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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Battalion

HQ (2-3):

[30] Company Commander, Laspistol, Frag Grenades
[215] Knight Commander Pask, Punisher Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Track Guards
[46] Primaris Psyker, Force Stave

Troops (3-6):

[45] Infantry Squad, Vox Caster
[45] Infantry Squad, Vox Caster
[45] Infantry Squad, Vox Caster

Elites (0-6):

[24] Commissar
[39] Command Squad, Medi-pack, Vox Caster, Regimental Standard
[39] Command Squad, Medi-pack, Vox Caster, Platoon Standard

Fast Attack (0-3):

[50] Scout Sentinel, Lascannon

Heavy Support (0-3):

[33] Heavy Weapons Squad, Mortar
[147] Russ Exterminator, Heavy Bolter
[152] Leman Russ, Heavy Bolter

Transports:

[88] Chimera, x2 Flamers

Points: 998


Okay, so I thought I would be a bit less ambitious and put up a [1000]pt army in order to give me a more realistic goal to work toward and to get an army ready for the tabletop sooner. I've made adjustments from feedback from my earlier attempt at an army so hopefully there will be fewer schoolboy errors, but a few may have still got past me. If you think there is a way to make it more friendly for someone who is new to the game, that'd be great, but otherwise I built this to try and be as balanced as I could while still appealing to the tread-head within me.






This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2019/05/08 21:32:05


 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






Some of your costs are wrong, the Primaris Psyker is 46 points, the Scout Sentinel w/ Autocannon is 40 points, a mortar heavy weapons squad is 33 points. Make sure you're using Battlescribe to build your list, or if you're using just the codex + pencil and paper, you'll need to buy a copy of Chapter Approved to get the most up to date costs for units. Make sure you're paying the points cost for the wargear and the units, not just one or the other. If you don't have battlescribe, you can get it here: https://battlescribe.net/

I use Battlescribe all the time, but when looking to post a list for feedback like this I still type it out, because their export formats are bad.

As far as making changes, biggest ones I'd suggest would be to drop the Leman Russ Exterminator and take a second regular Leman Russ. The Exterminator is pretty meh.... it's not a very good tank. The regular ol' Leman Russ is quite strong though. They're better fielded as Tank Commanders, but with a single Battalion you're a bit full of HQ choices for that, and your HQ choices are pretty good so I'd leave them alone for now. If you wanna go full on tread-head that's totally fine, I'd probably suggest dropping the elite units you picked in favor of a Hellhound tank anyway.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Ah right, thanks for the pointers, and thanks for linking me to that tool, that looks like it'll be a real help. I don't have Chapter Approved, so I assume that's something I'm going to have to sort out, but I should be able to proceed with Battlescribe.


I'll update the army list ASAP

EDIT: I've done some minor points fixing to reflect updated information. I'll leave the unit choices the same for now, see what other suggestions come though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/08 20:33:31


 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






Youve still got some points issues, though this time I understand what's going on. In Battlescribe, when you check off an option like "vox caster trooper" for 9 pts, it adds an extra squad member with a vox caster. You then need to decrement the number of regular infantry guys to 8 instead of 9. Right now, your infantry squad is at 49 points when it should be 45 points, because it has 11 members. I bet Battlescribe is throwing some validation errors too... if you're using the desktop version it should have a validation report at the bottom, and if you're using the mobile version there's a red icon indicating there are validation issues there as well. The Command Squad has similar issues, when you add a veteran w/ standard and a veteran w/ vox caster, you need to remove 2 regular veterans, so the squad is still 4 men.

   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




I think I've sorted out the points now. Essentially the only differences I've implemented are small ones over the original post; upgrades to the Sentinel and the Chimera.

Thanks again for the help, I really appreciate it.
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine






Steiner wrote:
Battalion

HQ (2-3):

[30] Company Commander, Laspistol, Frag Grenades
[215] Knight Commander Pask, Punisher Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Track Guards
[46] Primaris Psyker, Force Stave

Troops (3-6):

[45] Infantry Squad, Vox Caster
[45] Infantry Squad, Vox Caster
[45] Infantry Squad, Vox Caster

Elites (0-6):

[24] Commissar
[39] Command Squad, Medi-pack, Vox Caster, Regimental Standard
[39] Command Squad, Medi-pack, Vox Caster, Platoon Standard

Fast Attack (0-3):

[50] Scout Sentinel, Lascannon

Heavy Support (0-3):

[33] Heavy Weapons Squad, Mortar
[147] Russ Exterminator, Heavy Bolter
[152] Leman Russ, Heavy Bolter

Transports:

[88] Chimera, x2 Flamers

Points: 998


Okay, so I thought I would be a bit less ambitious and put up a [1000]pt army in order to give me a more realistic goal to work toward and to get an army ready for the tabletop sooner. I've made adjustments from feedback from my earlier attempt at an army so hopefully there will be fewer schoolboy errors, but a few may have still got past me. If you think there is a way to make it more friendly for someone who is new to the game, that'd be great, but otherwise I built this to try and be as balanced as I could while still appealing to the tread-head within me.


So, here are my thoughts.

First and foremost:

Track guards go on hellhounds or nothing at all. Your Leman Russes don't need them, and the points can be better spent somewhere else.
Voxcasters are NEVER worth taking, maybe if they were a 1 point upgrade, but not at 5PPM. Again, these points can be better spent elsewhere.
Commissars are never worth taking, you're better off with more Company Commanders or Platoon Commanders for orders.
Command Squads are in the same both, they're just not worth taking as they typically won't do anything to help you out.
Scout Sentinels are pretty decent in a Tallarn list with a Multilaser, anything else is just a waste of their points.
Heavy Flamers are too short of a range to be effective on anything, let alone Chimeras. I'd replace them with Heavy Bolters (2X) as they're much, much better being stable shots. Since you're not running vets, you're better off taking the Chimeras out of the list and using your IF squads to screen your tanks. Consider replacing them with another 20 Infantry.
Pask is a good choice, especially with a Punisher cannon. Consider dumping some points into Multimelta sponsons and a Lascannon. His BS 3+ combined with all the dakka makes him a good screening candidate that can really bring the hurt at the 24 inch range.
Russ Exterminator is not a good choice. Consider a second Executioner, or a second Punisher for Pask to issue orders to.
Psykers in the guard aren't worth taking. They can provide some cool tricks, but most of those tricks are wasted on a Leman Russ and therefore just aren't worth it. I'd drop him too in order to get that second Company Commander.

You could try something like this:

HQ:

2 Company Commanders w/ chainsword and laspistol
1 Pask, Punisher w/Multimelta sponsons, Lascannon

Troops:
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad

Elites:
Platoon Commander w/ chainsword and laspistol
Tech-Priest Enginseer

Fast Attack:
Hellhound w/Flame Turret and Heavy Bolter, Track Guards

Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Executioner w/ Plasma cannon sponsons, Heavy Bolter.
Leman Russ w/ Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter sponsons, Heavy Bolter
Heavy Weapon Squad (3x Lascannons)

I'd have to check the points for this as I'm not sure what you're going for game wise, but you can see the basic idea here.

Platoon Commander stays with the HWT's and issues reroll 1s to hit. Tech-Priest moves with Pask and the two russes keeping up the repairs, Infantry squads provide the screen, plus objective holders. Pask doles out the rerolls to the Executioner or himself.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Ah right, I completely hadn't considered a Hellhound. Do you think the standard flame turret it worth it, or one of the other variants? The reason I ask is I originally had the Russ Exterminator in order to help deal with units with slightly more armour than the Punisher might be able to take care of.

Just a quick tote up of your suggestion seems to come to 984 points, so that's perfectly feasible.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/05/09 09:17:35


 
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine






Steiner wrote:
Ah right, I completely hadn't considered a Hellhound. Do you think the standard flame turret it worth it, or one of the other variants? The reason I ask is I originally had the Russ Exterminator in order to help deal with units with slightly more armour than the Punisher might be able to take care of.

Just a quick tote up of your suggestion seems to come to 984 points, so that's perfectly feasible.


The flamecannon is immensely worth it, the other two variants again are not cost effective for what they will do.

In the case of the Exterminator vs. Punisher, the punisher would still win.

20 Shots, S5 shooting twice is rolling 40 dice.
4 Shots, S7 -1 2 DMG shooting twice is 8 dice.

The Punisher is superior, even though its ap and S are inferior because it puts out 5 times the number of shots in double tap range. 8th edition isn't about the "quality of the fire power" it is about the volume. When it comes to guard, you're going to be commonly hitting on a 5+ thanks to one of the worst rules in 8th (- hit modifiers). What this means for the pure guard player is that you need to dedicate more firepower to killing your target than say, a space marine, eldar or necron army would. This is also why the hellhound with the flamecannon is worth taking, it's a 16 inch flamer that rolls auto hits, bypassing your guard Ballistic Skill issues. - hit doesn't affect it, and its range is good enough to mean that it cannot be reliably charged. Run the hellhound up the field and smash right into the enemy with it, while your tanks are blasting away.

As for the heavy armor, this is the other reason I suggest Executioners. Plasma is King in this edition, nothing else can come close to it and the LR Executioner is one hell of a good tank with proper orders. I run three in my Catachan lists and three in my Tallarn lists, always.

Here is a sample list of Catachans that you might want to try running.


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [60 PL, 8CP, 1000pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Catachan

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 31pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

Company Commander [2 PL, 31pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

+ Troops +

Conscripts [3 PL, 80pts]: 20x Conscript

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

+ Elites +

Sergeant Harker [3 PL, 50pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Hellhounds [12 PL, 222pts]
. Hellhound: Heavy Bolter, Track guards, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon
. Hellhound: Heavy Bolter, Track guards, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [20 PL, 330pts]
. Leman Russ Executioner: Heavy Bolter, Plasma Cannons, Turret-mounted Executioner Plasma Cannon
. Leman Russ Executioner: Heavy Bolter, Plasma Cannons, Turret-mounted Executioner Plasma Cannon

Wyverns [6 PL, 103pts]
. Wyvern: Heavy Bolter

++ Total: [60 PL, 8CP, 1000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/09 14:58:38


 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






I would caution you to stay away from executioners because of how common -1 or -2 (or even -3) to hit is in this game. If you don't overcharge, it's far worse than a battlecannon, and you can't overcharge safely if you're at -2 to hit, since any 1's, 2's, or 3's cause you mortal wounds. I used to run 2 of them, but since I realized this have switched over to battle cannons since I just can't field them without having them kill themselves.

Also, I cannot imagine any reason for ever taking Conscripts. They're the same cost as Guardsmen, but worse in every possible way.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/09 16:20:29


 
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine






 Horst wrote:
I would caution you to stay away from executioners because of how common -1 or -2 (or even -3) to hit is in this game. If you don't overcharge, it's far worse than a battlecannon, and you can't overcharge safely if you're at -2 to hit, since any 1's, 2's, or 3's cause you mortal wounds. I used to run 2 of them, but since I realized this have switched over to battle cannons since I just can't field them without having them kill themselves.

Also, I cannot imagine any reason for ever taking Conscripts. They're the same cost as Guardsmen, but worse in every possible way.


I STRONGLY disagree, they're probably the best tank in the game next to the punisher. I rarely have any problems with them, and they often do the work of my entire tank force. (- hit) can be a problem, but it's easy enough to mitigate. The mortal wounds are fine to take on the tank if you bring along reroll 1's to hit from a commander and a techpriest for repairs. If you're dead set on taking something else though, I'd fall back to punishers with multi-meltas for the reason I listed above.

Conscripts are a bubble wrap for the tanks to protect them from cc chargers. The quickest way to make guard tanks useless is to charge them. Once you do that, it's over for them (thanks to the asinine rules for shooting after leaving CC). You can always replace them with IF squads if you wish.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






 Togusa wrote:
 Horst wrote:
I would caution you to stay away from executioners because of how common -1 or -2 (or even -3) to hit is in this game. If you don't overcharge, it's far worse than a battlecannon, and you can't overcharge safely if you're at -2 to hit, since any 1's, 2's, or 3's cause you mortal wounds. I used to run 2 of them, but since I realized this have switched over to battle cannons since I just can't field them without having them kill themselves.

Also, I cannot imagine any reason for ever taking Conscripts. They're the same cost as Guardsmen, but worse in every possible way.


I STRONGLY disagree, they're probably the best tank in the game next to the punisher. I rarely have any problems with them, and they often do the work of my entire tank force. (- hit) can be a problem, but it's easy enough to mitigate. The mortal wounds are fine to take on the tank if you bring along reroll 1's to hit from a commander and a techpriest for repairs. If you're dead set on taking something else though, I'd fall back to punishers with multi-meltas for the reason I listed above.

Conscripts are a bubble wrap for the tanks to protect them from cc chargers. The quickest way to make guard tanks useless is to charge them. Once you do that, it's over for them (thanks to the asinine rules for shooting after leaving CC). You can always replace them with IF squads if you wish.


How are going to mitigate it on Eldar or Dark Eldar flyers though? You declare you're firing at an Alaitoc Hemlock, and then all of a sudden they use Lightning Fast Reflexes, and you're at -3 to hit. How can you mitigate that? You're going to take more damage from firing than the enemy is. Against most threatening things that you're gonna fire a Leman Russ at, they have a 5++ invuln anyway, so the extra AP from the Plasma is wasted. The average damage is the same, but the double range of the Battle Cannon is also useful when fighting at extreme ranges.

Guard has the lowest win rates vs Eldar and Dark Eldar. So any decent list should keep them in mind, and anything weak to those armies should not be taken.

Punisher Cannons have a place, but honestly I'd be wary of taking them in most cases, since they are not substantially better than Lasguns against a lot of targets. Seriously, 2 squads of Guardsmen using First Rank Fire Second Rank Fire does nearly as much damage as a Punisher cannon against Orks or marines. Know what Guardsmen CANT do? Take out tanks at 70"+ away. You really need battle cannons for that.

I'd also suggest (generally) not taking Leman Russes in general unless they're tank commanders (I'd usually suggest Basilisks instead for a heavy support choice), but meh, for a friendly list you can get away with it.
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine






 Horst wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
 Horst wrote:
I would caution you to stay away from executioners because of how common -1 or -2 (or even -3) to hit is in this game. If you don't overcharge, it's far worse than a battlecannon, and you can't overcharge safely if you're at -2 to hit, since any 1's, 2's, or 3's cause you mortal wounds. I used to run 2 of them, but since I realized this have switched over to battle cannons since I just can't field them without having them kill themselves.

Also, I cannot imagine any reason for ever taking Conscripts. They're the same cost as Guardsmen, but worse in every possible way.


I STRONGLY disagree, they're probably the best tank in the game next to the punisher. I rarely have any problems with them, and they often do the work of my entire tank force. (- hit) can be a problem, but it's easy enough to mitigate. The mortal wounds are fine to take on the tank if you bring along reroll 1's to hit from a commander and a techpriest for repairs. If you're dead set on taking something else though, I'd fall back to punishers with multi-meltas for the reason I listed above.

Conscripts are a bubble wrap for the tanks to protect them from cc chargers. The quickest way to make guard tanks useless is to charge them. Once you do that, it's over for them (thanks to the asinine rules for shooting after leaving CC). You can always replace them with IF squads if you wish.


How are going to mitigate it on Eldar or Dark Eldar flyers though? You declare you're firing at an Alaitoc Hemlock, and then all of a sudden they use Lightning Fast Reflexes, and you're at -3 to hit. How can you mitigate that? You're going to take more damage from firing than the enemy is. Against most threatening things that you're gonna fire a Leman Russ at, they have a 5++ invuln anyway, so the extra AP from the Plasma is wasted. The average damage is the same, but the double range of the Battle Cannon is also useful when fighting at extreme ranges.

Guard has the lowest win rates vs Eldar and Dark Eldar. So any decent list should keep them in mind, and anything weak to those armies should not be taken.

Punisher Cannons have a place, but honestly I'd be wary of taking them in most cases, since they are not substantially better than Lasguns against a lot of targets. Seriously, 2 squads of Guardsmen using First Rank Fire Second Rank Fire does nearly as much damage as a Punisher cannon against Orks or marines. Know what Guardsmen CANT do? Take out tanks at 70"+ away. You really need battle cannons for that.

I'd also suggest (generally) not taking Leman Russes in general unless they're tank commanders (I'd usually suggest Basilisks instead for a heavy support choice), but meh, for a friendly list you can get away with it.


I suppose it depends, no one in my area plays eldar flyers, or eldar in general so I've never had to deal with this kind of thing before. OP needs to find out what his local meta is like, if it is pretty friendly then none of this matters (at least not 90% of the time anyway)
.

Now, battle cannons are still the old goodie. Can't go wrong their, but due to their random shot nature I would still suggest using Catachans are your tactics. Basilisks are an excellent suggestion, alongside harker and some Wyrvens, you can do quite a lot of nasty.
   
Made in us
Stubborn Eternal Guard





Alaska

I think we could be even more helpful to the OP if we knew what doctrine wants to use.
I mostly play Tallarn. Hellhounds with Flamers are a beloved auto include but I'm not sure how widespread that love is, particularly with gunline play styles.

May the dice be with you!  
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

Okay, looking at cost effectiveness here.

You guys are making me re-think my glued-on (rather than magnets) hull HF's on my hellhounds... HB's give a wee bit more utility and cheap in 8th.

Since Pask or the Tank Commander will be a "bullet hose" do not forget the Storm bolter or Heavy stubber (cheap!), you want all the dakka you can on this thing (HB's hull and sponsons).
You need to make the most of their high BS.

The company commanders are a must for giving your Infantry and heavy weapons a bit more utility.

If you must field a Chimera, go with two HB's.

I think with a few tanks an Enginseer is looking like he will pay for himself.

I would strongly suggest looking at using an "Astropath" for denying and dishing out a few powers.
Just casting "Nightshroud" or "Psychic Barrier" on Pask alone may be worth it (Or the next nearest tank for that matter).

I would also suggest replacing any Wyvern choices with a Mortar heavy weapon squad, it will have more utility and a bit more cost effective.

My best thoughts on this one.

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
 
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