Modifiers and Psycic / Leadership tests

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**Type40**

First, for psycic tests,
If a unit conveys +1 or -1 to the test i.e. sisters of battle or greyknight psycic hood, is perils of the warp still triggered on an unmodified dice roll of double sixes or double ones, if so, why ? if it is always
Dice roll > re-rolls > modifiers > abilities .

Second for morale tests
If an ability conveys -1 to a leadership test i.e. Inspire Fear stratagem from custodes. Is an an oponent able to re-roll a roll matching their leadership + lost models .
i.e. some unit with They Shall Know no Fear for some reason has a leadership of 6, they lost one model. Meaning a 6+ will cause them to fail their moral test. They have been affected by Inspire Fear. They rolled a 5. Meaning after modifiers they will fail this test but before modifiers they have passed. Do they get to re-roll the save ? (I am confused due to the rulling on lost units not being considered a modifier).

Edit: clarified example

**DeathReaper**

Type40 wrote:
First, for psycic tests,
If a unit conveys +1 or -1 to the test i.e. sisters of battle or greyknight psycic hood, is perils of the warp still triggered on an unmodified dice roll of double sixes or double ones, if so, why ? if it is always
Dice roll > re-rolls > modifiers > abilities .

Yes only on a double 1 or a double 6.

A -1 Modifier will not magically make a double 6 not a double six, though it will make it an 11 and not a 12.

You do not modify the individual dice, so if you rolled a 2 and a 1 with the same -1 modifier, you get a total of 2, but this does not turn the 2 into a 1, it just modifies the result (Which was 3, but modified to a two).

Battle Primer Page 4 wrote:If you roll a double 1 or a double 6 when taking a Psychic test, the psyker immediately suffers Perils of the Warp.

**Type40**

Just weird wording,
because supercharge on plasma also says "a roll of a 1" and modifiers effect it.

but in terms of RAI this makes sense, in terms of RAW it is confusing when compared to similar syntax

**BaconCatBug**

Type40 wrote:
Just weird wording,
because supercharge on plasma also says "a roll of a 1" and modifiers effect it.

but in terms of RAI this makes sense, in terms of RAW it is confusing when compared to similar syntax

Because it doesn't say "a roll of one irrespective of modifiers". The rule requiring a double 1 or double 6 doesn't care what the final result of the roll is.

**Aash**

Type40 wrote:
Just weird wording,
because supercharge on plasma also says "a roll of a 1" and modifiers effect it.

but in terms of RAI this makes sense, in terms of RAW it is confusing when compared to similar syntax

I agree, the similar wording is confusing, but the way I keep it clear in my head is in the case of plasma overcharge, you modfiy the roll, so the end result is a 1, which means the overcharge rule applies. When you modify a psychic test you are modifying the roll too, but not either of the individual dice. You are modifying the whole roll so if you roll two 6s and modify it to 11 or 13 ( +/-1) the result is still a double 6, but now the total is either 11 or 13, not 12, so the perils rule applies.

**Type40**

Aash wrote:
Type40 wrote:
Just weird wording,
because supercharge on plasma also says "a roll of a 1" and modifiers effect it.

but in terms of RAI this makes sense, in terms of RAW it is confusing when compared to similar syntax

I agree, the similar wording is confusing, but the way I keep it clear in my head is in the case of plasma overcharge, you modfiy the roll, so the end result is a 1, which means the overcharge rule applies. When you modify a psychic test you are modifying the roll too, but not either of the individual dice. You are modifying the whole roll so if you roll two 6s and modify it to 11 or 13 ( +/-1) the result is still a double 6, but now the total is either 11 or 13, not 12, so the perils rule applies.

Good way of thinking about it,
I will adopt this method as well

thanks

**Aash**

Second for morale tests
If an ability conveys -1 to a leadership test i.e. Inspire Fear stratagem from custodes. Is an an oponent able to re-roll a roll matching their leadership + lost models .
i.e. some unit with They Shall Know no Fear for some reason has a leadership of 6, they lost one model. Meaning a 6+ will cause them to fail their moral test. They have been affected by Inspire Fear. Meaning after modifiers they will fail this test. Do they get to re-roll the save ? (I am confused due to the rulling on lost units not being considered a modifier).

As re-rolls are applied before modifiers, then no re-roll would be allowed. This is the same situation as with hit modifiers and re-rolls. Be careful of the exact wording of the rule though, does it say that this is a morale test modifier (in which case, no re-roll since the modifier is applied after checking for re-rolls) or does it say the target unit suffers -1 to their leadership stat (in which case they would get the re-roll because the leadership stat is changed before you make the roll).

EDIT:
I misread your initial situation, if the unit taking the morale test would have failed it before applying the modifier it gets the re-roll. The modifier in this case means that if they fail the re-roll they would lose 2 models not 1.

**Type40**

I was aiming to get the first answer you provided, I realize now I didn't write what roll the hypothetical person made .

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Definitely clears things up for me

Thanks all