Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

To be clear, I already own the Jovian Chronicles rules from DP9 - the original supplements for Mekton and the two editions of the Silhouette-based RPG rules. I also know about Lightning Strike and the current Jovian Wars range that's being Kickstarted. However, none of them are what I want.

I recently found my Jovian Chronicles miniatures - the 1:500, roughly inch-high individual exo-armour and fighter miniatures - and I'd quite like a game of the same level of complexity as X-Wing, battlefleet Gothic, that sort of thing. Half a dozen miniatures per side, some status tracking, but not the full A4-sized record sheets, ammo-counting and vector movement plotting of the original JC game. Is there such a set of rules out there? Preferably something generic so I've got a framework for doing my own stats.

At the moment I'm leaning towards Full Thrust, but I'd need to ditch the pre-plotted movement for some sort of alternate or random activation system.

For ground based warfare, Mech Attack is a good game. It's like an Xwing complexity-level version of Battletech. Each mech (or vehicle) can be tracked with a single card each. Fun little damage system, too, where different weapons do different shaped attacks that eat down through armor.

You might be able to use Star Eagles for what you are looking for in space-based mecha combat, though. It's by Ganesha games and uses the Song of Blades and Heroes game engine but for space warfare. You build your own units, so is not tied to any specific miniatures. Course plotting is much like X-wing.

Why not just use xwing via conversion?

Because I’m lazy and don’t want to come up with all the stats and special abilities myself. I was hoping there’s already a game with the structure behind it I can work with.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Because I’m lazy and don’t want to come up with all the stats and special abilities myself. I was hoping there’s already a game with the structure behind it I can work with.

I'm lazy too and considered doing something similar with Robotech a few years back. Basically just use the stats as written with a few basic game wide changes (like mechs gain all speed 1 and 0 moves at the cost of losing all their fastest speed band moves). For example, you just call the Wyvern an x-wing and apply the basic rules to it and just apply the add ons with the same name changes. It's not perfect but it works and is lazy.

Hmm; possibly. That's getting to the point where my laziness butts up against my desire to get it "right".

For example, exo-armours (mecha) should have wider firing arcs than traditional fighters. And I'd want to ditch the profusion of upgrade cards that are a core part of X-Wing. Wings of Glory might be a better place for me to start.

There is an old game called MECHA! by Seventh Street Games (its a dead company now).

It seems to me that it's exactly what you want. Generic, half a dozen models per side, anime action inspired, fast and simple but not simplistic.

It doesn't have nice art but you need rules not art.

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/8131/mecha
https://www.nobleknight.com/P/-993443543/Mecha

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Hmm; possibly. That's getting to the point where my laziness butts up against my desire to get it "right".

For example, exo-armours (mecha) should have wider firing arcs than traditional fighters. And I'd want to ditch the profusion of upgrade cards that are a core part of X-Wing. Wings of Glory might be a better place for me to start.

Well... there are "turret" upgrade cards iirc that you can apply standard to all exos that give a wider firing arc for a set amount of points. But.. as you said... you're butting up against your multiple self determined rules. If use a card for a turret to get the wider arc then you're contributing to proliferation of upgrade cards. If you don't and you make a special rule and have to change the points or apply a second special rule to negate the added utility of the first if you're keeping the points the same, you're crossing the lazy line as it's even more effort. There is no perfect solution unfortunately.

the idea of using xwing sound fine as an idea, but the more you get into it the more it will show it is not really a good idea.

You not only have to figure which fighter use to represent each exo, you will also have to figure which upgrade to use for each weapon system, also which upgrade tp add to each different JC exo or fighter, also it may end very unbalanced to the point of unfun.

You will be better getting some of the many available mecha combat games out there, some are even free, just take some time to find them.

http://mobileframezero.com/mfz/
https://donkusgaming.wordpress.com/category/mobile-suit-gundam-skirmish-2/
https://www.gunplatabletopbattle.net/core-rules

you may need to change the scale of the game in some of these but it is a lot easier to say one inch equals one centimeter than making xwing a Jovian Chronicles game.

You can also use the current Heavy Gear rules (are a lot simpler than the classic 2ed RPG rules) and use it for JC using the exact stats of the HG gears, just a little simpler because there is less terrain factors involved.

Edit: But Heavy Gear may be a bit more complex than needed if you just want a simple slug fest in space.

If I were going to do X-Wing it's be a full conversion - not just " a Pathfinder is an X-Wing, a Wyvern is a TIE Bomber". I'd ditch most of the upgrade options anyway; they're nothing but information overload for me as it is (the last few times I played X-Wing it was with flight groups of two or three identical "stock" fighters per player).

I'll take a look at those suggested rules, cheers. Mobile Frame Zero looks like it's what I want (other than the rule about removing destroyed systems )

A quick question, what do you think are the key 'must have" items for this type of game?

Good question. The sort of games which spring to mind are:

Full Thrust (using the Fleet Book rules), but replacing the order-writing and simultaneous movement with some sort of alternate or random (e.g. chit-drawing) activation sequence
Adeptus Titanicus, but with a more streamlined damage system; possibly fewer hit locations and without the damage-soaking structural damage mechanic - hits would go straight to "criticals" in AT terms.
Wings of Glory. I choose this as an example over X-Wing as I want the focus to be on the performance of the mechs/fighters rather than on layering on a dozen varied upgrade cards and special pilot abilities. It would mean having to design a load of movement decks, though.

What I'm looking for in this instance are:

having 5 - 10 models per side (or having 2 -5 players with 2 or 3 models each).
low record-keeping. I'm happy with playing-card-sized reference cards, but not the full A4-sized sheets of Battletech or the original Jovian Chronicles rules. Also, I'd want to track three or four "locations" with two or three states each. Say, hull, movement and one or two weapons each of which is OK, damaged or destroyed.
Movement which gives at least "lip service" to being in space - tracking speed from turn to turn would do. Mecha should be slow but agile, fighters fast but unable to spin as quickly.
as a small-scale space combat game, I'm not envisaging much in the way of scenery - a single asteroid might be a large feature, with perhaps non-combatant drone craft as smaller obstacles / cover.
Rules which include a system for designing my own units. I could use the core X-Wing mechanics, for example, but designing the ship cards and movement dials is quite a fiddly task. Full Thrust says its a game of capital ship combat, but I used it (before X-Wing was released) to do Star Wars fighter combat pretty well.

Not sure if you want detailed mecha/fighter combat or captial ship engagement with mecha/fighters included.

If it is the latter you want to convert the ships, mecha and fighters to FFG's Star Wars Armada. It works for fleet level games as the fighter and mecha will be in groups/squads rather than individual and all the record keeping it very easy to do. You do, to a degree, run into the "card" issue that happens in X-Wing but you can limit or eliminate that aspect if you really want to in Armada.

So you want to combine capital ships with the Jovian mecha that would be the route I would take. the downside is no detailed positioning of mecha as a stand. However you can simulate mecha being more agile by having the mecha have access to a defense token that can halve damage or negate all damage from one attack. Fighters would not have access to this but can move farther/faster than mecha.

I still say try a look at the PDF of Star Eagles from Ganesha Games (its at Wargame Vault). Its the Song of Blades and Heroes engine but for space combat not fantasy skirmishing.

X-wing and wings of war style movement, but with a different way of building movement segments. Instead of swooping arcs, you string together smaller segments. Still can do things like side-slips and Immelmans.

Activations are tied to rolling 1-3 dice, and those are your activations for the model. Two failures on any figure's dice roll turns initiative over to the opponent.

Two stats to track (Quality governs what is a success on activation rolls, combat value is rolled for hits and defense). Skills add flavor to the units. Can build all units from scratch.

Forces are about the size you are looking for as stated above, and usually a playing card can keep all their stats.

I have both the Fantasy Skirmish rules and an adaptation of them for wooden Sailing Ships (which could also be used for Victorian flying battleships or fantasy stuff with an expansion), and I really like the core game engine and how it does activations, making them neither alternating or IGoUGo, but something else entirely.

I admit it's been quite a while since I last looked at my Lightning Strike rules. But really, what you're describing sounds to me suspiciously like that game with WoG-style movement.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I still say try a look at the PDF of Star Eagles from Ganesha Games (its at Wargame Vault). Its the Song of Blades and Heroes engine but for space combat not fantasy skirmishing.

X-wing and wings of war style movement, but with a different way of building movement segments. Instead of swooping arcs, you string together smaller segments. Still can do things like side-slips and Immelmans.

Activations are tied to rolling 1-3 dice, and those are your activations for the model. Two failures on any figure's dice roll turns initiative over to the opponent.

Two stats to track (Quality governs what is a success on activation rolls, combat value is rolled for hits and defense). Skills add flavor to the units. Can build all units from scratch.

Forces are about the size you are looking for as stated above, and usually a playing card can keep all their stats.

I have both the Fantasy Skirmish rules and an adaptation of them for wooden Sailing Ships (which could also be used for Victorian flying battleships or fantasy stuff with an expansion), and I really like the core game engine and how it does activations, making them neither alternating or IGoUGo, but something else entirely.

I like the idea behind the rules, but find the two stat supplemented by a ton of special rules to be.... unsatisfying.

I second Lightning Strikes, but am unsure if their is something newer and better out there. It might have a bit too much crunch still.

Lightning Strike is a fleet-level game; I want X-Wing, not Armada.

Unless you mean use the LS engine and tweak it so that a single exo behaves like a single ship in that game? I did that once with a set of Star Wars fighter stats for Full Thrust.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Lightning Strike is a fleet-level game; I want X-Wing, not Armada.

Unless you mean use the LS engine and tweak it so that a single exo behaves like a single ship in that game? I did that once with a set of Star Wars fighter stats for Full Thrust.

Lightning Strike should not be compared with Armada. Unlike Armada (and apparently Jovian Wars, based on the images that DP9 is showing), exos and fighters in Lightning Strike are managed on an individual basis, and the game is quite capable of being played with nothing but those smaller units. In fact, the "learn to play" scenario in the rule book is a single Jovian Pathfinder against a single CEGA Syreen. Additionally, the smaller craft do pose a serious threat to starships. Unlike in Star Wars, where fighters would need volleys of proton torpedoes to hurt a ship, a single Pathfinder exo is quite capable of gutting a starship by taking its melee weapon (basically a plasma blowtorch) and flying alongside the ship from bow to stern.

(I thought I had a PDF of the LS rules, but apparently not)

I'll take a look if the rules are on DrivethruRPG. Looking at the datacards I've got, I appear to be mistaken; thanks for correcting me.