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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




So I recently had a game that the necron player used tesla during the overwatch phase of my charge. Now I had a banner for -1 to hit for all shooting attacks. I understand that he would still hit me on the roll of a 6 but to my understanding he would not get tesla as he would need a 7 to do so. I let him do it but wanted to see if anyone else had an opinion on the subject. Do modifiers affect weapons with additional effects during overwatch?
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

Regardless of Modifiers, Overwatch always (and unless you have a special rule, ONLY) hits on a 6 on the dice. I'm not really familiar with Tesla, mind you, but of it applies some kind of penalty to hit, that penalty is still "ignored" for the purposes of Overwatch.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I understand the overwatch ignores the penalty. Tesla allows for 2 additional hits to be made when you a roll a 6+ to hit. That is the question do additional effects to place during overwatch without the penalty of the -1 to hit canceling them out.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Same way that rolling a 2 while overcharging plasma with a -1 to hit will cause it to overheat, even in overwatch.

In your example, he would not get Tesla because the -1 to hit caused the roll to be a 5. This is true of any time Tesla has a -1 to hit, including overwatch. It's simply how the game treats modifiers to rolls.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2019/06/06 16:56:03


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Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

3. Overwatch
Each time a charge is declared against a unit, the target unit
can immediately fire Overwatch at the would-be attacker.
A target unit can potentially fire Overwatch several
times a turn, though it cannot fire if there are any enemy
models within 1" of it. Overwatch is resolved like a normal
shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Charge
phase) and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is
always required for a successful hit roll, irrespective of the
firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers.

From the Battle Primer. Am I missing an FAQ somewhere that says Modifiers *do* apply to Overwatch? Cuz that says a 6, irrespective of BS or ANY modifiers.
   
Made in us
Xeno-Hating Inquisitorial Excruciator




MI

That just states the to hit roll needed is irrespective of modifiers. No where does it say that modifiers are ignored in regards to other factors, such as the triggering of abilities.
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

After consideration, you guys may be right. It's really a grey area though, since Overwatch seems to only consider the dice roll as is. If you roll a 6, and ignore modifiers, you get a hit. Then you gotta apply Modifiers to see if you get your "special rules", which isn't really outlined in the Overwatch rules.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Exactly as above.
It hits as a 6 was rolled. After modifiers, a 6 result did not occur.
   
Made in us
Xeno-Hating Inquisitorial Excruciator




MI

 flandarz wrote:
After consideration, you guys may be right. It's really a grey area though, since Overwatch seems to only consider the dice roll as is. If you roll a 6, and ignore modifiers, you get a hit. Then you gotta apply Modifiers to see if you get your "special rules", which isn't really outlined in the Overwatch rules.

Yeah, it admittedly is not well defined how such is supposed to work in Overwatch and could probably use a FAQ for clarification. Until then, the strict RAW reading would be to allow effects to still trigger based on modifiers. As BCB already pointed out, we already have the precedent of overcharging Plasma still overheating on 2s in overwatch, showing that modifiers do come into play when considering effects besides hitting.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




"Each hit roll of 6+ with this weapon causes 3 hits instead of 1."

A -1 modifier and roll of a 6 would result in a successful hit (6 = hit in overwatch, regardless of modifiers) but no Tesla effect, as the 'hit roll' itself was a 5.

A more interesting question, imho, is the impact of My Will Be Done on Tesla weapons in overwatch. Clearly a roll of a 6 is a hit, and potentially gets the tesla special effect. But what about a roll of 5? The shot itself is a miss because the +1 modifier from My Will Be Done has no impact on a hit or miss for overwatch. However, the 'hit roll' is a 6+. So the effect should still occur, just like plasma on the roll of a 2 and a -1 modifier. But the wording of the effect is that the weapon causes 3 hits instead of 1. Well, we don't have 1 hit to start with, we have 0. We're being told we get 3 hits instead of a thing we don't already have. I think the way to play this is 0 hits, but the wording isn't clear at all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/06 18:53:20


 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Orbei wrote:
"Each hit roll of 6+ with this weapon causes 3 hits instead of 1."

A -1 modifier and roll of a 6 would result in a successful hit (6 = hit in overwatch, regardless of modifiers) but no Tesla effect, as the 'hit roll' itself was a 5.

A more interesting question, imho, is the impact of My Will Be Done on Tesla weapons in overwatch. Clearly a roll of a 6 is a hit, and potentially gets the tesla special effect. But what about a roll of 5? The shot itself is a miss because the +1 modifier from My Will Be Done has no impact on a hit or miss for overwatch. However, the 'hit roll' is a 6+. So the effect should still occur, just like plasma on the roll of a 2 and a -1 modifier. But the wording of the effect is that the weapon causes 3 hits instead of 1. Well, we don't have 1 hit to start with, we have 0. We're being told we get 3 hits instead of a thing we don't already have. I think the way to play this is 0 hits, but the wording isn't clear at all.
MWBD does allow Tesla to happen on a 5 in overwatch despite missing. Even if we use the "RaI" argument, precedent via the Smoke Launcher FAQ proves you can replace something that doesn't happen or is impossible.

Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294 +++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
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Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Orbei wrote:
"Each hit roll of 6+ with this weapon causes 3 hits instead of 1."

A -1 modifier and roll of a 6 would result in a successful hit (6 = hit in overwatch, regardless of modifiers) but no Tesla effect, as the 'hit roll' itself was a 5.

A more interesting question, imho, is the impact of My Will Be Done on Tesla weapons in overwatch. Clearly a roll of a 6 is a hit, and potentially gets the tesla special effect. But what about a roll of 5? The shot itself is a miss because the +1 modifier from My Will Be Done has no impact on a hit or miss for overwatch. However, the 'hit roll' is a 6+. So the effect should still occur, just like plasma on the roll of a 2 and a -1 modifier. But the wording of the effect is that the weapon causes 3 hits instead of 1. Well, we don't have 1 hit to start with, we have 0. We're being told we get 3 hits instead of a thing we don't already have. I think the way to play this is 0 hits, but the wording isn't clear at all.
MWBD does allow Tesla to happen on a 5 in overwatch despite missing. Even if we use the "RaI" argument, precedent via the Smoke Launcher FAQ proves you can replace something that doesn't happen or is impossible.


...a line of reasoning you’ve presented and had refuted before.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

 BaconCatBug wrote:
MWBD does allow Tesla to happen on a 5 in overwatch despite missing. Even if we use the "RaI" argument, precedent via the Smoke Launcher FAQ proves you can replace something that doesn't happen or is impossible.


We had this before. You cant get 3 hits instead of 1 if you dont get the 1 hit in the first place. A roll of 5 does not hit in overwatch.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/06 19:21:25


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






MWBD would however counter out any -1 to hit penalties that would be negating your tesla so its still good.

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