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Trying to get to a list that works, this is an attempt at improving upon a previous revision, and correcting the low model count issue. Not really trying to be competitive but every list I write seems to be so hoping other people can help vet my flaws. My existing army is Black Legion, this is my latest attempt. planning on using the Master of Posession to summon the horrors because on a 4d6 roll of incursion it's a lot more likely. Idiotely when I posted this, and I hadn't updated it, I was planning on using the Chaos lord for rerolls on 1s for the heavy support (so I need to put him in the same detachment as the HS), and in local meta (maybe I should stop targetting this toon, but there's a GK player who's grandmaster dreadknight is 3+ invuln most of the time, so I was planning on using death hex to cancel that out. It's been recommended that I run multiple discolords to run up the board, but I don't have them, and that leaves me wondering if I should, and does my army really make sense if I'm running them?

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [43 PL, 10CP, 766pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

Legion [3CP]: Red Corsairs

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Soulforged Pack

+ HQ +

Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 160pts]: Autocannon, No Chaos Mark
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector

Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 160pts]: Autocannon, No Chaos Mark
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector

Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 160pts]: Autocannon, No Chaos Mark
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector

+ Troops +

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 75pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 76pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol
. 3x Marine w/ Chainsword
. Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 65pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
. 4x Marine w/ Chainsword

+ Elites +

Greater Possessed [4 PL, 70pts]
. Greater Possessed: No Chaos Mark

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [31 PL, 1CP, 660pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [1CP]

Legion: Alpha Legion

+ HQ +

Master of Possession [5 PL, 98pts]: Force stave, Incursion, Infernal Power, No Chaos Mark

+ Heavy Support +

Havocs [7 PL, 176pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Flamer
. 4x Havoc w/ lascannon: 4x Lascannon

Havocs [7 PL, 156pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Flamer
. 4x Havoc w/ missile launcher: 4x Missile launcher

Obliterators [12 PL, 230pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, 2x Obliterator

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [17 PL, , 282pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Council of Traitors [-1CP]

Dark Disciples [1 PL, 10pts]: 2x Dark Disciple

Detachment CP [1CP]

Legion: Black Legion

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 74pts]: 2. Indomitable, Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Mark of Nurgle, Warlord

Dark Apostle [5 PL, 100pts]: 6. First Among Traitors, Council of Traitors, Feculent Beseechment, Mark of Nurgle, Omen of Potency

Sorcerer [6 PL, 98pts]: 5. Trusted War-leader, Bolt pistol, Council of Traitors, Death Hex, Force stave, Mark of Tzeentch, Warptime

++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Chaos - Daemons) [20 PL, 290pts] ++

+ Troops +

Horrors [12 PL, 210pts]
. 30x Pink Horror

Horrors [8 PL, 80pts]: 10x Blue Horror, 10x Pair of Brimstone Horrors

++ Total: [111 PL, 11CP, 1,998pts] ++

This is everything I have

++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [127 PL, 2,376pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dark Disciples [1 PL, 10pts]: 2x Dark Disciple

Legion: Black Legion

+ HQ +

Abaddon the Despoiler [12 PL, 240pts]

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 100pts]: No Chaos Mark, Plasma pistol, Thunder hammer

Dark Apostle [5 PL, 100pts]: No Chaos Mark

Haarken Worldclaimer [6 PL, 115pts]

Master of Possession [5 PL, 98pts]: Force stave, No Chaos Mark

Sorcerer [6 PL, 98pts]: Bolt pistol, Force stave, No Chaos Mark

Sorcerer [6 PL, 98pts]: Bolt pistol, Force stave, No Chaos Mark

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 50pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 82pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Chainaxe, Plasma pistol
. 3x Marine w/ Chainsword
. Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

Chaos Space Marines [8 PL, 101pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
. 5x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon

+ Elites +

Greater Possessed [4 PL, 70pts]
. Greater Possessed: No Chaos Mark

Greater Possessed [4 PL, 70pts]
. Greater Possessed: No Chaos Mark

Helbrute [6 PL, 120pts]: Missile launcher, No Chaos Mark, Twin lascannon

+ Fast Attack +

Chaos Spawn [2 PL, 25pts]: Chaos Spawn, No Chaos Mark

Chaos Spawn [2 PL, 25pts]: Chaos Spawn, No Chaos Mark

Chaos Spawn [2 PL, 25pts]: Chaos Spawn, No Chaos Mark

+ Heavy Support +

Havocs [7 PL, 116pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Flamer
. 4x Havoc w/ autocannon: 4x Autocannon

Havocs [7 PL, 176pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Flamer
. 4x Havoc w/ lascannon: 4x Lascannon

Havocs [7 PL, 156pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Flamer
. 4x Havoc w/ missile launcher: 4x Missile launcher

Havocs [7 PL, 156pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Flamer
. 4x Havoc w/ reaper chaincannon: 4x Reaper chaincannon

Obliterators [18 PL, 345pts]: No Chaos Mark, 3x Obliterator

++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Chaos - Daemons) [12 PL, 150pts] ++

+ Troops +

Horrors [12 PL, 150pts]
. 10x Blue Horror
. 10x Pair of Brimstone Horrors
. 10x Pink Horror

++ Total: [139 PL, 2,526pts] ++

A couple of changes I'd make I don't think you need the black legion council of traitors. It's 300 points that only buffs itself and won't really help elsewhere.

Also I presume you're planning on summoning the pink horrors, which can be a bit of a pain.

I would make a few changes.

1) drop supreme command and greater possessed (he won't keep up with LDs). 352 points freed up.

2) Change Tzeentch detachment to a battalion: Fateskimmer (to keep up with LDs and buff horrors). Changling, if you make LDs mark of tzeentch they'll be +1Str and 6+++. Make horrors 2x20 and put in deepstrike and add 10x brimstones. 540 points total.

3) 100 points leftover to add 3rd oblit. You'd have to change up some options on the missle launcher havocks (maybe 2 missle 2 autocannon) to get points right or maybe change fateskimmer for flux master?

4) with the extra CP make tzeetch herald your warlord with impossible robe and daemonspark. Give one LD extra warlord trait from the soulforged detachment for extra movement.

More CP, more bodies, more durable LDs and horrors and more damage output.

hmm... sounds interesting, concerns, I don't have the daemon codex, but I can pick that up. I was planning on using the Master of Posession to summon the horrors because on a 4d6 roll of incursion it's a lot more likely. Idiotely when I posted this, and I hadn't updated it, I was planning on using the Chaos lord for rerolls on 1s for the heavy support, and in local meta (maybe I should stop targetting this toon, but there's a GK player who's grandmaster dreadknight is 3+ invuln most of the time, so I was planning on using death hex to cancel that out. Should I keep the Master of Posession?

updated the original post a bit to contain more of reasonings and also my full list of what I currently have built

Well the Lord Discordants work really well with daemon heralds, spells and auras. And since you were going for horrors I thought a tzeentch version might work best. You could tweek the AL to have a second battalion there and take a sorcerer to cast death hex. And just take a tzeentch daemon patrol of 20 horrors and a fateskimmer.

That said you don't have to run it that way, a black legion devastation battery could work really well. Since you don't have the lord discordants you could try that instead?

The strat to give a unit all chaos marks would work well on 3 oblits, using 2-3 sorcerers. Would also buff Abbadon after they are gone. You probably just need more cultists to make it work. 2 blobs of 30 would work well with Abbadon, give you board control and screen for havocs and oblits.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Could run something on these lines:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [50 PL, 9CP, 911pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Council of Traitors [-1CP]

Dark Disciples [1 PL, 10pts]: 2x Dark Disciple

Detachment CP [5CP]

Legion: Black Legion

+ HQ +

Abaddon the Despoiler [12 PL, 2CP, 240pts]: Warlord

Dark Apostle [5 PL, 100pts]: 5. Trusted War-leader, Benediction of Darkness, Council of Traitors, Mark of Tzeentch, Mutating Invocation

Sorcerer [6 PL, 98pts]: Bolt pistol, Council of Traitors, Death Hex, Force sword, Mark of Nurgle, Miasma of Pestilence, Warp Lord

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [9 PL, 150pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 29x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [9 PL, 150pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 29x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Space Marines [8 PL, 163pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Combi-plasma
. 7x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun
. Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [50 PL, , 989pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [1CP]

Legion: Black Legion

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Devastation Battery

+ HQ +

Master of Possession [5 PL, 98pts]: Cursed Earth, Force stave, Mutated Invigoration, No Chaos Mark, The Eye of Night

Sorcerer [6 PL, 98pts]: Bolt pistol, Force sword, Mark of Tzeentch, Prescience, Weaver of Fates

+ Heavy Support +

Havocs [7 PL, 116pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Flamer
. 4x Havoc w/ autocannon: 4x Autocannon

Havocs [7 PL, 156pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Flamer
. 4x Havoc w/ reaper chaincannon: 4x Reaper chaincannon

Havocs [7 PL, 176pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Flamer
. 4x Havoc w/ lascannon: 4x Lascannon

Obliterators [18 PL, 345pts]: No Chaos Mark, 3x Obliterator

++ Fortification Network (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [5 PL, 100pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Black Legion

+ Fortification +

Noctilith Crown [5 PL, 100pts]

++ Total: [105 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

 small_gods wrote:
Well the Lord Discordants work really well with daemon heralds, spells and auras. And since you were going for horrors I thought a tzeentch version might work best. You could tweek the AL to have a second battalion there and take a sorcerer to cast death hex. And just take a tzeentch daemon patrol of 20 horrors and a fateskimmer.

I am highly intrigued by the tzeentch/discolord list, I just wonder if it wouldn't be better to mix with other daemon engines likes venomcrawlers or defilers instead of havocs/oblits? basically I find myself wondering if it isn't just a completely different list. Is the list you suggested basically the list you'd recommend from the ground up? or ...

That said you don't have to run it that way, a black legion devastation battery could work really well. Since you don't have the lord discordants you could try that instead?

The strat to give a unit all chaos marks would work well on 3 oblits, using 2-3 sorcerers. Would also buff Abbadon after they are gone. You probably just need more cultists to make it work. 2 blobs of 30 would work well with Abbadon, give you board control and screen for havocs and oblits.

I've changed 1 thing, I made the havoc aspiring champions carry combi-bolters instead of flamers, this way they might actually get to use them, also makes them a little cheaper... but that doesn't really matter here.

Yeah possibly, would work a little better with a heavy daemon engine list. Lists that work well usually tailor themselves to be mostly vulnerable to one type of attack e.g. knights don't care about lots of anti infantry or plaguebearer hoards don't care about lots of anti tank. In that way, as most people will take a mix of both types of weapon, a lot of their attacks are really inefficient.

Most tournament topping lists follow this theme. So lots of lists with 100+ guardsmen or 90 plaguebearers, lots of knights or eldar flyer lists.

I generally play tournaments with lots of daemon troops and either AL gunlines or thousand sons characters. Because of this and it works well.

So imo if you wanted to run lord discordants you'd be best served running them with other big tough stuff. Or if you're running havocs run a lot of other infantry that will give your opponent headaches.

Either way the new CSM is a different beast to what it was before and you should get better results out of them

That's good information. Thanks for the help


Automatically Appended Next Post:
decided I liked the idea of the tzeentch/disco-lords enough that I created another thread for it https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/776543.page