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Hey guys,

I'm starting a 30k Emperor's Children force. I'm starting very slowly with just a box of tactical marines for now, but I wanted to start to get an idea of where I should go next.

I really like the look of the FW bikes. Are they good in 30k? Do they benefit from the Emperor's Children initiative boost? What's a good loadout for them and how many would I potentially need for a good squad?

Any help is much appreciated!

The Emperor's Children Legion rules do indeed apply to the bikes; as a general rule anyone who isn't a vehicle gets Legion rules. I'm inclined to look sideways at using bikes for the EC charge->win fight->overrun gameplan as they perform very similarly to Assault Marines at a dramatically higher price because of their increased flexibility.

The 30pts/model you're paying for Outriders over Assault Marines buys you three things: T5, which gives you better odds of winning fights and getting to do the overrun, twin-linked boltguns and the special weapon upgrades (the ones I got only came with parts for plasma guns, though the flamers/meltas are options), which give you more things to do on turns when you're not in combat, and Jink, which makes you more resistant to some ranged attacks on the way in.

In Emperor's Children I'd recommend leaving them on the boltguns and taking the one power sword per three; it keeps the price down so you can get more of them stuck in, and the power swords let you go through most opposition fast enough to get your overrun attempt.

That sounds really awesome to me! Can the bikes take the Phoenix Spears by chance? I'd love to have a bunch of phoenix-spear charging bike/cavalry running in on those awesome MkIV bikes and trashing things!

Phoenix spears are available to Characters with the option to take power fists (i.e. Praetors, Consuls, and most Sergeants), Phoenix Terminators, and Palatine Blades.

You could do a Phoenix spear on the Sergeant and use the one-per-three power weapon for power lances if you wanted, though. They're not as good (S+1/AP3 on the charge, AP4 otherwise) but they're cheaper, look similar, and if you're running a shock squad built on getting that charge off anyway...

That sounds pretty cool. Getting the +1 strength means I'm wounding on 3's on the charge and still getting the ap3. That's mighty tempting. Throw on a conversion to make it clear which one is the sergeant.

Thanks so much for your help! I can't wait to build this squad of awesome fast spear bikes!

drbored wrote:
That sounds pretty cool. Getting the +1 strength means I'm wounding on 3's on the charge and still getting the ap3. That's mighty tempting. Throw on a conversion to make it clear which one is the sergeant.

Thanks so much for your help! I can't wait to build this squad of awesome fast spear bikes!

Keep in mind you only get one power weapon per three models, so it'll be Sergeant/1 spear/1 chainsword for the first three and 2 chainswords/1 spear per three following, so you'll need three different "spear" models to indicate which are power lances/generic close combat weapons/the Phoenix power spear.

Addendum: Unfortunately jetbikes don't get the one per three power weapons you get on normal bikes so if you want a real jetbike lancer squad you need to go to the Custodes or the White Scars. The Command Squad can ride bikes or jetbikes, and can use power lances, but as nobody in that squad actually has the Character type (they all have Chosen Warriors which lets them issue and accept challenges, but it explicitly confers no other features of the Character type) you can't give any of them Phoenix spears.

I'm a fan of Outriders. I keep the bolters on because the other gun options are really, really expensive and I'm likely to jink with them anyway. I give them meltabombs, and I would highly recommend including at least one weapon that's always AP2. You can always model a power axe as a halberd-like weapon to try to preserve the aesthetic. For fun, give the guys without power weapons chainswords-on-poles.

Nine is probably the ideal number. A squad of six would have to be careful about who it charges and could work as a late-game unit. A squad of three bikes with plasma guns could be used as a shooty harassment unit but I think there are better units for that.

A Librarian or Chaplain make great additions if you don't mind the unit approaching Death Star points levels.

I also like Attack Bikes with multimeltas, but modeling them currently requires kitbashing.
Jetbikes are purely a shooty unit so they don't take advantage of Emperor's Children rules. Still good, though. Keep them at range.

Yeah, I think a squad of 9 would be really awesome. A sgt with Phoenix spear, two models with power lances, and one model with a power axe that I could model as a halberd. then 5 models with chainswords and all with the regular bolters to keep them relatively cheap.

would LOVE to attach a character or two to the squad. Chaplain would be good. Apothecary on bike would be amazing if I can actually do that

Apothecary and Primus Medicae are both totally allowed on bikes. Basic one is a better pick, generally; he doesn't have the statline and isn't as well-armed but he's a lot cheaper (65pts v. 120pts), and you can use the rest of the Apothecarion Detachment to give an FNP to two more squads. The Primus Medicae is mostly there to join squads that can't take a basic Apothecary (jetbikes and Terminators).

In Assault squads Apothecaries are arguably better than offensive consuls because their effects also apply while you’re taking fire on your way in. In bike squads you’d jink against shooting, so Apothecaries and Chaplains both only “work” in close combat. Which is fine; still worth it, and feel free to choose either one (or a Librarian).

The Emperor’s Children are better known for their Apothecaries, and a little extra splash of white or ivory looks great on purple.

Carlisimo wrote:
In Assault squads Apothecaries are arguably better than offensive consuls because their effects also apply while you’re taking fire on your way in. In bike squads you’d jink against shooting, so Apothecaries and Chaplains both only “work” in close combat. Which is fine; still worth it, and feel free to choose either one (or a Librarian).

The Emperor’s Children are better known for their Apothecaries, and a little extra splash of white or ivory looks great on purple.

Ok cool! I think an apothecary would be good in a bike squad because the t5 means they don't get Instant Death'd except by s10 weapons, so the FNP an Apothecary gives would go a lot further and even work against things like power fists.

I won't do a librarian because the EC saw the gene needed to become a psyker as a 'flaw' and therefore didn't have them early on, but I totally agree. The white with the purple looks super ace!

Now my main issue is understanding the color scheme a bit more. From what I've seen in the pictures, there's purple, white for rank, but then there's also gray/silver helmets and shoulder pads as well? What do those mean?

The colors aren’t really well defined. The Book 1 color plates do cover what you’ve seen - white decorations for rank, large segments of white on Apothecaries, platinum helmets and sometimes chestplates on Palatine Blades. But it isn’t clear what they usually use on their shoulder pads. I think ivory is hard to beat, personally. You can even go for a marble look.

The Age of Darkness podcast episode 55 has good painting advice on the purple, and I’ve seen a few people use metallic purple and have it work really well (raptorimperialis on Instagram, for example).

Actually, white painting for rank is said to be mainly an old way to do it, before Fulgrim arrival in the legion.

 godardc wrote:
Actually, white painting for rank is said to be mainly an old way to do it, before Fulgrim arrival in the legion.

So what is the new way? I see so many different takes on it.

On the FW Facebook page, they said this:

"as we understand at it on the Community Team, the Emperor's Children were very idiosyncratic when it came to their heraldry - Fulgrim would infamously change it on a whim! You should feel free to pick the scheme you like best and just run with it."

I'll give a look into my big black book tomorrow to see if it is explicited !

The book one only tells about crest showing rank, with two different ranks and two different crests. The marines shown in the pictures don't have any particular markings for companies etc... It's a bit disappointing, to be honest.
Some even have a silver plated helmet or silver shoulder pad borders without any explanation, and without being part of the Palatine Blades.
The shoulder pads are full purple however.

 godardc wrote:
The book one only tells about crest showing rank, with two different ranks and two different crests. The marines shown in the pictures don't have any particular markings for companies etc... It's a bit disappointing, to be honest.
Some even have a silver plated helmet or silver shoulder pad borders without any explanation, and without being part of the Palatine Blades.
The shoulder pads are full purple however.

Thanks for the info! I'll probably do a mix of white, purple, and silver, with the classic gold trim tying everything together. I'll make models like sgts and leaders stand out, but the regular tacticals will likely be completely purple.

 godardc wrote:
The book one only tells about crest showing rank, with two different ranks and two different crests. The marines shown in the pictures don't have any particular markings for companies etc... It's a bit disappointing, to be honest.
Some even have a silver plated helmet or silver shoulder pad borders without any explanation, and without being part of the Palatine Blades.
The shoulder pads are full purple however.

The platinum-plated armour pieces are symbols of honour - veterans, those who have excelled in battle, that sort of thing. Palatine Blades members are likely to have such decoration, but only because thoe Legionaries who have already been gifted them are the sort of Marines more likely to be chosen to join the palatine Blades.

I'd use platinum panels to denote veteran sergeants, I suppose, or veteran tactical squads, that sort of thing.

I've done the shoulder pad rims and other edge trim on most of my Marines in silver, saving gold for officers, terminators and suchlike. I've not bothered with any white, and so far only the Legion Champion has any platinum areas.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 godardc wrote:
The book one only tells about crest showing rank, with two different ranks and two different crests. The marines shown in the pictures don't have any particular markings for companies etc... It's a bit disappointing, to be honest.
Some even have a silver plated helmet or silver shoulder pad borders without any explanation, and without being part of the Palatine Blades.
The shoulder pads are full purple however.

The platinum-plated armour pieces are symbols of honour - veterans, those who have excelled in battle, that sort of thing. Palatine Blades members are likely to have such decoration, but only because thoe Legionaries who have already been gifted them are the sort of Marines more likely to be chosen to join the palatine Blades.

I'd use platinum panels to denote veteran sergeants, I suppose, or veteran tactical squads, that sort of thing.

I've done the shoulder pad rims and other edge trim on most of my Marines in silver, saving gold for officers, terminators and suchlike. I've not bothered with any white, and so far only the Legion Champion has any platinum areas.

Good information!

Personally, I'll be painting all of my normal tactical and assault marines in the normal purple and gold, with maybe the occasional white knee pad. Sgts will have white panels sporadically across their armor, mainly on their shoulder pads, but some on knee pads and arms and such. My Palatine Blades I think will be much more white than gold, with just spots of purple. So the higher rank a model is, the more white will be on them, but they'll all have some purple and gold. I might throw on some silver spots around the tactical and assault marines as well, just to shake up the look of each model so they don't all look perfectly identical. Things like helmets, arms, backpacks, really highlight the fact that they're a bit individualistic. I think it'll be a good look, and a good precursor to what they look like in 40k.