Switch Theme:

General CW Arrowverse discussion!  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Yes, I know the last one was closed. Perhaps we can try this again with some more facts behind the rants.

Oh, and videos!




I still don't have much of a read on Ruby Rose as an actor. She certainly exudes a strong sense of "rebellious rebel", but I fear that's just her playing herself. She didn't do anything to turn me off her in the recent Arrow/Flash/Supergirl cross-over event, but she didn't do anything to wow me either. This might be one of those things where she grows into the role over time, much like Amel did with the Green Arrow.

Based upon what's in the trailer it seems as though the eventual addition of the vibrant red wig will be Kate's way of making sure people know that she isn't Batman. I believe that this is a clever idea to include something from the comics that, honestly, is kinda goofy, and put it into the show in a way that makes it logical (if perhaps not the first idea she might have gone with). The main point of contention is with the delivery, the "won't let a man take credit for a woman", which rings false both because she is literally stealing Bruce's stuff and it's perfectly natural for people to assume that she's Batman given that that would be the people of Gotham's only frame of reference.

Ultimately I am looking forward to this show as it will add something new to the Arrowverse, especially with Arrow ending with its (very short) 8th Season. The standard, pedestrian, low-hanging-fruit Berlanti-pattern identity politics will be in full swing, much like they are in Supergirl I suspect, but if it's anything like Supergirl it won't get in the way of the show too much (Supergirl's just-finished season is easily it's strongest to date). Berlanti politics, other than being unoriginal and boring (and easily defeated), tend to bring their shows to a grinding halt to deliver that week's Message™. Then the show just carries on as normal. Makes them really easy to ignore. Hopefully that'll continue here (as it'd be asking too much for it not to be part of the show at all). And her being a lesbian is right from the comics. It's a good thing, because it's an intrinsic part of her character but it does not define her as a person. It doesn't come across as tokenistic or cynical pandering (I doubt Ruby Rose would be on board if it were).

Plus the younger Fox is in it, and I believe he becomes Batwing, which is cool.

My only real narrative concern is how this fits in with the rest of the Arrowverse. When we first met Kate she was already established as Batwoman. This is her origin. Is it going to catch up with the rest of the Arrowverse by the time we hit the massive 5-part Crisis on Infinite Earth's cross over event, or are they going to somehow ignore that? One of the catalysts for the Crisis is in Arkham Asylum (Psycho-Pirate, IIRC) by the end of the last cross-over, so they can't just pretend that didn't happen.

Anyway, I'm optimistic.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/20 22:14:56


   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council




USA

Having read the premise, I feel kind of disappointed. A look through the characters and cast leaves me feeling like I already know how the season will play out because the cliches are so obvious (a defense contractor? Oh yeah, they won't be evil as feth and oh look her parents work there? They won't be evil either). I'd be less pessimistic about that, but the other Arrowverse shows aren't really one to run against type.

I feel kind of perturbed that they wouldn't just do a Batman series since they're going into Gotham and all that. Supergirl had promise, but I got disappointed through the entire first season with how "I swear this was a Superman AS episode" a lot of the show was. Even with a more interesting character than Kara to bank the show on I feel less than enthused. Maybe a bit of Arrowverse fatigue. I haven't enjoyed several of the more recent seasons of any of the shows.

   
Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

I'm a big ole Batman fanboy. I like to check out anything related to Gotham City.

The thing about Batman not being part of a DC universe, is that I'm just kind of waiting for him to show up. Because Batman doesn't just say, "feth it, I'm out!". He'd have to be dead. And because Batman is the epitome of Human awesomeness, he can't be dead. And since he can't be dead, he can't not be there. And because he can't not be there, why isn't he showing up?

So as a middle-aged white dude, I recognize that this show isn't targeting me as it's primary audience. Which I suppose is ok since I'm the target audience of the rest of the universe. I am happy for diversity, and hopefully this character will inspire some young person that identifies with her, in the same way Batman inspired a young me to be awesome.

My wife is a huge fan of Alice in Wonderland, and if "Alice" is the key antagonist I'll be watching this show, assuming it comes to Netflix. I'd give it a shot. I thought I'd hate Titans after the first two episodes, but now I find it merely distasteful. And I still watched it. Because DC, and Batman was bound to show up...
   
Made in gb
Boosting Space Marine Biker





Scotland

I mean I can see this appealing to the market of preteen/early teen girls as a kind of edgy show that they watch but that trailer was the most hamfisted attempt at an empowering message I've seen in a while. I'd honestly think it was parody if it wasn't uploaded on their own channel.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Gael Knight wrote:
... but that trailer was the most hamfisted attempt at an empowering message I've seen in a while...
That's normal for Arrowverse shows though. They've yet to master the arts of subtlety and nuance, so their method of delivering social justice narratives is akin to a certain someone screaming "HODOR!" at everything he sees. You can see it coming, it's always pretty hilarious, and also kinda pathetic and sad.

But, as I said, this bull in a china shop method of presenting these "topics" is why they so rarely interfere with the shows themselves. About the only recent one I can think of, and this is going back to last season of Arrow, was their "gun control" episode, where they attempted to have an honest both-sides conversation about gun control, didn't really have a conversation, and literally ended the episode with Mayor Queen announcing a new gun control compromise that every side was happy with (without actually saying what it was, because of course there isn't one!). It was so wishy washy and terrible.

But that's an exception. Most of the time it's like the last episode of Supergirl, where the main character brings the episode to a halt and almost looks to camera to say "I can't believe the 4th Estate saved America!" (they've been attempting to lionise the news media a lot this season) before we get on with the rest of the far-more-interesting narrative. If it's like that, it won't be anything more than something to laugh at.

And that's fine. Still greatly looking forward to this show and the big 5-episode Crisis event.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/21 07:30:07


   
Made in us
[DCM]
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

I'm not very familiar with the character - I only really know the Barbara Gordon where she eventually winds up as Oracle. Doesn't look like a very steep learning curve here.

I don't know how to feel about Ruby Rose. I didn't think she was anything special in Orange Is The New Black, but I think she did just fine in John Wick 2... even though she didn't say a word. So, sort of interested, but not excited.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Ouze wrote:
I'm not very familiar with the character - I only really know the Barbara Gordon where she eventually winds up as Oracle. Doesn't look like a very steep learning curve here.
One was Batgirl, the other Batwoman. Both had red hair.

Comics are weird.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/21 08:52:50


   
Made in gb
Dipping With Wood Stain





Pity this didn't come out a couple of years ago, would've been really excited, but I barely watch any of the Arrowverse shows now.

Weird that Batmans name hasn't popped up until now though, or is this set on Supergirls world where all these big time heroes totally exist you just never see them?

   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 aku-chan wrote:
Weird that Batmans name hasn't popped up until now though, or is this set on Supergirls world where all these big time heroes totally exist you just never see them?
Batman's name came up during the last cross-over event (and Bruce Wayne was mentioned way before that).

From the Arrowverse characters Flash 100% thinks Batman is real, and Oliver thinks he's a myth. The presence of Batwoman confirms that Batman exists, and Ollie has to admit he was wrong.

   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

I love how the red hair looks in the comics but here it looks kinda goofy. I believe thats because in the comics she has a smaller mask, and the red hair is IS hair (Or a wig but, his head), and here it looks like the hair is coming from the batman hood.


I don't know.Maybe I'll give it a try, I always liked Batwoman.

Spoiler:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/21 15:47:29


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
I'm not very familiar with the character - I only really know the Barbara Gordon where she eventually winds up as Oracle. Doesn't look like a very steep learning curve here.
One was Batgirl, the other Batwoman. Both had red hair.

Comics are weird.


Oh, I see. I knew they were two different people (from the trailer), but didn't realize they were two different heroes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Galas wrote:
I love how the red hair looks in the comics but here it looks kinda goofy.


Like I said, I don't know the character, but from a costume design standpoint I think it starts to come out a little too high on the head. I think it would look better if it came out a little further down, like a mullet - then you also don't have the hair blocking the bat ears. It's not a bad costume, but if I were tightening it up, that is what I think would look a little better.

That might be the first time I ever suggested a mullet as a way to improve things.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/21 17:04:21


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







I was wanting to make a thread about this too but held off on it.

A bit of a spoiler free primer.

Batgirl - Barbara Gordon


This is Barbara Gordon, aka Batgirl. Commissioner Gordon's daughter (sometimes niece). She's famously the character in the Killing Joke that was paralised by the Joker. Afterwards, she became 'Oracle' and a leader/founder of the Birds of Prey. She's a regular in all sorts of media, from the Batman 1966 show, to Batman The Animated Series, to the Arkham computer games to Young Justice to a kind of weird version that was related to Alfred somehow in "Batman and Robin." She's an interesting character, but broadly speaking, isn't related to Batwoman in any significant way. However, it's worth highlighting who she is.


Batwoman - Kathy Kane


This is Batwoman, aka Kathy Kane. She's mostly a 1960-1970's era character, whose main thing was being a superhero to try to get Batman to fall in love with her. Noones really thought too much about her in literally decades, except for a brief revival recently by Grant Morrison (who is known for his love of rather... high... concept.... things) where she met the current and main holder of the Batwoman title, Kate Kane.

Batwoman - Kate Kane


Kate debuted in the '52' comic series in 2006 (I've recently read the audiobook, I would highly recommend, if you can get a hold of it) and was written by one of my favourite comic writers, Greg Rucka, famed for the 'Gotham Central' series.

She's Bruce Wayne's cousin, his mother, Martha (WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?) was the sister of Kate's dad, Jacob.
When she was a kid, her parents were US Military and she grew up in a military family. Until her whole family, except for her dad, was kidnapped by terrorists. Her father led the rescue mission, unfortunately, Kate was the only survivor of the ones kidnapped.
With just Kate and her dad, she threw herself into following her parents footsteps, joining West Point, becoming one of the tops of her class...

Until... (spoiler due to page size)

Spoiler:

Spoiler:


And this completely crushes Kate. She has a plan, she knows what she's going to do in her life. And then its entirely ripped away from her due to "Don't Ask Don't Tell." It CRUSHES her entirely, she goes COMPLETELY off the rails, drink, drugs, everything. - I think there's a comment of, "another spoiled little heiress that's going to end up in a ditch."

Until...

Spoiler:



And that, personally to me, is a great backstory to me, and a great source of a character. As such I am really looking forward to the show.

People sometimes complain that Kate's too much like Batman, and sure, there are (intentional) parallels but Kate is a very different person from Bruce.
For one thing, broadly speaking, she has kind of had a pretty good relationship with her father - EG, he's proud of her choice of resigning from the Military. I *think* in the comics, he even approved of her decision to become Batwoman. However, he isn't an Alfred type, because broadly speaking, in the comics, he's a really pretty duplicitous, well b*stard. But everything he does is for his family and country. Even if, a lot of the times, he decides he knows better than both. - This is again another rich, great character that I'm looking forward to on the show.

Anyway, back to Kate. One of the big differences from Batman is, well, Kate's well, more... human. She's not just grr, rage, grr, vengeance, grr, dead parent, grr... All the time. Even after becoming Batwoman, she like... Tries to have a life, friends, dating, all that sort of things.

It's just, uh...

She... Kind of sucks at it. - Not Peter Parker levels of it, but, yeah, she's a bit of a dumpster fire at it. Which, again, is fun for a character to watch and read about.

In her guise as Batwoman, her sort of philosophy is along the lines of: She wasn't allowed to serve her country in Afghanistan, Iraq or what have you you in the military. So, she's going to fight her war to defend her home. She's more practically minded than Batman - She doesn't have a grand objection to using guns, for example. There's a phrase in a recent comic where she talks about, "9 times out of 10, I agree with Bruce's Number One rule. Then there's the 10th time...."
She is military minded, rules of engagement, that sort of thing and that's really what shapes her focus. Bruce, Bruce is on a crusade, he's fanatical. Kate... This is Kate's career. She's just swapped camoflauge for a batsuit and a bulletproof vest for a batcape.


So, yeah, as you can probably tell from this huge post, I'm very much a big fan of Kate Kane's Batwoman and I'm really looking forward to the show.

---------------

That's not to say I've not got a few concerns about decisions they've made so far and some inferences I've got from the trailer. But yeah, I think I'll talk about them another time....

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/05/21 18:18:49


 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

But will she become a lesbian vampire here too?

Thats what I want to know.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







I'm going to go with "no."

That's generally seen as one of the 'embarrassment all round' things.

Though it did result in a fun joke about it with Zatanna.

   
Made in us
Cabin Zombie






Yeah, in the comics she killed Clayface. He Had made a turn to the good guys and was working as part of Batman’s team until some villains messed with his head and he went out of control. She snipered him with a special anti-Clayface gun. So yeah, definitely less qualms of using guns and lethal force than Batman.

 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council




USA

I've always seen Batwoman as what you'd get if Huntress and Batman did the Fusion dance. She's got Huntress' methods for the most part mixed with a Batman-lite skill set. At least the modern version of the character.

I'm pretty sure there is an older version of Batwoman from the 50s who got thrown into the comics cause people were accusing Batman and Robin of having homosexual subtext, which makes her reemergence in 2006 as DC's first "openly gay" title heroine kind of hilarious.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Yes, that's the "Kathy Kane" I mentioned in my big giant post of doom.

This is them meeting



NB: I haven't read this comic.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




The trailer was bizarrely underwhelming and dull, and shouldn't have been.

The 'message' doesn't even seem empowering (and it really should have), it seems... normal and perfunctory. In a 'Ok, she's female, gay, and has short hair (and none of those facts are any more divisive or intriguing than the others), but you still need a hook and a plot.' Something vaguely resembling emotion would help as well, from literally anyone in the trailer.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







The way I see it, Elseworlds Part II was the real trailer.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Compel, thanks for posting that. I now know a lot more than I did before. Pretty cool stuff.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Norwich

Well from the trailer it's a solid skip for me at the moment like the rest of the CW DC stuff, far too hammy for me and even arrow sucked after season 3, I've watched the first season of Supergirl and it's meh, watched legends of tomorrow, meh, flash took a massive nose dive after season 1 and that was bad enough.

So batwoman just looks like more of the same bad writing, stories etc. That I've come to expect from CW.

If the trailers get better though I may risk season 1.

   
Made in us
Leader of the Sept






So the Red part of her costume is......so she is recognizable?
Still, Arrowverse has done a good job of putting DC heros that where B listers or even C listers in the spotlight so its likely to be good,
Yeah the Message is there, but with Supergirl tackling more of the Immigrant/ Political pressure I think its fine
Messages and things of that ilk are just gonna have to be something people are gonna have to learn to deal with, we are in that age.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




The casting choice seems good, but from the trailer, the show seems to be very "meh". Not bad, but not good either. It seems to be trying to cash in unto some social justice elements, but it seems more like a marketing gimmick to more then an engaged choice. I don't think Batwoman's gender or sexual orientation were ever more then details and not core characteristic. Social justice themes would be better served by, let say the X-men, Wonder Woman more than a member of the "Bat Family". Still, the show looks decently shot and has some production value. I might try an episode or two.
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council




USA

I feel like there's this conflicting dynamic with these things.

One camp thinks the best way to achieve their ideal is actively to engage the subject matter, whether it be sex, race, or whatever. Normalize whatever you're trying to promote or embrace by putting it front and center and exploring its qualities. Jessica Jones' Netflix run is probably a good example of this.

Another thinks the best way to achieve the same ideal, or something roughly similar, is to be more passive. Instead of actively engaging the subject, simply slot it into something where it's just a detail. Normalize it by not making a big deal of it at all. It's just a thing, why make a big deal out of it? Hikaru Sulu being shown with his husband and child in a "blink and you'll miss it" scene in Star Trek Beyond would be a good example of that.

I could see both approaches as having merits, but I think no matter which one you pick you'll have to deal with ranting haters of some type, uncritical supporters of another who aren't helping as much as they think they are, and people in the other camp who think you're being too heavy-handed/too disengaged. You can see this in Black Panther, where there was kind of a small fan war over whether or not the movie coped out on its themes (combined with arguing over what the themes of the movie were).

I think the trailer seems to fall into the latter camp, but it's hard to know how the subject matter will really be handled until the show is out. It is a dull trailer though I think on its face. I guess I might give it a few episodes just out of curiosity to see what way they go.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







I think her gender and sexuality is pretty core to who she is as a character, as well as, perhaps to a lesser extent, her religion (she and her father are Jewish, something I note, hasn't been mentioned in the advertising).

But I think, as a character those details are very important to her. - Which, admittedly, might be what you're saying, really. But it is very much a core to who Kate is and is as much of why she fights as Bruce's parents dying is why he fights.



But I do think I see what you're saying, her stories aren't necessarily about her gender or her sexuality, not like the X-Men stories are about racism, or the Green Arrow comics tend to be about social justice.

Broadly speaking, having a big gap in my Batwoman knowledge at the moment, because I'm waiting for "Batwoman by Greg Rucka" to be reprinted, I'd say Batwoman comics tend to be about her relationships with other characters. - I kind of find myself going back to Spider-man as an example again. Like, again I'm wanting to avoid spoilers, but Batwoman's character relationship with Alice is, in some ways, much more closely echoing Spidey's with Norman Osborn.

A Batman similarity would be something like Batman's history with Two-Face, particularly when you look at the recent Batwoman Rebirth run with a foe called the Knife.

That's sort of what, or at least from what I've read, the Batwoman comics are about, personal relationships. Except, perhaps the "Religion of Crime" which was her first major foe but even then, they were personally involved, targeting her.

"The Eighteenth beyond the calling of All Saints, sending his apostle to the land where dwells the lambs of the wise and foolish... Absent its Knight-Protector, the Apostle stakes his bloody claim, devouring the heart of the twice-named daughter of Kane."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/22 01:11:47


 
   
Made in us
Leader of the Sept






On the Black Panther, Personally I felt its themes that where the most prevalent was"The Past does not define us, We Define us" to me
But Going to the point, I feel as if both approaches have their Strengths and weaknesses
The former being that it does tackle those issues and rubs your noses in it. Like Supergirls recent stink with Alien Immigration and the episode showing just how someone is affected by immigration(I only saw up to episode 5 of season 4 so that is all I know. But you also risk alienating people who dont want that stuff and just want to watch tv.
The Latter being that it does normalize it, but that also, with marginalized groups still facing so many troubles, you just cant "Normalize it" because their experiances are so different from "Normal People" that they cannot be slotted into a role.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council




USA

 Compel wrote:
But I think, as a character those details are very important to her. - Which, admittedly, might be what you're saying, really. But it is very much a core to who Kate is and is as much of why she fights as Bruce's parents dying is why she fights.


Yes. I imagine how much attention particular details of her character matter probably shifts with whoever is writing her at the moment, like most comic characters.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

The former being that it does tackle those issues and rubs your noses in it. Like Supergirls recent stink with Alien Immigration and the episode showing just how someone is affected by immigration(I only saw up to episode 5 of season 4 so that is all I know. But you also risk alienating people who dont want that stuff and just want to watch tv.
The Latter being that it does normalize it, but that also, with marginalized groups still facing so many troubles, you just cant "Normalize it" because their experiances are so different from "Normal People" that they cannot be slotted into a role.


Probably a good way of putting the downsides.

And of course, I can't ignore the third camp which is the stupid people who aren't nearly as clever as they think they are and manage to completely botch the job and it becomes more insulting than anything. The Predator's handling of autism would be my first choice for stand out example, if only because it was recent and particularly egregious. I feel Supergirl sometimes steered into this as well at points in the first and second season (which is part of why I didn't watch the third or fourth).

Let us hope Batwoman doesn't end up that way, cause then no one is going to be happy XD

   
Made in au
[MOD]
Cutting stuff up and bunging it back together in new and interesting ways.






Under the couch

While I get the whole 'wanting to be recognisable' justification, the suit looks infinitely better on her without the wig...


Will be one to check out. While Arrow has certainly been a bit of a mixed bag, it's mostly at least been entertaining, even if some of the actual story arcs have been meh. And will be interesting to see which other characters they introduce along the way.

 
   
Made in gb
Wicked Warp Spider





Like I said in the locked post not sure Ms Rose can carry it, then again most of the CW supers had wobbly starts

And whilst they are aimed at different audiences will be interesting to see how another 'mask punchs evil' show stacks up against the deconstruction of Watchman or The Boys

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/22 06:52:00


"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in us
Potent Grey Knight Librarian





Fort Worth, TX

I guess my biggest question is, why can't we have a modern day Batman TV series with all these characters in it for a Batman-verse? Why create a show that takes place in Gotham, and then make up some excuse why Batman isn't there? And, just as importantly, if Batman isn't in Gotham, what about Batman's villains? Do the Joker, Riddler, etc. all take the night off with Batman on vacation?

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
 
Forum Index » Geek Media
Go to: