Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Question in the thread title. What does Perturabo look like now that he's a daemon prince?

Facisminthe41m wrote:
Question in the thread title. What does Perturabo look like now that he's a daemon prince?

I don't think there's much if any info on this.

Fun fact, current GW lore suggests that Be'Lakor is the only undivided Daemon Prince. He gave the gods so much crap they decided never to do it again. At the same time, they've never confirmed which God turned Pert (or Lorgar) into a Daemon Prince. So they're in this weird lore situation until something changes.

While not stated, nurgle seems like the most likely patron for Perturabo, from a machine virus point of view. Plus he's the only God I recall the lore stating him having direct dealings with

No art work in DP form that I've ever seen. A massive obliterator is how I'd picture him.

 JamesY wrote:
While not stated, nurgle seems like the most likely patron for Perturabo, from a machine virus point of view. Plus he's the only God I recall the lore stating him having direct dealings with

No art work in DP form that I've ever seen.

Yeah, he's less problematic than Lorgar. Lorgar surely has to be undivided, it just requires GW to do a little retcon.

It does somewhat weaken Abaddon's position though - turning down Daemonhood due to wanting to keep his own independence. Be'Lekor is pretty damn independent, and that was the problem! If Lorgar gets it too, there's no good reason Abaddon couldn't.

I could see Lorgar being Slaanish. another thing is that they could keep Belkor as unique by having the other deamon primarius by bi-god instead of quad god. so Perty is a deamon prince shared between Nurgle and Khorne, just for example.

Machine Virus Iron Warriors would be an incredible development!

 Stux wrote:

 JamesY wrote:
While not stated, nurgle seems like the most likely patron for Perturabo, from a machine virus point of view. Plus he's the only God I recall the lore stating him having direct dealings with

No art work in DP form that I've ever seen.

Yeah, he's less problematic than Lorgar. Lorgar surely has to be undivided, it just requires GW to do a little retcon.

It does somewhat weaken Abaddon's position though - turning down Daemonhood due to wanting to keep his own independence. Be'Lekor is pretty damn independent, and that was the problem! If Lorgar gets it too, there's no good reason Abaddon couldn't.

But Bel'Akor is not independent, hes actually cursed to ... no wait. I think that was in Fantasy. I don't know his 40k lore.

I kinda wish that they had kept Perturabo mortal. It always kinda bothered me that the traitor primarchs either died or became demon princes. Given that's he is one of the both the least wrote about primarchs and there really isn't anything in his background that screams joining any or all of the particular gods it would have made him unique to be alive and non demon.

Ok so We have one example of Belakor being the only undivided DP, but since we have a couple of other examples of non aligned DP it does not seem to be true in univerese, which is fine, I bring this up as perty and lorgar are both undivided.

I think we have already been told how this happens to be honest.

Lorgar created the ruinstorm, focused its power and directed it at Agnron, turning him into a Deamon primarch, Khonre had already got dibs on Angrons soul though, but ultimately it was Lorgar that made Angron a deamon primarch, not the gods, the power was gathered, focused and directed by Logar, not Khorne a good example of this is an age old meme, Guard holds the enemy back for decades and marines sweep in at the end and take the credit, Khorne is the marines in this analogy, this leads me to believe that Lorgar made himself a Deamon Primarch.

As for perty, he meets the "god" of weapons (or something like that), this "god" did not want to return to the warp as it would likely be absorbed into Khorne (weapons=war), it is possible that it was this entity that made Perterabo a Deamon Primarch.

Gonna be interesting to find out though

BrianDavion wrote:
I could see Lorgar being Slaanish. another thing is that they could keep Belkor as unique by having the other deamon primarius by bi-god instead of quad god. so Perty is a deamon prince shared between Nurgle and Khorne, just for example.

I believe in the First Heretic novel its a Slaanesh demon that talks to Lorgar and accompanies the first Word Bearers into the Eye of Terror where they first meet 'chaos'.

I don't see any reason he couldn't just be a giant Obliterator/Mutilator, honestly. It's not like the Cult of Destruction needed to be possessed or exalted by a specific god to become Daemons.

Or have daemonforged himself into an immortal hell-bot.

 JamesY wrote:
While not stated, nurgle seems like the most likely patron for Perturabo...

originally, the Iron Warriors were a Slaaneshi Chapter. It's a tricky one to work in, but something about seeking perfection in the art of destruction could work. It needn't affect the rest of the Legion; just Perturabo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stux wrote:

It does somewhat weaken Abaddon's position though - turning down Daemonhood due to wanting to keep his own independence. Be'Lekor is pretty damn independent, and that was the problem! If Lorgar gets it too, there's no good reason Abaddon couldn't.

Be'Lakor might be independent from the direct control of the gods, but he's still constrained in his interaction with the real universe, by dint of his being a daemon. That's what Abaddon is trying to avoid.

Is it definitively stated that Lorgar and Perturabo are Daemon Primarchs? Maybe they're both just in a similar situation to Abaddon.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Stux wrote:

It does somewhat weaken Abaddon's position though - turning down Daemonhood due to wanting to keep his own independence. Be'Lekor is pretty damn independent, and that was the problem! If Lorgar gets it too, there's no good reason Abaddon couldn't.

Be'Lakor might be independent from the direct control of the gods, but he's still constrained in his interaction with the real universe, by dint of his being a daemon. That's what Abaddon is trying to avoid.

It's a bit of a grey area at best to be honest, as there is admittedly very little on Be'Lakor in 40k lore. Personally, I think Abaddon's situation is that he's a Mary Sue and has to be unique and awesome because that is essentially his entire character, even when it doesn't quite fit with the lore!

 Ginjitzu wrote:
Is it definitively stated that Lorgar and Perturabo are Daemon Primarchs? Maybe they're both just in a similar situation to Abaddon.

yes it's been said multiple times. in fact it'd cheapen Lorgar's character arc if he never became a deamon Prince.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Ginjitzu wrote:
Is it definitively stated that Lorgar and Perturabo are Daemon Primarchs? Maybe they're both just in a similar situation to Abaddon.

yes it's been said multiple times. in fact it'd cheapen Lorgar's character arc if he never became a deamon Prince.

I'm not doubting it. It's just that I've never actually read it in print myself. If there is a moratorium on Undivided princes, I imagine Primarchs are special enough to violate it. Lorgar is probably the single most knowledgeable authority on the nature of the dark gods in the galaxy and may well have been able to convince them, that he was worthy of the combined gifts of all of them, and with Perturabo's instinctive understanding of mechanisms of all kinds, perhaps he found a way to "engineer" the power of a daemon prince for himself without submitting to any of the Four.

 Ginjitzu wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Ginjitzu wrote:
Is it definitively stated that Lorgar and Perturabo are Daemon Primarchs? Maybe they're both just in a similar situation to Abaddon.

yes it's been said multiple times. in fact it'd cheapen Lorgar's character arc if he never became a deamon Prince.

I'm not doubting it. It's just that I've never actually read it in print myself. If there is a moratorium on Undivided princes, I imagine Primarchs are special enough to violate it. Lorgar is probably the single most knowledgeable authority on the nature of the dark gods in the galaxy and may well have been able to convince them, that he was worthy of the combined gifts of all of them, and with Perturabo's instinctive understanding of mechanisms of all kinds, perhaps he found a way to "engineer" the power of a daemon prince for himself without submitting to any of the Four.

Your right, we have a single example of belakor being the only example of the only undivided deamon prince but a couple more examples of undivided deamon princes, so it's quite likely that him being the only one is just wrong OR he is the only undivided deamon prince created by the 4.

Lorgar can quite clearly make himself a prince since he has made angron one, just repeat the steps of the ruinstorm and focus it on himself.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Ginjitzu wrote:
Is it definitively stated that Lorgar and Perturabo are Daemon Primarchs? Maybe they're both just in a similar situation to Abaddon.

yes it's been said multiple times. in fact it'd cheapen Lorgar's character arc if he never became a deamon Prince.

I don't think it would weaken the character. It would certainly amplify the tragedy of the character : he was the first to convert to Chaos, the one to corrupt the other and to bring them to the Gods. But then he gets rebuked by the Gods (incarnated into horus' physical shell) just like the Emperor rebuked him on Monarchia. He, hwo considered himself the apostle and bringer of Faith into the Gods would be the only one to not only be denied daemonic princedom but also the one to be disgraced by the beings he worships.

In response to the original question, GW never released a definitive image of Daemon Prince Perturabo.

There's plenty of images of him looking all 'warped out,' like in the one at the top of this page:

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Perturabo

Regarding Lorgar ascending into Daemonhood, the only thing I have ever read about his fate post-heresy is that he's meditating in a tower on a Daemon world. Nothing about becoming something else.

Regarding Perturabo's ascention... I get that there are no Undivided Daemon Princes in-game anymore (besides Be'Lakor). Is that really supposed to mean there are no Undivided Daemon Princes in the universe at all anymore?

One of the more interesting things about Perturabo was the fact his loyalty wasn't really to any one power, he's just this spiteful bastard who doesn't feel he gets enough glory. I can't see him out there proclaiming the glory of some other power, he's always been about himself and the Iron Warriors.

Historically, the Iron Warriors were never much one for particular gods, the slight leaning was to Khorne if anything (according to the old Chapter Approved books from 3E) but Chaos was always a power to be bargained with, not worshipped. The few Berzerkers among the ranks of the IW's were seen as valuable, but ultimately lost beyond redemption and expendable.


I don't really see Perturabo devoting himself to any one god, or even necessarily seeking Daemonhood in the same way as some of the other Primarchs. I could totally see an Obliterator like Cult od Destruction type thing however. I wish there was less emphasis on everything having to be devoted to one of the four, stuff like independent Raptor Cults and Cults of Destruction have their own unique appeal and fit a lot of stuff better.

 Stux wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Stux wrote:

It does somewhat weaken Abaddon's position though - turning down Daemonhood due to wanting to keep his own independence. Be'Lekor is pretty damn independent, and that was the problem! If Lorgar gets it too, there's no good reason Abaddon couldn't.

Be'Lakor might be independent from the direct control of the gods, but he's still constrained in his interaction with the real universe, by dint of his being a daemon. That's what Abaddon is trying to avoid.

It's a bit of a grey area at best to be honest, as there is admittedly very little on Be'Lakor in 40k lore. Personally, I think Abaddon's situation is that he's a Mary Sue and has to be unique and awesome because that is essentially his entire character, even when it doesn't quite fit with the lore!

I always got the impression that Be'lakor only has the illusion of free will/independence, but in reality is always under the sway of one of the big 4, albeit indirectly.
For example, if Be'lakor even "goes against" the will of a particular god, it's because he's acting according to the will of that god's opposite (Khorne v Slaanesh, Nurgle v Tzeentch)

And that was the reason the big 4 agreed to never combine their powers again. He's just a pawn in the great game's tug-of-war.

But that doesn't have to contradict Lorgar or Perty being "undivided". Lorgar turned to Chaos because da Emprah didn't want to be worshipped by him. But Lorgar gotta worship something. Lorgar may have tapped into Chaos as a whole to transcend. So while big 4 may not have directly contributed their power, Lorgar has it nonetheless from each of them.

I'd be really interested in reading/hearing a conversation between Lorgar, Be'lakor and Abaddon.

-

cant believe i totally missed this point but yeah Galef, you reminded me of something.

The Gods are made up of the warp, they cannot exist without it, the warp though exists without the gods, the warp will go on without them.

So the warp is a source of massive energy, the gods are not even needed to create deamons at all, deamons are created by mortal acts all the time, so Lorgar already having the knowledge to create a deamon primarch does not even NEED the gods to make himself one, I am sure now that Lorgar just made himself a deamon primarch.

Maybe the new Chaos Knight kit will have a Perturbo upgrade option like Canis Rex?

He’s basically a Demon-Knight-Primarch. Totally wild speculation !

Maybe Peterabo has attained a state where he has become a daemon but is not actually a daemon prince. Like he gets so obliterator'd out on machine virus that he hits daemon status.

I believe that Peterabo and Lorgar are Daemon Princes of undivided. Be'lakor traditionally was the first mortal raised to Daemonhood, not the only undivided Daemon Prince. Undivided Daemon Princes were supposed to be rare though.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Historically, the Iron Warriors were never much one for particular gods, the slight leaning was to Khorne if anything (according to the old Chapter Approved books from 3E)

Which was only included because of a very prominent Khorne worshiping Iron Warrior and attendant Bezerkers in Storm of Iron, which incidentally also features a Warsmith ascending to Daemonhood as an Undivided Prince. IIRC, Iron Warriors being a Slaanesh group stems from the Rogue Trader Realm of Chaos books.

There's plenty of Undivided Princes in Black Library fiction and older fluff.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Historically, the Iron Warriors were never much one for particular gods, the slight leaning was to Khorne if anything (according to the old Chapter Approved books from 3E)

Which was only included because of a very prominent Khorne worshiping Iron Warrior and attendant Bezerkers in Storm of Iron, which incidentally also features a Warsmith ascending to Daemonhood as an Undivided Prince. IIRC, Iron Warriors being a Slaanesh group stems from the Rogue Trader Realm of Chaos books.

There's plenty of Undivided Princes in Black Library fiction and older fluff.

I always felt like the Warsmith in Storm of Iron was a Champion/Daemon Prince of Tzeentch, given how his powers and influence on others were described, even though it is not specified.

 greatbigtree wrote:
Maybe the new Chaos Knight kit will have a Perturbo upgrade option like Canis Rex?

He’s basically a Demon-Knight-Primarch. Totally wild speculation !

This! I want this!

That would be awesome, Demon-Knight-Primarch would be outstanding. It could fit the Lore perfectly, but would not be feasible on the tabletop considering how OP the Knights already are.
but if that happened, I would start a chaos army immediately.