that's just because they provide extra CP.
I wouldn't shake my head at a points decrease for Noise Marines, but they definitely aren't bad at the moment. In my opinion. I
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
SHUPPET wrote: I just hope any potential EC dex isn't TOO focused on the Noise gimmick, and has all sorts of crazy up in there, true to form for EC.
I can agree with this - plastic Noise Marines, and maybe the Kakaphoni as a Noise Havoc equivalent, but looking at other aspects of the EC (like Fabulous Bill's work, etc) would be a good move.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
SHUPPET wrote: Disagree. Noise Marines are already good, even with the marine statline, they are one of the better power armor infantry out there.
I just hope any potential EC dex isn't TOO focused on the Noise gimmick, and has all sorts of crazy up in there, true to form for EC.
Being one of the better power armor infantry out there doens't mean much when power armor infantry is bad.
Sonic Blaster noise marines are not good due to their weak firepower and poor survivability for their cost.
Regular Bolter noise marines are better now that we have the beta bolter rule, and are certainly better than regular bolter CSM. But they can't take the Chain Cannon or count for Red Corsairs detachments, so they still lose to regular CSM.
Chainsword+Pistol noise marines are much worse than berzerkers, so no point in them as elites. As troops they are again better than regular CSM, but still not a good unit due to very low firepower for their price at ranged and in cc. And they can't get fearless easily or use red corsairs respawn strat, so they are worse than vanilla CSM in the same role.
Noise marines have cool rules, but they are not good, and they aren't even the best use of MeQs for their type.
Strong disagree. Noise Marines are good, and were showing up heaps in the eastern american meta, and are just a good quality unit for what you pay for. As troops, they are better than pretty much any other option available in the dex right now except maybe Red Corsair CSM, and that's just because they provide extra CP.
I wouldn't shake my head at a points decrease for Noise Marines, but they definitely aren't bad at the moment. In my opinion. I
You're gonna need to back up that disagreement. How is 3 s4 ap0 shots for 19pts good? How is 3+ armor save and 1w for any price above like 10pts good? What way of using them do you think works?
And I'll ask for citation on the use of them in the eastern american meta.
These units are not good on paper, and are not showing up in tournament lists from recent events, so I'm really not sure where you're getting this from.
SHUPPET wrote: I just hope any potential EC dex isn't TOO focused on the Noise gimmick, and has all sorts of crazy up in there, true to form for EC.
I can agree with this - plastic Noise Marines, and maybe the Kakaphoni as a Noise Havoc equivalent, but looking at other aspects of the EC (like Fabulous Bill's work, etc) would be a good move.
Except that bill just went out and basically did all his work outside when he left the legion during the whole Horus incident. If anything it would probably better to pick up someone else no?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/24 07:34:09
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
SHUPPET wrote: Disagree. Noise Marines are already good, even with the marine statline, they are one of the better power armor infantry out there.
I just hope any potential EC dex isn't TOO focused on the Noise gimmick, and has all sorts of crazy up in there, true to form for EC.
Being one of the better power armor infantry out there doens't mean much when power armor infantry is bad.
Sonic Blaster noise marines are not good due to their weak firepower and poor survivability for their cost.
Regular Bolter noise marines are better now that we have the beta bolter rule, and are certainly better than regular bolter CSM. But they can't take the Chain Cannon or count for Red Corsairs detachments, so they still lose to regular CSM.
Chainsword+Pistol noise marines are much worse than berzerkers, so no point in them as elites. As troops they are again better than regular CSM, but still not a good unit due to very low firepower for their price at ranged and in cc. And they can't get fearless easily or use red corsairs respawn strat, so they are worse than vanilla CSM in the same role.
Noise marines have cool rules, but they are not good, and they aren't even the best use of MeQs for their type.
Strong disagree. Noise Marines are good, and were showing up heaps in the eastern american meta, and are just a good quality unit for what you pay for. As troops, they are better than pretty much any other option available in the dex right now except maybe Red Corsair CSM, and that's just because they provide extra CP.
I wouldn't shake my head at a points decrease for Noise Marines, but they definitely aren't bad at the moment. In my opinion. I
You're gonna need to back up that disagreement. How is 3 s4 ap0 shots for 19pts good? How is 3+ armor save and 1w for any price above like 10pts good? What way of using them do you think works?
And I'll ask for citation on the use of them in the eastern american meta.
These units are not good on paper, and are not showing up in tournament lists from recent events, so I'm really not sure where you're getting this from.
I don't live in the U.S., it was talked about a lot by Pablo Martinez about how they have been having a lot of impact over there, and it matches my experience over here. I'll shoot him an email and ask for a clearer picture, I didn't mean it as a trump card, I'm the first to say that tournament play is not a substitute for logic on whether a unit is good, I'm just saying they are a fair bit more popular than standard power armour and for good reason in my humble opinion.
EC Noise Marines aren't just 19 pts for 3 S4 shots, they are assault weapons, they ignore cover, and they get free rounds of shooting when they go down. In numbers they are hard to deal with efficiently, and the ability to take Blastmasters, one of the best weapons in the dex, is another big plus. They are also objective secured, oh and have 2 CC attacks standard. They are a lot closer to what power armour armies should be.
Anyway, I didn't need to cite anything, I just wanted to casually provide a different perspective, and I don't want to turn this thread into a back and forth about a single unit when there's a million other threads we can do that and only one thread for this, so if you'd like to go back and forth any further shoot me a PM and we'll talk about it, I respectfully disagree with your opinion but no biggie, I can see why you think that way.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/24 07:40:12
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
SHUPPET wrote: Disagree. Noise Marines are already good, even with the marine statline, they are one of the better power armor infantry out there.
I just hope any potential EC dex isn't TOO focused on the Noise gimmick, and has all sorts of crazy up in there, true to form for EC.
Being one of the better power armor infantry out there doens't mean much when power armor infantry is bad.
Sonic Blaster noise marines are not good due to their weak firepower and poor survivability for their cost.
Regular Bolter noise marines are better now that we have the beta bolter rule, and are certainly better than regular bolter CSM. But they can't take the Chain Cannon or count for Red Corsairs detachments, so they still lose to regular CSM.
Chainsword+Pistol noise marines are much worse than berzerkers, so no point in them as elites. As troops they are again better than regular CSM, but still not a good unit due to very low firepower for their price at ranged and in cc. And they can't get fearless easily or use red corsairs respawn strat, so they are worse than vanilla CSM in the same role.
Noise marines have cool rules, but they are not good, and they aren't even the best use of MeQs for their type.
Strong disagree. Noise Marines are good, and were showing up heaps in the eastern american meta, and are just a good quality unit for what you pay for. As troops, they are better than pretty much any other option available in the dex right now except maybe Red Corsair CSM, and that's just because they provide extra CP.
I wouldn't shake my head at a points decrease for Noise Marines, but they definitely aren't bad at the moment. In my opinion. I
You're gonna need to back up that disagreement. How is 3 s4 ap0 shots for 19pts good? How is 3+ armor save and 1w for any price above like 10pts good? What way of using them do you think works?
And I'll ask for citation on the use of them in the eastern american meta.
These units are not good on paper, and are not showing up in tournament lists from recent events, so I'm really not sure where you're getting this from.
I don't live in the U.S., it was talked about a lot by Pablo Martinez about how they have been having a lot of impact over there, and it matches my experience over here. I'll shoot him an email and ask for a clearer picture, I didn't mean it as a trump card, I'm the first to say that tournament play is not a substitute for logic on whether a unit is good, I'm just saying they are a fair bit more popular than standard power armour and for good reason in my humble opinion.
EC Noise Marines aren't just 19 pts for 3 S4 shots, they are assault weapons, they ignore cover, and they get free rounds of shooting when they go down. In numbers they are hard to deal with efficiently, and the ability to take Blastmasters, one of the best weapons in the dex, is another big plus. They are also objective secured, oh and have 2 CC attacks standard. They are a lot closer to what power armour armies should be.
Anyway, I didn't need to cite anything, I just wanted to casually provide a different perspective, and I don't want to turn this thread into a back and forth about a single unit when there's a million other threads we can do that and only one thread for this, so if you'd like to go back and forth any further shoot me a PM and we'll talk about it, I respectfully disagree with your opinion but no biggie, I can see why you think that way.
Fair enough. I mean, if they are doing well i'm very interested as I have a lot of them. But I haven't seen it, and I don't see how it could work. What you say about their weapons is true, but it still doesn't seem like enough. They just die so easily, and do less per point than most other infantry types. But yeah, we don't need to derail the thread.
I would really like to see a beastmen box, both male and female. That can serve as IG as well D: Its like my only real wish !
And a tank/walker that is a bit more regal for a demon or chaos lord to ride and some long range fire. That is more in line with some of the new demonic themes they just put out.
SHUPPET wrote: Disagree. Noise Marines are already good, even with the marine statline, they are one of the better power armor infantry out there.
I just hope any potential EC dex isn't TOO focused on the Noise gimmick, and has all sorts of crazy up in there, true to form for EC.
Being one of the better power armor infantry out there doens't mean much when power armor infantry is bad.
Sonic Blaster noise marines are not good due to their weak firepower and poor survivability for their cost.
Regular Bolter noise marines are better now that we have the beta bolter rule, and are certainly better than regular bolter CSM. But they can't take the Chain Cannon or count for Red Corsairs detachments, so they still lose to regular CSM.
Chainsword+Pistol noise marines are much worse than berzerkers, so no point in them as elites. As troops they are again better than regular CSM, but still not a good unit due to very low firepower for their price at ranged and in cc. And they can't get fearless easily or use red corsairs respawn strat, so they are worse than vanilla CSM in the same role.
Noise marines have cool rules, but they are not good, and they aren't even the best use of MeQs for their type.
Strong disagree. Noise Marines are good, and were showing up heaps in the eastern american meta, and are just a good quality unit for what you pay for. As troops, they are better than pretty much any other option available in the dex right now except maybe Red Corsair CSM, and that's just because they provide extra CP.
I wouldn't shake my head at a points decrease for Noise Marines, but they definitely aren't bad at the moment. In my opinion. I
You're gonna need to back up that disagreement. How is 3 s4 ap0 shots for 19pts good? How is 3+ armor save and 1w for any price above like 10pts good? What way of using them do you think works?
And I'll ask for citation on the use of them in the eastern american meta.
These units are not good on paper, and are not showing up in tournament lists from recent events, so I'm really not sure where you're getting this from.
I don't live in the U.S., it was talked about a lot by Pablo Martinez about how they have been having a lot of impact over there, and it matches my experience over here. I'll shoot him an email and ask for a clearer picture, I didn't mean it as a trump card, I'm the first to say that tournament play is not a substitute for logic on whether a unit is good, I'm just saying they are a fair bit more popular than standard power armour and for good reason in my humble opinion.
EC Noise Marines aren't just 19 pts for 3 S4 shots, they are assault weapons, they ignore cover, and they get free rounds of shooting when they go down. In numbers they are hard to deal with efficiently, and the ability to take Blastmasters, one of the best weapons in the dex, is another big plus. They are also objective secured, oh and have 2 CC attacks standard. They are a lot closer to what power armour armies should be.
Anyway, I didn't need to cite anything, I just wanted to casually provide a different perspective, and I don't want to turn this thread into a back and forth about a single unit when there's a million other threads we can do that and only one thread for this, so if you'd like to go back and forth any further shoot me a PM and we'll talk about it, I respectfully disagree with your opinion but no biggie, I can see why you think that way.
Fair enough. I mean, if they are doing well i'm very interested as I have a lot of them. But I haven't seen it, and I don't see how it could work. What you say about their weapons is true, but it still doesn't seem like enough. They just die so easily, and do less per point than most other infantry types. But yeah, we don't need to derail the thread.
Hey, I respect your opinion and agree I could probably do a little more to support my view. I just find the shooting before dying has better impact in practice than it does on paper. I think they miss Alpha Legion strat where you could put a pound of them in your opponents face turn 1 in cover and just have an unfriendly unit to deal with that fires again when you do. It's possible my experience is a little outdated.
SHUPPET wrote: I just hope any potential EC dex isn't TOO focused on the Noise gimmick, and has all sorts of crazy up in there, true to form for EC.
I can agree with this - plastic Noise Marines, and maybe the Kakaphoni as a Noise Havoc equivalent, but looking at other aspects of the EC (like Fabulous Bill's work, etc) would be a good move.
Except that bill just went out and basically did all his work outside when he left the legion during the whole Horus incident.
If anything it would probably better to pick up someone else no?
You're right, though he's probably going to be in the dex regardless I think, but even if he isn't, the 3rd was always very heavy on Apothecarys and genetic modification, I think the concept could still be touched on.
But we definitely need more insane duelists, and Eidolon to return, maybe a corpse/tattoo artist, other crazy EC gak imo, rather than just loud bois
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
You're right, though he's probably going to be in the dex regardless I think, but even if he isn't, the 3rd was always very heavy on Apothecarys and genetic modification, I think the concept could still be touched on.
But we definitely need more insane duelists, and Eidolon to return, maybe a corpse/tattoo artist, other crazy EC gak imo, rather than just loud bois
I CAN'T HEAR YOU TURN UP YOUR VOLUME?
What about a "Boygroup" like a parody of Harlequins, WITH NOISE?
But some experimentation surely would be nice. Maybee a DP that creates sculptures on the battlefield?
A Lord that is an Architekt.
As you said Apothecary sehanigans.
Maybee even a mobile drug van rhino?
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/04/24 08:04:25
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
I'd love a Elite choice unit which is basically a flesh crafter (Fabius Bile wannabe) and some ... 'willing' marines who have given themselves over to become insane biological weaponry.
Maybe a support piece of a dark apostle like character which can channel different 'excesses' for different benefits.
If they do anything to match what Forgeworld have done with Heresy era EC I'll be happy. Hopefully we don't get anything too stupid, the noise marine they released is cool but I wouldn't want an army to that degree.
Gir Spirit Bane wrote: I'd love a Elite choice unit which is basically a flesh crafter (Fabius Bile wannabe) and some ... 'willing' marines who have given themselves over to become insane biological weaponry.
Maybe a support piece of a dark apostle like character which can channel different 'excesses' for different benefits.
The harpdude comes to mind.
Actually i doubt marines would be willing in many cases, but a bunch of cultists?
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
