Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It's been buzzing around so let's talk about it in this format too. What do you think about using Mantic miniatures (or some high percentage of them) in your armie(s)?

Should it be a requirement? Some incentives? Only if you want to?
Do you think Mantic is going about this the right way or do you have a suggestion?

Currently sitting at a dead tie with 1 vote for each

My quick answers:

What do you think about using Mantic miniatures (or some high percentage of them) in your armie(s)?
I always appreciate it, and would like to make a Mantic-centric army some day. Frankly it most depends on Mantic upping the quality of their materials. I've tried several times to build my Mantic stockpiles and it's nearly impossible for me - I have like 4-5 sets of Dreadball Kalyshi but gave up after trying to work with the first chick. I am heartened to see more resin from them, and am pumped to get my hands on the Stuntbot.

Should it be a requirement?
No. Mantic doesn't have the capacity to cover the range of units that make KOW's internal balance so good. Also I'd have to stop playing KOW if this was somehow enacted. As a hobbyist first, having my creative choice of manufacturer valued has been really nice, as opposed to the scorn most GW Lifers toss out at times.

Some incentives?
Sure, I'm always happy to see that. Barring people from winning Best Painted is a thing - but only really tenable if you make Player's Choice still open to all models. The more bonuses or limits you place on Mantic-only, the more you'll see army comp warp to match what's available. There are plenty of factions with limited Mantic support in general or missing key units which would be unavailable in a Mantic-only meta.

Do you think Mantic is going about this the right way or do you have a suggestion?
Mantic has been very smart about it ... and let's face it, couldn't stop us from using non-Mantic models if they wanted to. Just like GeeDub can't stop you from using non-GW models in your games if you don't play in their (tiny and rare!) stores or at their (very few!) events. I think a great many of us want to use Mantic minis, but are hindered by selection or quality. Both of which Mantic is actively working on.

I'll put it out there: I'd most like to make a Mantic army so I can give the company more money! You can only buy so many Mantic books before there just aren't any more books to buy.

I moved to KOW rules years ago, even before AOS. WHFB rules just became so bloated, extensive, confusing, unbalanced, etc., etc.

I have many full GW and Mantic armies. Sure, some of the Mantic minis suffer a bit in quality, but it is like any design - you have to like the aesthetic nature of the design and some of Mantic's stuff moves away from the norm, so it is not for everyone.

I have been selling off most of my GW stuff (with a few exceptions that were gifts), but that's because I'm fed up with GW. I would be adding rather than replacing if I only wanted to support Mantic.

I will admit that I feel an urge to scoff at not Mantic KoW armies, which is a bad thing.
The current welcoming attitude is so much better for the game.
Games are better off the more people play them, so even a KoW player who literally hasn't spent a cent on a Mantic product is good for business

I don't mind mantic miniatures but i don't think it should be a requirement at all. Don't really know about incentives

For one thing for me, part of my interest in KoW comes from the ability in the game to have historical armies, which mantic doesn't make at all. I know the historicals are far from their main focus but i like that i have that option.

I also like seeing the wide variety of creative alternatives and dioramas that people have come up with, whether they're mantic based or not.

I've got a small force of nature/trident realm and i like them (especially for all the otters that come with the set) but I don't want that to be my only option

When I started mini gaming [sometime in the late 70s, about the late Mezozoic period ], the practice was you the player decided what company's figures you used in a game. None of this propritary BS that Greed Workshop has successfully imposed on the market. As such, I still use what I please and so my armies are rather mixed since when I started, Citadel was mainly trash or obscure Fiend Folio monsters, so my purchases were from Ral Partha (currently Ironwind under the new owner). Still, there's GW product, and bits and bobs from various defunct companies from the 80s. My most recent purchases were Mantic Mega-armies, Abyssal Dwarfs and regular ones plus assorted characters and boxes for each to fill gaps. So those armies are more uniform, but even they have non-Mantic figures as Mantic does not produce everything in the army lists. (More so the Abyssal Dwarfs than the Dwarfs.)

So I'm for open choice like it used to be. Especially when it encourages creativity. For example, what the various Trident Realms players have come up with is great!

Yeah, I suppose this is only relevant in organised play, because everyone is free to do what they want everywhere else.

But as others have said, they don't currently offer the full range of what they have rules for. I think they would have to be mad to try to support all units for which the currently have rules, and frankly, I am in a position where I don't really intend to buy much more. I have a lifetime's worth of stuff to paint, and anything I do want to add from now is for the coolness/uniqueness factor. No particular interest in being asked to buy a whole new army especially of generic grunts to play with rules I also pay for.

Like Scythe, all my wants for KoW are for uniqueness.

When I first got interested, it was because WHFB was in its death throes, and I liked the idea. Bought a few Elf boxes--because it was just Elves, Dwarves, or Undead back then--and immediately found nobody else played it.

When my interest sat back up again, KoW suddenly had rules for all my old WHFB armies, so no need to buy a second lot of not-Warriors of Chaos or not-Lizardmen. Still nobody around here plays it, but can't win everything.

But I was taken by Nightstalkers, which at the time had no models, so I had to improvise a little. If I was to get back into it, would I buy from the current range? Big 'no idea' on that front given my investment in proxies, but it's possible; I didn't buy a 2k army's worth of stand-in models, but it might look odd mixing the two.

That said, if they were to release models for a different force I like? I'd probably be tempted. Sure, GW might already have them, but KoW isn't their game, and given the option I'll support Mantic. The issue really is having that option there before I have to go and invest in various "somethings" to play with in the mean time. "Somethings" which can get expensive and endearingly thematic--enough so I might not want to replace them with the 'proper' ones when they arrive.

I voted for "I already have fantasy armies", but this answer needs some nuance.

As I think Mantic is doing a great job, I'm firmly in favour of supporting them and buying their minis.

That said, a 90% Mantic army is (IMHO) not realistic. Even if you play an army that Mantic has a full range of; I don't want to limit myself hobby-wise to just Mantic miniatures.
For instance, take my swamp things (rules for Abyssals) army. https://kingsofwarvince.business.blog/2018/12/22/post-cok-19-reconstucting-a-broken-army/ and https://kingsofwarvince.business.blog/2018/12/03/1500-points-of-abyssals-a-2017-project/.

This army has a majority of Mantic models, but not 90%. (The gargoyles, Chroneas and efreet are Citadel and Pathfinder minatures) and I doubt I ever will increase to 90% Mantic. Let's face it, Mantic has some fantastic models (Ghouls, Zombies, Edge of the Abyss resin characters), but also some *meh* models. (The goblin spitter models come to mind).

At some point, I might increase my goblin detachment (https://kingsofwarvince.business.blog/2019/01/15/the-curious-case-of-my-goblin-detachment-2/) to a 1,000 point army. If I do so, I doubt I will buy new Mantic Goblins for my rank and file since I'm sick of the mono-pose goblins of dubious quality that make up the boxed set. The special stuff, (mincer, the Vanguard stuff) is much better in quality and I'd like to have some more of these. That said, these models get expensive quickly, so you get what you pay for.

On top of that, Mantic doesn't make the whole line for all the armies in Mantica and neither should they. There's plenty of room in the Minature market for multiple producers and styles and I think Kings of War is a better game then Age of Sigmar since it actively works together with more than one manufacturer. (The Uncharted empires book shows not only Mantic's own miniatures, but also Fireforge and other manufacturers.) I think Mantic purposely doesn't make human models (excluding their own Basilean line), as there's other minature manufacturers who do and it's much easier to cooperate -and make a better game- than to force the competitors out by some arbitrary rules.

So, kuddo's to Mantic for not enforcing such a rule.

I still feel burnt by the Orc regiment box I bought 5? years ago.

I will stick with buying Mantic by the sprue and not by the box unless I have a reason to do otherwise, so no Mantic KoW armies for me there.

I play KoW in 15mm, so I guess my answer is not entirely fair, I do play Vanguard in 28+mm though, and the only Mantic models I use are the zombies.

I do use the Warhammer armies I've got, but I have purchased (and started to build) a forces of the abyss army from mantic. Great miniatures. I also intend to flesh out my Northern Alliance vanguard mini's into a full army when they get a full release.

For armies I already have, like goblins, i don't see any reason to replace what I have for something similar. But when mantic bring out unique model ranges then I fully support them.

I buy mantic models purely based on whether I like them and think they are good value. For some of the models, this is absolutely the case and so I am happy to buy them. Particularly the Undead range, I really like their infantry so I bought a bunch of them. But GW had better skeletal knights, so I picked up their skele-cav instead. Also used GW character models instead of buying Mantic ones generally apart from Morgoth who I liked the look of.

Similarly, I like the look of some of their Forces of Nature stuff, and will likely pick it up, but will use GW or Privateer stuff for the rest.

KoW is attractive to me because I can use pretty much all of my armies in KoW in some form or another, which lets me use the entire collection of fantasy minis I own in one game.

I'm converting my VC into KOW undead at the moment. Even when I played them in WHFB I used Ghouls and Zombies from Mantic. Nowadays Mantic fullfills all my miniature needs (KOW, Vanguard, Deadzone, StarSaga, DungeonSaga) except for Dropzone Commander. The company already cost me a fortune and I will continue buying their stuff. I like the fantasy design by Mantic so much better than the 80s Heavy Metal cover art from GW. I really like their classic approach on fantasy. And their Deadzone/Warpath range is much more original than their grimdark-just-put-more-skulls-on pendants.
But I still own a lot of GW models and I will continue to use them in KOW. Character models, grave guard, etc. and I use other manufacturers too.

I got into KOW because of the Orc miniatures. Though I got into KOW before WHFB I collect GW Orcs and want to use them for KOW and WHFB.

I have a Mongolian force from Fireforge which I use the KoM list. I would really like to do a more fantasy army using all Mantic minis, if for no other reason than to show my support for the company. I do like the look of their Element units and Salamanders. If they brought out more Salamander units I would happily build a force of them using all their models.

Every mini in my TR army is Mantic except for several units they don't produce: Nokken, Depth Horrors and Knuckers. I have lots of GW Dwarves, Wood Elves and Empire/Brettonians that still need to be multibased.
I bought a bunch of Force of Nature from a good chap who needed cash but I think my next armies will be Abyss and Northern Alliance. I got a good start on both armies from the Vanguard KS>

I'm a Fantasy player convert so I still use some GW models but slowly everything is being converted to KoW models. I prefer my money goes to making the game I play better.

So, i just got some lord of the rings harad figures from ebay that i intend to use for both lotr and for a kingdoms of men army (hopefully) so i guess i'm moving even further away from using mantic miniatures!

Ah well

I'm in a tough spot on this one. My brother in law and I used to play KoW, but he has since moved away and my work schedule (two jobs and three teenagers) means I have no time for pick up games at the FLGS. The FLGS supports most systems (40K, AOS, Warmachines/Hordes, Monsterpocalypse, Guildball, Warcry, Kill Team and others), but stopped supporting Mantic years ago. Mantic burn out and the resurgence of GW. Some of the Mantic figures are good, some are great, but most are okay to poor. I like the rules even though the 2ed. kickstarter issues were a mess to me.

I think Mantic started as a great substitute for GW models. Cheap, fits the same concepts and widely available.

Now however, the models are not as cheap ( no longer in the Insta-buy price range). while still considerably less expensive than GW equivilants, the style and skill of the sculpts still make them a lower tier in my eyes.

The models are being "Forced" to fit rather than intuitively fitting. Take the Giant for instance, They made him modular to try and get multiple army big guys out of the one sculpt. Add a different head and you have a big guy for the demon army, different head for the Norse army, but if you have two armies facing off against each other its clear they are the same kit. I get the idea that they have to cover multiple lines and these are simple ways of covering the model range while limiting their costs to develop, but it has just become "cheap" and not in the good way to me.

The availability has also dropped to almost hard to find. Without ordering straight from Mantic the only things I can find locally are the terrain crates. I live in St. Louis, MO which has a huge gaming community and is home to Miniaturemarkets retail store (10-15 minute drive from my house). I have 5 FLGS within 30 minutes of my house, possibly more as there have been a few open and close over the years, but at least 5 that stock selections of GW, PP and other systems, but

No it should not be required. Part of the allure of the game is using whatever models you want. I dont play any game that forces me to use a certain model line.

I only got back into whfb back in 6th ed because of mantic (I played 3rd ed with wood elves and only stopped because that army was stolen).

Sure, their elves are spindly - but elves aren't meant to be stocky - and at the time, model size wasn't important, model BASE size was.
The archers and spears were all on 20mm square bases. That was all that was important. I got the core of a 2000pt army for 6th out of a mantic box.

As it stands, the core spears and archers are mantic, but the cavalry, war machines, Heavy hitting infantry, monsters, and a couple of other units are GW. All the base sizes are appropriate to both WHFB and KoW (I don't play AoS).

I have dabbled in historicals, and limiting yourself to one maker in that scene is something that almost no-one does.

I have 5 (technically 6 but the Gobbos are for my Ogres) <antic Mega Armies. Meh. They're the older models and a fair amount of restic and metal so TBH I would just buy from whatever company now, especially as Mantic are no longer particularly cheap.>

I really like the newer Mantic models, but as previous posters have said, their pricing has increased too.

Partially it's understandable (we want a more professional game), but it runs the risk of alienating the customers, some who came over because of the cheap miniatures.

That said, while some of the models are really nice, the older sculpts aren't. (looking at you, goblins) and they sell for the same price....

 vince1248 wrote:
I really like the newer Mantic models, but as previous posters have said, their pricing has increased too.

Partially it's understandable (we want a more professional game), but it runs the risk of alienating the customers, some who came over because of the cheap miniatures.

That said, while some of the models are really nice, the older sculpts aren't. (looking at you, goblins) and they sell for the same price....

i actually did not notice until now, but you guys are right, over the years they DID increase their prices to a point where I would not consider them "cheap" anymore. To be honest I'd rather have a cheap alternative that really top-notch models but I might be in the minority. If they beat 90's GW models then I am happy quality-wise. But the price right now is no reason for me to NOT buy them.

To the general question of use of mantic models:
I find it great and like Mantic very much for their decision that you can use different models. I backed the 28mm Fauns kickstarter which I will also use for KoW (mostly Vanguard) and probably would not have thought about much it if it weren't "allowed".
I use old WHFB models for most armies, the only models that I specifically bought from mantic so far are the vanguards for Nightstalkers, Basileans, Abyssals and Northern Alliance as well as the KoW starter set for Forces of Nature (which were a bargain when I bought them) and the Green Lady. But I expect that my Mantic collection will grow soon, I think I will get some Mercenaries and the Winggit. And some elementals probably...

The mega armies are still pretty major discounts.

Looking at, say Abyssals (a relatively new range), some of the prices are surprising. Cav are 10 for $40, plastic infantry are 20 for $30. But.. the mega army is $150 and has 90 plastic infantry, 10 restic infantry, 3 resin big boys, and essentially 11 metal elites.

They also run sales from time to time. but yeah, a lot of their stuff is no cheaper than anywhere else.

It’s more problematic for things like Thuul or Mummies where you’re looking at £40 a Regiment RRP.

Agree. 25 euro's for 10 plastic minis is quite too much. If they were the new quality models, I might be tempted, these older sculpts are simply not worth it.

As for mummies there's plenty of alternative out on the internet. Some other models, I like and am willing to pay the premium for.

I've still got the idea of eventually doing a KOW samurai army at some point. But I don't think I am as much of a fan of any full range of KOW models to use them exclusively in an army. I like bits of most of their armies however.

As someone who occasionally flirts the idea of buying into a Mantic game, I simply cannot get past the abysmal quality of most Mantic miniatures. I sold my Dungeon Saga Kickstarter the day after I received it I was so incredibly underwhelmed by the general lack of quality in the materials I received.

I've heard good things about their games/rules/mechanics...but if having Mantic miniatures was a requirement, I'd never play a single game. A couple times a year I start compiling a shopping list to start KoW, etc...and never once has that shopping list included Mantic stuff. :(

Despite my issues with prices, I am very happy with the quality of GW's plastic models. I've never been one to use third-party models because I feel like I'm buying is wrong.