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Hey guys recently started my AM army, and so far loving it! Love the modelling and immersive side of things more than being overly gamey. But looking to grab myself a couple leman russ's shortly having only two basilisks in the form of armour atm(Also grabbing a hydra as love the idea of it!). Having looked through the options Battle cannons seem to be the best in regards to most things? Punisher gatling looks great and I know I used to run pask in that. The autocannon also seems to be pretty good too! Apart from that the others seem to be pretty meh. In terms of sponsons I gather that Heavy bolters and plasmas are still great? Just looking for general tips on tank setups.

I am by no means saying everything I just wrote is true, just what I have taken from what I have read.

Cheers

Russes are in sort of a funny spot right now, since their internal balance is all over the place.

Most people elect to take Tank Commanders since they are only a little more expensive for much better firepower. Pask is ok, and maybe an auto include if your running Cadian tanks, however, he is pretty much the biggest bullet magnet in the codex so a lot of people just give him a battle cannon to let him shoot from safer positions.

In general the battle cannon is the most reliable choice, but Punishers, Demolishers, and Executioners have theirs uses. Vanquishers, Exterminators, and Eradicators have issues that go deeper than points cost so I don't take them. Although it's hard to get, the FW conqueror is very good.

When taking tanks, my go to list is a Catachan Emperor's Fist Spearhead Detachment, led by a Tank Commander, armed with a relic battle Cannon, and 3 Conquerors. If I need more Command points I may convert the spearhead to a battalion.

First off magnetize the tanks you buy. It's very easy and this way you can swap around what you run when you feel like it. My only regret is the LRBT I have from when I was younger are glued in place and thus limit me from running those 3 in any configuration.

1. The standard battle cannon is the best all around gun
2. The punisher gatling cannon is amazing but it mainly suffers from having to get up close and personal
3. The executioner is absolutely amazing..... Unless your opponent has -1 hit modifiers to throw around so it is every situational.

Front line gaming has an article by the owner who just won a GT running some tank commanders so i would give it a read as he runs them as tallarhn so they can pop in and out of cover as the LRBT has no invul save and despite being a tough tank can die very easily as most people have firepower to drop knights

For myself, I enjoy playing Russes. My meta is Knight heavy, and Castellans can usually destroy / last bracket two Russ in a turn. My effectiveness slides from one-and-done, to a game of substantial firepower.

It is my experience that Knights are a better value. More Mobile, Invul vs Shooting and impressive CC ability. That’s just a competitive analysis... LR are still good units. But... if you’re buying new kits, it would be worth looking a price - both points and cash - before purchasing.

The heavy support Leman Russ Battle Tank is of pretty low value. If you want to run tanks, skip on Pask, and be Catachan. The re-rolled shot output will be worth it's weight, otherwise your tanks will be pretty crap.


However, for 20 points, you can upgrade your tank to a tank commander, allowing it to A: fill an HQ slot, B: 3+BS, and C: buff itself with re-roll 1's or Strike and Shroud. Do this; Tank Commanders are pretty good.

3 Tank commanders is a pretty standard entry for lots of competitive lists. Extremely OP.

 Xenomancers wrote:
3 Tank commanders is a pretty standard entry for lots of competitive lists. Extremely OP.

If that's your definition of extremely op, it suddenly makes sense why everything is crazy bonkers broken to you. There's so much out there stronger and more op then that, that really, they fall down the line to "Pretty Good" or just "Strong"

Honestly, what do you consider the baseljne, here, because that would help understand your point of view tremendously?

Pleasestop wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
3 Tank commanders is a pretty standard entry for lots of competitive lists. Extremely OP.

If that's your definition of extremely op, it suddenly makes sense why everything is crazy bonkers broken to you. There's so much out there stronger and more op then that, that really, they fall down the line to "Pretty Good" or just "Strong"

Honestly, what do you consider the baseljne, here, because that would help understand your point of view tremendously?

Predators.

Predators, and Vindicators, are very sad. They suffer from the fact that Marines were the first codex launched [*Oh no!*], and were written before the sadness that was index tanks could be observed. Leman Russes were the first tanks to get the ability to fire twice as a reaction to the fact that GW was apparently afraid to make tank guns tank guns when drafting the rules, which has been carried on to the other main battle tanks [Fire Prism, Battlewagon].

And unfortunately, they will probably remain sad, because there are no less than 5 marine codecies that use them [*Oh no!*], so it's really hard to meaningfully change their stats.

I'd argue that commanders are pretty busted using base Russ as a baseline. Which is already better than every marine vehicle.

Martel732 wrote:
I'd argue that commanders are pretty busted using base Russ as a baseline. Which is already better than every marine vehicle.

Who gives a **** about marine vehicles.

The Predators is the way it is because you got the first codex of the edition; and GW probably wrote it before the edition even opened. Observe the fact that when the edition hit, before Grinding Advance, Pulsed Laser Discharge, Weapons Beast, and Periscope, tanks were completely godawful.

The Predator should not be your standard of tank performance, it and the rest of the marine vehicles are the inheritors of the still-unresolved problems with tanks and their guns, and will probably never be fixed because there are 5 different books with the Predator datasheet in it. Part of me feels bad, because I like predators and vindicators, part of me feels vindictive.

I didn't say that it was.

Martel732 wrote:
I didn't say that it was.

You specified Marine vehicles, which is functionally identical to specifying Predator, since the Predator and Leman Russ are in the same cost and performance class and highly comparable.

I even said "using base Russ as a baseline".

 Chris521 wrote:
Russes are in sort of a funny spot right now, since their internal balance is all over the place.

Most people elect to take Tank Commanders since they are only a little more expensive for much better firepower. Pask is ok, and maybe an auto include if your running Cadian tanks, however, he is pretty much the biggest bullet magnet in the codex so a lot of people just give him a battle cannon to let him shoot from safer positions.

In general the battle cannon is the most reliable choice, but Punishers, Demolishers, and Executioners have theirs uses. Vanquishers, Exterminators, and Eradicators have issues that go deeper than points cost so I don't take them. Although it's hard to get, the FW conqueror is very good.

When taking tanks, my go to list is a Catachan Emperor's Fist Spearhead Detachment, led by a Tank Commander, armed with a relic battle Cannon, and 3 Conquerors. If I need more Command points I may convert the spearhead to a battalion.

This is pretty much it. The basic LRBT is a very solid tank, but not really OP. It has reasonable durability, great fire power, and low cost. However, virtually every anti-tank measure is effective against it. It's only a 3+ save, so it can't shrug off even krak missiles reliably. It's easy to tie up in combat to prevent from firing. And even one degrade line really cuts into it's efficacy.

I run LRBTs, but as somebody noted, Knights are simply strongly superior.

Tank commanders are a fantastic unit, for while they are no more durable than a basic russ, their firepower is excellent.

Pleasestop wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
3 Tank commanders is a pretty standard entry for lots of competitive lists. Extremely OP.

If that's your definition of extremely op, it suddenly makes sense why everything is crazy bonkers broken to you. There's so much out there stronger and more op then that, that really, they fall down the line to "Pretty Good" or just "Strong"

Honestly, what do you consider the baseljne, here, because that would help understand your point of view tremendously?

Uhhh no. Take a look at a rapid fire battle cannon. A main titan weapon that costs about 100 points.
It's literally just a russ command battle cannon that isn't rerolling 1's or number of shots. Or in other words - it's way better than the rapid fire battle cannon. Russes also just sit in the back on a 2+ save too so are actually just as durable as knights except when being shot at by Castellans (which are about 150 points undercosted for what they do). Plus 0 CP required to function.

No, that's not true. Lascannons are still a thing.

Martel732 wrote:
No, that's not true. Lascannons are still a thing.

You get a 5+ against a LC in cover - that's all a knight is gonna get unless you rotate....which only a single knight can do.

And the ion bulwark. Or both. For the first two turns, you are shooting through a 3++ on a Castellan. Get real.

The game is doomed - people can't even agree command tanks are OP. LOL.

They're more symptomatic than anything else.

Martel732 wrote:
And the ion bulwark. Or both. For the first two turns, you are shooting through a 3++ on a Castellan. Get real.

If you compare anything to a Castellan - it sucks. Barebones it should be 700-750 points and with it's relics and warlord trait easily a 800+ point titan.

 Xenomancers wrote:
The game is doomed - people can't even agree command tanks are OP. LOL.

I would rather face command tanks than another Knight.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Pleasestop wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
3 Tank commanders is a pretty standard entry for lots of competitive lists. Extremely OP.

If that's your definition of extremely op, it suddenly makes sense why everything is crazy bonkers broken to you. There's so much out there stronger and more op then that, that really, they fall down the line to "Pretty Good" or just "Strong"

Honestly, what do you consider the baseljne, here, because that would help understand your point of view tremendously?

Uhhh no. Take a look at a rapid fire battle cannon. A main titan weapon that costs about 100 points.
It's literally just a russ command battle cannon that isn't rerolling 1's or number of shots. Or in other words - it's way better than the rapid fire battle cannon. Russes also just sit in the back on a 2+ save too so are actually just as durable as knights except when being shot at by Castellans (which are about 150 points undercosted for what they do). Plus 0 CP required to function.

Uh... Russes have a 3+ save, and like, want to move? If your just going to leave them sitting there, you'd be better off with basilisks.

They also lack any sort of invuln, so like, meltas shred them and so do plasmas? And 8n the, we have to kill a Castellan in one turn to have any chance meta, killing two russes At w12 and no invuln a turn is easily doable.

They aren't bad units, they are "good", but in no way are the "insanely op." Otherwise they'd be what people were allying in instead of knights or castellans, especially since a supreme command is so easy to slot in!

So I ask again, what's your baseline?

No one is using melta unless they are impaired, but plasma is definitely a thing.

OMG A BANEBLADE CANNON COSTS ZERO POINTS SO ITS THE MOST BROKEN.

Martel732 wrote:
No one is using melta unless they are impaired, but plasma is definitely a thing.

Agreed? I mean, sisters still use it, but that's not really disproving your point. Prior to their nerf, they were fast enough and deadly enough with it to justify it's cost and limits. After the nerf, well they use it because to not use it means no antitank.

I mean, meltas still wreck leman Russes and light transports, though. Not having an invuln save means you can do a lot of damage pretty easily with a squad of meltas, and a Russ can't even get a 6+ vs you without psychic or cover.

I'm super boned vs Russes and Baneblades because I've given up on AP in general. But i can't throw away the points on AP when the majority of foes lack armor or have invulns.

Thanks for all the info guys. I didn't expect it turn into bickering. But like I said, I like Russ's in general, I don't mind that they aren't as good as other units available. I am not a huge fan of knights(appearence wise) so its not really an option.

If I remember rightly, in regards to the turrets can't you simply remove the turrets and replace without having to glue? I know thats true for vanquisher and battle cannon but not sure about the other. Also it appears sponsons are a no go because of the extra points and how vunerable Lemans are?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The tank commander is a great tip also!

 Alphabet wrote:
Thanks for all the info guys. I didn't expect it turn into bickering. But like I said, I like Russ's in general, I don't mind that they aren't as good as other units available. I am not a huge fan of knights(appearence wise) so its not really an option.

If I remember rightly, in regards to the turrets can't you simply remove the turrets and replace without having to glue? I know thats true for vanquisher and battle cannon but not sure about the other. Also it appears sponsons are a no go because of the extra points and how vunerable Lemans are?

Everything turns to bickering on Dakka

Sponsons are viable on Tank Commanders, many good players like the triple heavy bolter layout. Check out Scott Horas' list for an example... https://www.40kstats.com/bggc2

He uses 4 tank commanders (well, 3 + pask) as the main firepower in his army, and has at least 2 first place GT wins this year so far.

 Horst wrote:

 Alphabet wrote:
Thanks for all the info guys. I didn't expect it turn into bickering. But like I said, I like Russ's in general, I don't mind that they aren't as good as other units available. I am not a huge fan of knights(appearence wise) so its not really an option.

If I remember rightly, in regards to the turrets can't you simply remove the turrets and replace without having to glue? I know thats true for vanquisher and battle cannon but not sure about the other. Also it appears sponsons are a no go because of the extra points and how vunerable Lemans are?

Everything turns to bickering on Dakka

Sponsons are viable on Tank Commanders, many good players like the triple heavy bolter layout. Check out Scott Horas' list for an example... https://www.40kstats.com/bggc2

He uses 4 tank commanders (well, 3 + pask) as the main firepower in his army, and has at least 2 first place GT wins this year so far.

Yes good point!

Thanks for that list! I will probably go for 3 Lemans myself. I was tempted to run pask but not so much anymore. A lot has changed regarding command squads etc, going to have to play around with that. I built myself a 5 man command squad up thinking it was still the norm, but turns out a command squad is an unneccessary add on! Nevermind, I like the idea of a command squad and banner etc, so will begrdugingly fit it in.