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Battlescribe recently took away the option for a chaos lord on bike to take a thunder hammer. I thought the consensus was lords on bikes/mounts now had access to a thunder hammer. Can someone please educate me.
odog00138 wrote: Battlescribe recently took away the option for a chaos lord on bike to take a thunder hammer. I thought the consensus was lords on bikes/mounts now had access to a thunder hammer. Can someone please educate me.
The codex weapon list supersedes the index weapon list.
The codex list has a thunder hammer, so the Lord in bike has access to that a Thunder Hammer.
Battlescribe has made a bad call on this.
Feel free to tell them on thier feedback page.
odog00138 wrote: Battlescribe recently took away the option for a chaos lord on bike to take a thunder hammer. I thought the consensus was lords on bikes/mounts now had access to a thunder hammer. Can someone please educate me.
The codex weapon list supersedes the index weapon list.
The codex list has a thunder hammer, so the Lord in bike has access to that a Thunder Hammer.
Battlescribe has made a bad call on this.
Feel free to tell them on thier feedback page.
Can you provide citation for where GW have said that Index-only models can use Codex equipment lists? If you can provide it, I'll add Thunder Hammers back in for Index models. I wasn't able to find anything, hence why I took them off.
Battlescribe data author for:
All things Chaos in 40k, Kill Team, Apocalypse
Report issues with the data here:
https://www.github.com/bsdata/
The chaos lord on bike can replace his chainsword with one item from melee weapons list. You are supposed to use the latest rules, which is the Codex chaos space marines v2.0. On that melee weapons list is a TH. Thus, the chaos lord on bike can use a TH.
odog00138 wrote: Battlescribe recently took away the option for a chaos lord on bike to take a thunder hammer. I thought the consensus was lords on bikes/mounts now had access to a thunder hammer. Can someone please educate me.
The codex weapon list supersedes the index weapon list.
The codex list has a thunder hammer, so the Lord in bike has access to that a Thunder Hammer.
Battlescribe has made a bad call on this.
Feel free to tell them on thier feedback page.
Can you provide citation for where GW have said that Index-only models can use Codex equipment lists? If you can provide it, I'll add Thunder Hammers back in for Index models. I wasn't able to find anything, hence why I took them off.
Fun fact, the Enhanced Edition of the Index doesn't give the model any weapon options at all...
But RAW I think you're right:
"Many of the units you will find on the following pages reference one or more of the wargear lists below...When this is the case, the unit may take any item from the appropriate list."
There is no allowance to let you use the wargear lists in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, any more than there is an allowance to let you use the wargear lists from Codex: T'au Empire.
Can you provide citation for where GW have said that Index-only models can use Codex equipment lists? If you can provide it, I'll add Thunder Hammers back in for Index models. I wasn't able to find anything, hence why I took them off.
From intro to codexs:
"In all future publications and official events though, it will be assumed that you’re using the most recent rules and Datasheets. It will also be assumed that you’re using the most up to date points for matched play, in this case, those included in the codex."
Wargear lists fall under the banner of Rules and it is clear that the same named wargear lists of the codex are updated rules equivalents to the ones in the index .
odog00138 wrote: Battlescribe recently took away the option for a chaos lord on bike to take a thunder hammer. I thought the consensus was lords on bikes/mounts now had access to a thunder hammer. Can someone please educate me.
The codex weapon list supersedes the index weapon list.
The codex list has a thunder hammer, so the Lord in bike has access to that a Thunder Hammer.
Battlescribe has made a bad call on this.
Feel free to tell them on thier feedback page.
Can you provide citation for where GW have said that Index-only models can use Codex equipment lists? If you can provide it, I'll add Thunder Hammers back in for Index models. I wasn't able to find anything, hence why I took them off.
Actually, I think you got it right, and the Chaos Lord of Bike should not be able to take a Thunderhammer.
This document allows you to take models and / or wargear options that don't appear in the Codex. There's never been a Chaos Lord on Bike with a Thunderhammer.
So we're talking about a different situation, we're really asking if the Codex Wargear options replace those from the Index. There does not appear to be anything, in this document or any FAQ, that says this can be done. There's plenty of language instructing players to use the points cost for Wargear from the most recent publication, but I can't find anything saying the Codex Wargear list should be used instead of the Index.
The spirit of the Index Datasheet rules seem to be to allow players to use old models with loadouts that are no longer supported. This is different, this is using an old model with a loadout that's never been possible.
As much as I would love to have a Chaos Lord on a Bike with a Thunderhammer, I don't see how to do that given the rules.
odog00138 wrote: Battlescribe recently took away the option for a chaos lord on bike to take a thunder hammer. I thought the consensus was lords on bikes/mounts now had access to a thunder hammer. Can someone please educate me.
GW has said basically, use the most recent version of a rule, so we should do that.
However if you have the option to purchase a weapon in the index, but not in the codex, then you can still purchase the weapon because of the flow chart.
You should be able to gain the thunder hammer because of the flowchart.
You still must use the most updated points for said thunder hammer though.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
odog00138 wrote: Battlescribe recently took away the option for a chaos lord on bike to take a thunder hammer. I thought the consensus was lords on bikes/mounts now had access to a thunder hammer. Can someone please educate me.
GW has said basically, use the most recent version of a rule, so we should do that.
However if you have the option to purchase a weapon in the index, but not in the codex, then you can still purchase the weapon because of the flow chart.
You should be able to gain the thunder hammer because of the flowchart.
You still must use the most updated points for said thunder hammer though.
Most recent datasheet for Chaos Lord on Bike is... Chaos Lord on Bike in the index. The index has no option to take a thunder hammer, it actually doesn't even have a single thunder hammer anywhere.
The only kind of chaos lord that can take a Thunder Hammer is the regular chaos lord on foot, without terminator armor.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
The datasheet for the chaos lord on bike says he can exchange his chainsword for an item from the melee weapons list. The most recent version of the melee weapons list is in the codex. And there is a TH on it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/14 16:38:50
p5freak wrote: The datasheet for the chaos lord on bike says he can exchange his chainsword for an item from the melee weapons list. The most recent version of the melee weapons list is in the codex. And there is a TH on it.
Which melee weapon’s list?
If the index Wargear Options text refers to a weapon list, you need to refer to the index weapon list. Otherwise you may as well start claiming being able to reference weapon lists in any publication.
p5freak wrote: The datasheet for the chaos lord on bike says he can exchange his chainsword for an item from the melee weapons list. The most recent version of the melee weapons list is in the codex. And there is a TH on it.
Which melee weapon’s list?
If the index Wargear Options text refers to a weapon list, you need to refer to the index weapon list. Otherwise you may as well start claiming being able to reference weapon lists in any publication.
That argument rings false. The latest weapon rules and points are also not in the index, yet we are expected to use them.
The same named weapon lists in the codex are clearly updated rules equivalents of the index.
p5freak wrote: The datasheet for the chaos lord on bike says he can exchange his chainsword for an item from the melee weapons list. The most recent version of the melee weapons list is in the codex. And there is a TH on it.
The melee weapon list to be used for index datasheets is clearly defined. You have no permission to use a melee weapons list from any other source.
p5freak wrote: The datasheet for the chaos lord on bike says he can exchange his chainsword for an item from the melee weapons list. The most recent version of the melee weapons list is in the codex. And there is a TH on it.
Which melee weapon’s list?
If the index Wargear Options text refers to a weapon list, you need to refer to the index weapon list. Otherwise you may as well start claiming being able to reference weapon lists in any publication.
That argument rings false. The latest weapon rules and points are also not in the index, yet we are expected to use them.
The same named weapon lists in the codex are clearly updated rules equivalents of the index.
Except the flowchart tells you to use the most recent rules and points. A weapons list is neither.
A datasheet from the index doesn't have any more permission to use a weapons list from CSM 2.0 than a datasheet from the Grey Knights codex.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/14 21:47:07
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
p5freak wrote: The datasheet for the chaos lord on bike says he can exchange his chainsword for an item from the melee weapons list. The most recent version of the melee weapons list is in the codex. And there is a TH on it.
The melee weapon list to be used for index datasheets is clearly defined. You have no permission to use a melee weapons list from any other source.
You still need to use the most updated rules though. and the melee weapons list in the codex supersedes the one in the index.
Same goes for psychic powers.
An Ultramarine "LIBRARIAN ON BIKE" (Index: Imperium 1, P.15) has to use the psychic powers from the Librarius discipline in the Codex on P.202, not from the index on P. 10.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
p5freak wrote: The datasheet for the chaos lord on bike says he can exchange his chainsword for an item from the melee weapons list. The most recent version of the melee weapons list is in the codex. And there is a TH on it.
The melee weapon list to be used for index datasheets is clearly defined. You have no permission to use a melee weapons list from any other source.
You still need to use the most updated rules though. and the melee weapons list in the codex supersedes the one in the index.
Same goes for psychic powers.
An Ultramarine "LIBRARIAN ON BIKE" (Index: Imperium 1, P.15) has to use the psychic powers from the Librarius discipline in the Codex on P.202, not from the index on P. 10.
Can you provide citation for that? Pretty sure the Index all says : Use the X found at page Y of the index, for example the melee weapon list of the index. Nothing gives you a special right to go pick into the codex for another weapon list. Yes they do share a name, and that can cause confusion, but it's the same as psychic powers with the same name but different effect or things like that.
HIWPI is that index choices like say a librarian on bike only has access to psychic powers and weapon list found in the index, at index price, because that's what the rules tells you to do.
p5freak wrote: The datasheet for the chaos lord on bike says he can exchange his chainsword for an item from the melee weapons list. The most recent version of the melee weapons list is in the codex. And there is a TH on it.
The melee weapon list to be used for index datasheets is clearly defined. You have no permission to use a melee weapons list from any other source.
You still need to use the most updated rules though. and the melee weapons list in the codex supersedes the one in the index.
Same goes for psychic powers.
An Ultramarine "LIBRARIAN ON BIKE" (Index: Imperium 1, P.15) has to use the psychic powers from the Librarius discipline in the Codex on P.202, not from the index on P. 10.
Can you provide citation for that? Pretty sure the Index all says : Use the X found at page Y of the index, for example the melee weapon list of the index. Nothing gives you a special right to go pick into the codex for another weapon list. Yes they do share a name, and that can cause confusion, but it's the same as psychic powers with the same name but different effect or things like that.
HIWPI is that index choices like say a librarian on bike only has access to psychic powers and weapon list found in the index, at index price, because that's what the rules tells you to do.
I do not know if GW has specifically said "use the most updated rules" verbatim. However it is a function of any ruleset that has updates and errata to use the most recent version of the rules.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
p5freak wrote: The datasheet for the chaos lord on bike says he can exchange his chainsword for an item from the melee weapons list. The most recent version of the melee weapons list is in the codex. And there is a TH on it.
The melee weapon list to be used for index datasheets is clearly defined. You have no permission to use a melee weapons list from any other source.
You still need to use the most updated rules though. and the melee weapons list in the codex supersedes the one in the index.
Same goes for psychic powers.
An Ultramarine "LIBRARIAN ON BIKE" (Index: Imperium 1, P.15) has to use the psychic powers from the Librarius discipline in the Codex on P.202, not from the index on P. 10.
Can you provide citation for that? Pretty sure the Index all says : Use the X found at page Y of the index, for example the melee weapon list of the index. Nothing gives you a special right to go pick into the codex for another weapon list. Yes they do share a name, and that can cause confusion, but it's the same as psychic powers with the same name but different effect or things like that.
HIWPI is that index choices like say a librarian on bike only has access to psychic powers and weapon list found in the index, at index price, because that's what the rules tells you to do.
I do not know if GW has specifically said "use the most updated rules" verbatim. However it is a function of any ruleset that has updates and errata to use the most recent version of the rules.
Is a list a rule? Not sure if I would take that on faith.
p5freak wrote: The datasheet for the chaos lord on bike says he can exchange his chainsword for an item from the melee weapons list. The most recent version of the melee weapons list is in the codex. And there is a TH on it.
The melee weapon list to be used for index datasheets is clearly defined. You have no permission to use a melee weapons list from any other source.
You still need to use the most updated rules though. and the melee weapons list in the codex supersedes the one in the index.
Same goes for psychic powers.
An Ultramarine "LIBRARIAN ON BIKE" (Index: Imperium 1, P.15) has to use the psychic powers from the Librarius discipline in the Codex on P.202, not from the index on P. 10.
Can you provide citation for that? Pretty sure the Index all says : Use the X found at page Y of the index, for example the melee weapon list of the index. Nothing gives you a special right to go pick into the codex for another weapon list. Yes they do share a name, and that can cause confusion, but it's the same as psychic powers with the same name but different effect or things like that.
HIWPI is that index choices like say a librarian on bike only has access to psychic powers and weapon list found in the index, at index price, because that's what the rules tells you to do.
I do not know if GW has specifically said "use the most updated rules" verbatim. However it is a function of any ruleset that has updates and errata to use the most recent version of the rules.
Is a list a rule? Not sure if I would take that on faith.
Lists like the Melee weapons list in the Codex?
Yes, they are a part of the rules.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
p5freak wrote: The datasheet for the chaos lord on bike says he can exchange his chainsword for an item from the melee weapons list. The most recent version of the melee weapons list is in the codex. And there is a TH on it.
The melee weapon list to be used for index datasheets is clearly defined. You have no permission to use a melee weapons list from any other source.
You still need to use the most updated rules though. and the melee weapons list in the codex supersedes the one in the index.
Same goes for psychic powers.
An Ultramarine "LIBRARIAN ON BIKE" (Index: Imperium 1, P.15) has to use the psychic powers from the Librarius discipline in the Codex on P.202, not from the index on P. 10.
Citation needed.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
DeathReaper wrote: I do not know if GW has specifically said "use the most updated rules" verbatim. However it is a function of any ruleset that has updates and errata to use the most recent version of the rules.
The most recent rules for a Chaos Lord on a bike are found in the index. You have no permission to randomly pick weapon lists from other books.
Otherwise all loyalist space marines would have to pick wargear from Codex:CSM since that is the most recent "Melee Weapon List", "Terminator Melee Weapon List", "Heavy Weapons List" etc.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/15 07:20:21
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
I already said "I do not know if GW has specifically said "use the most updated rules" verbatim. However it is a function of any ruleset that has updates and errata to use the most recent version of the rules." in a previous post.
But your citation lies in the fact that we use the most up to date rules from GW.
Edit: Found it: "Can I choose to use the rules and/or points for units from my index instead of the new ones in the codex once released?
In your own games, if you and your opponent agree, you can, of course, play with whatever rules you like.
In all future publications and official events though, it will be assumed that you’re using the most recent rules and Datasheets. It will also be assumed that you’re using the most up to date points for matched play, in this case, those included in the codex."
DeathReaper wrote: I do not know if GW has specifically said "use the most updated rules" verbatim. However it is a function of any ruleset that has updates and errata to use the most recent version of the rules.
The most recent rules for a Chaos Lord on a bike are found in the index. You have no permission to randomly pick weapon lists from other books. Otherwise all loyalist space marines would have to pick wargear from Codex:CSM since that is the most recent "Melee Weapon List", "Terminator Melee Weapon List", "Heavy Weapons List" etc.
You use the most up to date rules. The index entry for a Chaos Lord on a bike states "This model may replace its bolt pistol with one item from the Pistols, Combi-weapons or Melee Weapons lists."
The most updated version of those lists are now found in the Codex: Chaos Space Marines, so you have whatever options are listed there.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/15 08:31:22
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
DeathReaper wrote: You use the most up to date rules. The index entry for a Chaos Lord on a bike states "This model may replace its bolt pistol with one item from the Pistols, Combi-weapons or Melee Weapons lists."
The most updated version of those lists are now found in the Codex: Chaos Space Marines, so you have whatever options are listed there.
"Any model may replace his Nemesis force sword with an item from the Melee Weapons list."
So Grey Knight Terminators may not take any nemesis force weapons, but can trade their swords for Chainaxes, Thunder Hammers or Pairs of Lightning Claws.
Yes or no?
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
DeathReaper wrote: You use the most up to date rules. The index entry for a Chaos Lord on a bike states "This model may replace its bolt pistol with one item from the Pistols, Combi-weapons or Melee Weapons lists."
The most updated version of those lists are now found in the Codex: Chaos Space Marines, so you have whatever options are listed there.
"Any model may replace his Nemesis force sword with an item from the Melee Weapons list."
So Grey Knight Terminators may not take any nemesis force weapons, but can trade their swords for Chainaxes, Thunder Hammers or Pairs of Lightning Claws.
Yes or no?
Are the rules for Grey Knight Terminators part of the rules for the Chaos Space Marines faction?
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
I already said "I do not know if GW has specifically said "use the most updated rules" verbatim. However it is a function of any ruleset that has updates and errata to use the most recent version of the rules." in a previous post.
But your citation lies in the fact that we use the most up to date rules from GW.
Edit: Found it: "Can I choose to use the rules and/or points for units from my index instead of the new ones in the codex once released?
In your own games, if you and your opponent agree, you can, of course, play with whatever rules you like.
In all future publications and official events though, it will be assumed that you’re using the most recent rules and Datasheets. It will also be assumed that you’re using the most up to date points for matched play, in this case, those included in the codex."
I don't think that's specific enough to tell us whether or not a weapon list is a rule or not. It seems like it's pretty much undefined as to what weapon lists are in this context. I don't think anyone's arguing you use the points values form the Index for weapons that also exist in the newer Codex but this is a different question altogether.
The weapons choices are restricted to the index options. The weapons list in this context is not a rule. You use the codex rules for the weapons allowed on the index list.
As the model is index only, you must use that datasheet. And the list of options referenced in that datasheet is the index list. Citation would be needed that the codex list replaces the index list for index only datasheets.
You use the most up to date rules. The index entry for a Chaos Lord on a bike states "This model may replace its bolt pistol with one item from the Pistols, Combi-weapons or Melee Weapons lists."
The most updated version of those lists are now found in the Codex: Chaos Space Marines, so you have whatever options are listed there.
The problem with this statement is that by that definition you never get to use the index weapon list, which might be the only list that has the weapons options that your older model has on it. As the entire flowchart was made for you to be able to play older models, including models with older weapon options, it wouldn't make sense to be forced to use the most recent weapons table when it's the older weapons table that gives you the options you need for the model. That suggests that you can't assert that the weapons tables are rules that they're referring to in their statement about using the most recent version.
You use the most up to date rules. The index entry for a Chaos Lord on a bike states "This model may replace its bolt pistol with one item from the Pistols, Combi-weapons or Melee Weapons lists."
The most updated version of those lists are now found in the Codex: Chaos Space Marines, so you have whatever options are listed there.
The problem with this statement is that by that definition you never get to use the index weapon list, which might be the only list that has the weapons options that your older model has on it. As the entire flowchart was made for you to be able to play older models, including models with older weapon options, it wouldn't make sense to be forced to use the most recent weapons table when it's the older weapons table that gives you the options you need for the model. That suggests that you can't assert that the weapons tables are rules that they're referring to in their statement about using the most recent version.
The flowchart explicitly gives you an exception, allowing you to use an older version of the rules when parts of those rules no longer exist in the new rules. You're not allowed to use older rules, except when given explicit permission to do so.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/15 14:13:32
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
You use the most up to date rules. The index entry for a Chaos Lord on a bike states "This model may replace its bolt pistol with one item from the Pistols, Combi-weapons or Melee Weapons lists."
The most updated version of those lists are now found in the Codex: Chaos Space Marines, so you have whatever options are listed there.
The problem with this statement is that by that definition you never get to use the index weapon list, which might be the only list that has the weapons options that your older model has on it. As the entire flowchart was made for you to be able to play older models, including models with older weapon options, it wouldn't make sense to be forced to use the most recent weapons table when it's the older weapons table that gives you the options you need for the model. That suggests that you can't assert that the weapons tables are rules that they're referring to in their statement about using the most recent version.
The flowchart explicitly gives you an exception, allowing you to use an older version of the rules when parts of those rules no longer exist in the new rules. You're not allowed to use older rules, except when given explicit permission to do so.
They do tell you to use the index for weapon options you don't get in the codex. That does suggest that you don't use the codex list as those are codex options, not index options. This is in response to Death Reaper's saying you have to use the codex list of weapons as it is newer; obviously this is not true.
p5freak wrote: The datasheet for the chaos lord on bike says he can exchange his chainsword for an item from the melee weapons list. The most recent version of the melee weapons list is in the codex. And there is a TH on it.
The melee weapon list to be used for index datasheets is clearly defined. You have no permission to use a melee weapons list from any other source.
You still need to use the most updated rules though. and the melee weapons list in the codex supersedes the one in the index.
Same goes for psychic powers.
An Ultramarine "LIBRARIAN ON BIKE" (Index: Imperium 1, P.15) has to use the psychic powers from the Librarius discipline in the Codex on P.202, not from the index on P. 10.
Can you provide citation for that? Pretty sure the Index all says : Use the X found at page Y of the index, for example the melee weapon list of the index. Nothing gives you a special right to go pick into the codex for another weapon list. Yes they do share a name, and that can cause confusion, but it's the same as psychic powers with the same name but different effect or things like that.
HIWPI is that index choices like say a librarian on bike only has access to psychic powers and weapon list found in the index, at index price, because that's what the rules tells you to do.
I do not know if GW has specifically said "use the most updated rules" verbatim. However it is a function of any ruleset that has updates and errata to use the most recent version of the rules.
Is a list a rule? Not sure if I would take that on faith.
Lists like the Melee weapons list in the Codex?
Yes, they are a part of the rules.
In response: there are many lists in the books that are not rules. For example: lists of available units, lists of Psychic powers, lists of Stratagems, etc.
Lists reference items that have rules, telling you what you can do on the tabletop. But the lists themselves are simply itemizing what is available, they have no impact on the game.
I'd say this is a gray area. Were one to interpret the word 'rules' to include every sentence in every book, that would also mean fluff is rules. That would also mean contradictions between 2 books are always resolved in order of publication date, even in situations where 2 distinct Codexes conflict (i.e. faction specific rules get overridden when there's similar language.) There's a lot of silliness that could emerge from this interpretation.
On the other hand, a more narrow definition of rules - where datasheets, points, wording of Stratagems, FAQ entries, etc - are the only language we look at, there's some complexity there as well. Players are explicitly instructed to use the points cost for units and weapon options from the most recent publication. So there are clearly some lists that are intended to be applied to all situations.
I don't accept the argument that 'lists' are 'rules' without some sort of clarification from GW. I think the problem is there are other lists where GW has said, okay players, you always have to use the latest version of this list. They have not said this about wargear lists, and that's exactly the problem. If they are telling us what lists to use in other situations, why not this one?
In response: there are many lists in the books that are not rules. For example: lists of available units, lists of Psychic powers, lists of Stratagems, etc.
If it has something to do with playing the game, then its rules. Your examples are rules.
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