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Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





Ohio

What, if any of the FW options for knights would you guys consider decent or better at competitive play?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/08 15:42:35


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Well kinda, but it depends on the game you’re playing. ITC is pretty hard on Pure Knights right now, but I think you will continue to see them souped on the table.

The Porphyrion, Cerastus Lancer, and Cerastus Atrapos are all great when your opponent brings the stuff they want to kill. They lose out against forces that don’t bring those targets. It makes them a hard sell.

The more general use ones are the Mageara, Styrix, Archon. Each of these is a much more generalist machine. Always take the Siege claw upgrade on the Styrix and Mageara. In general the Styrix is a better regarded machine than the Mageara, that for unknown reasons cost 25 points more. I consider the Mageara and Styrix to have a particular niche against Tyranids. They really do not like the Twin Rad Cleanser, and that they don’t get cover against these two.

Possibly the real call out is the Archon though. Fast, Massive flamer, tough. It is the real deal. I recommend it.

And last is the Castigator. It’s hard to recommend it. Its single gun seems to lose when compared to the archon. Good model though, and I’m sure some people use it well. It’s much cheaper also.

It is also worth noting you can’t field a FW Knight with the Exalted Court/Heirlooms of the Noble House stratagems. If you want them to have an upgrade, they have to be your warlord. That makes them a little more tricky to field.
   
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Ohio

Very well stated. I'll take that into consideration. That's really unfortunate what you said about the Castigator. As that's the one I landed on a few months ago, I intended on finishing it to try it in a couple weeks at a local ITC.

I have considered running a Porphryion as well. Once I have the funds for one.

Also, fwiw I run pure RK.
   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





The Eternity Gate

I think Reemule gave a good summary. The Porphyion, lancer, and atrapos also all do something the base codex knights don't. I recently played a pure knights list at a local tournament and my lancer reaped a heavy toll against enemy knights since it is so fast.

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I don't want to talk you off the Castigator. I think with use and practice you can make a real go of it. If I was to field it...

Considering its pro's and con's..

Its cheap. 430 is a good price. It only has 2 weapons but they are pretty good.

Finding the best way to capitalize one them... I think Blessed by the Sancrstans Warlord Trait to make the Castigator a Mortal wound causing machine, and Sactuary to allow it to save in HTH if you need to use the sword is going to be a good load out. Your going to want plenty of CP to run it to keep Rotating the Ion Shield, and maybe the advance and charge strat.

You should let us know how it does.

Th
   
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Holy Terra

They WERE before the 3++ nerf...

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Ishagu wrote:
They WERE before the 3++ nerf...

What are you talking about? That change effected like 2 out of the FW knights.

Never mind GW's wierdly wording of an FAQ answer got me confused.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/08 18:09:50


 
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





Holy Terra

Nah. I've faced Atrapos Knights with a 3++ plenty of times. Made them really tough.

One of my friends won the Throne of Skulls official GW event with a list including them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/08 17:59:46


-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





Ohio

According to this I can.
[Thumb - PSX_20190508_140004.jpg]

   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





Holy Terra

Yep it was never in question. Wonder why anyone thought you couldn't...?

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I didn't specifically check but I'm nearly certain that Renegades were included in the 4++ max nerf.

If your running it with Renegades (Sorry I missed it earlier) Its still pretty good. The reroll strat is world class. Better in many ways that Order of Companions.

You should just run your castigator with RIS when needed and run around blowing stuff up making them shoot it. Its going to do well.
   
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Norn Queen






Rotate Ion Shields got changed for both Loyalist and Renegade knights to be capped at 4++

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Ohio

Correct, that was just a screenshot from the index download. It hasn't been updated.
   
Made in us
Witch Hunter Undercover in a Cult







I've used an Acheron in tournaments before. The flamer and the explosion can both do a lot of work, and it tends to ensure that people don't shoot the 3/4ths of your list that's smaller than it is for a turn.

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Ohio

One thing I learned from playing pure Knights is people tend to go for the warlord even it it doesn't benefit them. I made my Gallant my warlord and it only saw combat once in 5 games. Even though the double avengers where clearly the bigger threat.
   
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I've seen lancers do terrible things more often than not.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Atlanta

I took an Atropos in a knight list and won. I’ll say this, the meta at this event wasn’t strong and my Atrapos didn’t really have any quality targets to shine against. I feel my list has improved with replacing him with a Gallant.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




I dropped a Crusader from my Triple Crusader list and replaced it with a Styrix. I do like this Knight. The Graviton Crusher isn't that wonderful, but the Twin Rad Cleanser is amazing.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





I run a castigator when I do run knights, and have found it pretty solid. of course any game where the knights are basically being fueled by a whole list's CP it'll perform like crazy.
   
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





Ohio

the_scotsman wrote:
I run a castigator when I do run knights, and have found it pretty solid. of course any game where the knights are basically being fueled by a whole list's CP it'll perform like crazy.

What do you find are the strong points of a Castigator? What do you try to accomplish, from tactical standpoint?

My current list is 2 Warglaives, 2 Helverins, 1 double avenger Questoris, 1 thermal/sword Questoris and a Castigator. I've only played one game so far with this list. I won, but my opponent focused on the Castigator and managed to deal 26 damage T1. Although I admittedly rolled terrible on saves.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Atlanta

I was looking at data sheet for the Castigator and it just seems like a better version of the Warden. For 24 extra points you get 3 more wounds, Wound regen, an arguably better melee weapon. You lose a flamer and a stubber which doesn’t seem that big of a deal. The only thing you really miss out on would be relic weapons like Endless Fury. Outside of the price to actually purchase a FW Knight, is there any reason to choose the warden?
   
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Crazy Jay wrote:
I was looking at data sheet for the Castigator and it just seems like a better version of the Warden. For 24 extra points you get 3 more wounds, Wound regen, an arguably better melee weapon. You lose a flamer and a stubber which doesn’t seem that big of a deal. The only thing you really miss out on would be relic weapons like Endless Fury. Outside of the price to actually purchase a FW Knight, is there any reason to choose the warden?


Carapace weapons. You may or may not actually want one, but the Warden has the option to choose where the Castigator doesn't. Also Exalted Court allows you to give a Warlord Trait to a Questoris or Dominus-class Knight, which doesn't include Cerastus-class Knights.

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Longtime Dakkanaut




I think if you give it exalted Court status, and give it blessed by the Sancristans, your now spewing Mortal wounds out of a Castigator is pretty fun.

If you can I think also giving it Sanctuary as a Heirloom is worth it. Now you have a save if you go HTH with some stuff.

The more I read this thread, the more I wish I owned a Castigator.
   
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Ohio

So, now that the Chaos Knights codex is officially a thing. Do you guys think I'll still have access to the FW knights? The thought crossed my mind that there might be a disconnect from the FW stuff because reasons.

As a result of the impending codex, I've decided to halt any further purchase of FW knights until further notice lol.
   
Made in ca
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Halifax, Nova Scotia

The FW Knights wouldn't be dealt with in the Chaos Knights Codex anyway.

You would need a FAQ/errata to Imperial Armour, Index: Forces of the Astra Militarum to add Chaos keywords to the Knights there, or something posted on the FW website to give them beta rules.

I wouldn't hold my breath for either. We're still waiting on Fires of Cyraxus, the Custodes/Talons book and Dark Mechanicum rules - so there's a bunch in queue for FW already.
   
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Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

FW has traitor questoris in the Index Chaos FW book.

They have the Dark Mechanicus keyword, allowing them to be repaired by a Chaos Hellwright.

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Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





 chimeara wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
I run a castigator when I do run knights, and have found it pretty solid. of course any game where the knights are basically being fueled by a whole list's CP it'll perform like crazy.

What do you find are the strong points of a Castigator? What do you try to accomplish, from tactical standpoint?

My current list is 2 Warglaives, 2 Helverins, 1 double avenger Questoris, 1 thermal/sword Questoris and a Castigator. I've only played one game so far with this list. I won, but my opponent focused on the Castigator and managed to deal 26 damage T1. Although I admittedly rolled terrible on saves.


I mean, bear in mind here the totality of the knights that I own are a castigator and two helverins. I run it when I want a knight in my army, alongside adeptus mechanicus or vostroyans typically (I also have deathwatch but find they synergize far less with what the knights do well)

I run it typically as House Raven to make maximum use out of Flank Speed, as my army's basic warlord so I get around the restriction of Exalted Court (at this point I don't consider any warlord traits in any of my other imperial armies to be anywhere near the power level of the IK traits/relics so I just ignore them. The Age of the Command Point Regenerators Is Over, The Age Of The Superheavy Traits and Relics Has Begun)

I typically run him with the Blessed by the Sacristans trait (used to be Ion Bulwark all day every day but for obvious reasons that's less useful now) as it makes his gun better at what I want to use him for which is basically a less brittle cawlbot bomb that then can be used in melee if he survives as the game goes on. As a relic I default to Armor of the Sainted Ion versus shooty foes, and Sanctuary if I think it's likely my opponent actually has the means to get to melee with him or I'm going to be playing him super aggressively early on.

Either he gets everything and the kitchen sink thrown at him and he goes down, and my Onagers/Leman Russes/Helverins/etc are free to blast away at the opposing army, or he gets ignored in favor of the rest of my army and you end up with a juggernaut 2+ save knight that can pretty much carve up any combination of light infantry, heavy infantry or vehicles in his way cleaning up turns 3-5.

I appreciate that he doesn't eat up my entire army's points and I appreciate that him and his two buddies are honestly pretty CP-independent in most games. You've got a couple REALLY good 1cp spends to give him like a 1+ save against an opposing army that would love him to be alpha struck down (Knight of the Cog+Shroudpsalm) or let him act like he's undamaged if the enemy does focus him and dice don't quite go their way. But because he's not really dependent on rotate ion to stay alive, and he doesn't really need order of companions to do his damage, they don't force me to bring like a minimum of a brigade to support them, which is nice.
   
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Ohio

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
FW has traitor questoris in the Index Chaos FW book.

They have the Dark Mechanicus keyword, allowing them to be repaired by a Chaos Hellwright.

They have QuestorTraitoris keyword, which is what allows the Hellwright to repair. He can repair anything with QuestorTraitoris, Dark Mechanicum, <Legion>, or Daemon Engine.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




I've started playing My Porphyrion more. It does pretty well. Way better than I suspected.

I make it the Warlord and give it the 4++,a nd give it Santuary so it has a 4++ in HTH. The big killer is of course the Twin Magna Lasers. But somehow it preforms better in on the table that the stats would indicate.

The BS 2+, and the huge size generally mean its going to have LOS to you, and its going to hit. Add in its defensive measures and the stratagems it has access to its pretty hard to kill.

Overall, its not the dog on the field I think people portrayed it to be.
   
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






Reemule wrote:
I've started playing My Porphyrion more. It does pretty well. Way better than I suspected.

I make it the Warlord and give it the 4++,a nd give it Santuary so it has a 4++ in HTH. The big killer is of course the Twin Magna Lasers. But somehow it preforms better in on the table that the stats would indicate.

The BS 2+, and the huge size generally mean its going to have LOS to you, and its going to hit. Add in its defensive measures and the stratagems it has access to its pretty hard to kill.

Overall, its not the dog on the field I think people portrayed it to be.


If you wanna go nuclear with it, take it as House Krast, and give it the First Knight warlord trait and the Headsman's Mark relic.... Now you re-roll all 1's to hit with it, and get +1 damage to 10 wound or more models, and +2 damage to titans. So you're hitting for 8 damage a shot against other Knights, hitting on a 2+ re-rolling misses. Ungodly powerful. I'm strongly considering buying one.
   
 
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