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2019/06/21 13:30:05
Subject: Frostgrave 2nd edition -Female plastic wizards Oct 2019
Well, the news has leaked, so I might as well go ahead and make an official announcement.
There will be a new edition of Frostgrave: Fantasy Wargames in the Frozen City coming from Osprey Games in June of 2020!
Why?
When I wrote Frostgrave nearly five years ago, it was my first real attempt at writing a wargame. Since that time, I have learned huge amounts about both game design in general and about Frostgrave in particular. I now feel that I can make the game significantly better. So, with the blessings of Osprey, I set out to do just that.
I had two main design goals:
1. Make the game more fun, not less.
2. Make the rules clearer, more balanced, and more streamlined, but not at the cost of #1.
For #1, I wanted to do two things. I wanted to make every spell in the game desirable and useful, and I wanted to increase the direct player interaction. The truth is, of the 80 spells in the game, there are about 20 that are never used, or at least never taken, because they are too weak or too specialized. I have gone through each spell one-by-one, tightening the wording, tweaking where necessary, changing the mechanics in others, and, in just a few cases, replacing spells with new ones. As I did this work, I concentrated on how these spells could, and would, be used by players to interrupt and interfere with the plans of their opponents. I wanted to increase the back-and-forth nature of the game, making each scrap for treasure an opportunity for a real magical duel.
For #2, I wanted to improve the whole experience of players, from reading the book and learning to play the game to running a campaign. I wanted to eliminate a few things that never quite worked right, or led to strange, unwanted results, and I wanted to increase the balance, both during a game and over the course of a campaign. A lot of these rule changes will be immediately recognizable to people who have read Ghost Archipelago and The Maze of Malcor, but there are a few new ones as well.
I am still making a few tweaks here and there, but most of my work is actually done. While I don’t want to reveal too much at this very early date, I can say that there are no fundamental changes. The game is still its wacky, D20 self. The ten wizard schools remain in the same alignments. Most of the spells haven't changed. The goal is still to grab treasure, gain experience, and try not to get killed by other wizards or wandering monsters. Frostgrave never cared which figures you used before, as long as they made you happy, and it is not going to care in Second Edition either.
Is this going to make all of your existing Frostgrave books obsolete? No. I mean, the original rulebook probably won’t have much use anymore, but all of the supplements, with all of their optional rules, scenarios, new soldiers, new treasure, etc., will still be usable for Second Edition. There are few things that will need clarification, but not many, and I’ll post a PDF covering those when the time comes.
I will be revealing more as we get closer to the release date, but it is still a long way off, and I hope everyone will still play many games of Frostgrave before then without worrying about any changes. I mean, Perilous Dark is still to come out first, so that players can have lots of solo and co-operative fun, and I’ve got a Frostgrave Immersion Tour to attend!
So, more news coming later, but that’s all I’ve got for now.
P.S. You won’t be able to Leap off the table with treasure anymore…
note in the comments :
Phil Curran21 June 2019 at 05:19
Lovely jubbly. Will the Supplements need re-writing as well?
Reply
Replies
joe5mc21 June 2019 at 05:23
Nope. Just a few clarifications.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/09 16:28:59
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
June 2020 seems like an awful long way off for something that doesn't seem like a substantial update. Why announce it this early? (Also, it appears that Oathmark has been pushed to February as well)
I have a few hopes for this second edition:
1. Starter Set - Frostgrave has a rather substantial number of NorthStar plastic models to go with it now (including, I guess, female wizards coming next). I'd like to see a starter set that includes the book and maybe a wizard sprue and two soldier sprues - plus maybe some guidance on what an unsure, first time player might build with those sprues to make his first warband. I like that the game doesn't care which models you use, but it could really use a a starter set of some sort.
2. Unified Rules - I'd like to see the Frostgrave system more unified across the three (now four, with Frostgrave 2E) games. Before Malcor, Frostgrave was just different enough from Ghost Archipelago to make it confusing to switch between them. Malcor updated most of it, but then Rangers of the Shadow Deep comes out with its own variations. Similar enough that muscle memory kicks in, but different enough that you can screw up doing it. But Rangers does some things I'd like to see in Frostgrave 2E, but probably can't happen and still maintain compatibility with Ghost Archipelago and the 1E supplements.
3. Faction Rules - I like that the game doesn't force you to use specific models, but at the same time, if I'm making a warband full of barbarians, there should be something thematic I can do to make it feel different than playing a warband made up of cultists (or lizardmen, or elves, or pandas, or whatever). GA dabbles with this, allowing you to build your own tribes or Drichean civilizations, but Frostgrave could use some simple general purpose themes like "warrior warband", "evil warband", "holy warband" and so on.
Sqorgar wrote: June 2020 seems like an awful long way off for something that doesn't seem like a substantial update. Why announce it this early? (Also, it appears that Oathmark has been pushed to February as well)
He says it leaked, so I guess at that point you put out an accurate report of what your doing or there will be speculation that becomes internet fact all too easily
(I guess he could lie and deny it, or just ignore the questions but since he's active in the community that wouldn't really work)
@Sqorgar: Panda warband you say ....no seriously, I haven’t gotten into frostgrave yet, are there Pandas or are you just making fun of us Pandaphiles (Panda lovers not Panda Loooovers )?
LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13
I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14
Theophony wrote: @Sqorgar: Panda warband you say ....no seriously, I haven’t gotten into frostgrave yet, are there Pandas or are you just making fun of us Pandaphiles (Panda lovers not Panda Loooovers )?
The short answer is that Frostgrave doesn't have official panda army support, but you can use panda models if you have them.
The game doesn't really make a distinction about what models you use. Though there are official Frostgrave kits (no pandas), you can use whatever you want to play. So a soldier with a two handed weapon can be any type of soldier and any type of two handed weapons, whether it is a barbarian with a broad sword or a cultist with a two handed flail. So you can use whatever you want and it has the same rules (which is part of my complaint).
So, unfortunately, support for panda armies is implicit, but not explicit, and you'll need to find someone making panda army models yourself.
Edit: Some panda fun facts. Originally, pandas were considered a cross between a bear and a raccoon, but it turns out that pandas split from the bear line about 19 million years ago. The panda genus contains only 4 subspecies, three of which are extinct and of which the giant panda is considered a "living fossil".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/21 19:38:55
There are six panda figures at Darksword Miniatures ... Two of them are Red Pandas (the original panda actually).
Theophony wrote: @Sqorgar: Panda warband you say ....no seriously, I haven’t gotten into frostgrave yet, are there Pandas or are you just making fun of us Pandaphiles (Panda lovers not Panda Loooovers )?
There are six panda figures at Darksword Miniatures ... Two of them are Red Pandas (the original panda actually).
Theophony wrote: @Sqorgar: Panda warband you say ....no seriously, I haven’t gotten into frostgrave yet, are there Pandas or are you just making fun of us Pandaphiles (Panda lovers not Panda Loooovers )?
Thanks for that , though pandas with breasts (female red panda mage) just pushes it too far . I like pandas....a lot, but that seems wrong to me. I guess I’ll have to find one of the CMON Kickstarter exclusive pandas from Rising sun(I think), almost bought into it just for that model , to go with my panda from Mazus dreadful curse.
LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13
I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14
It's those old D&D minis of female dragonborn with breasts; Now that's disturbing.
Technically, Dragonborn are warm blooded, so the argument could be made that they are mammals rather than reptiles. There are several mammals that lay eggs (platypus, echidna) and even mammals with scales (armadillo, pangolin) - but there are no reptiles that are warm blooded. If you ask me, dragonborn are probably more like pangolins and... want to see something disturbing? That's pangolin boobs right there. You're welcome.
Applying principles of evolutionary biology to a race of mythical dragon-human hybrids seems kind of like a slippery slope you don't want to go down. Evolutionary speaking, it's rather impossible for something to be two things at once (like a griffon being a lion-eagle hybrid), so I suspect that if you drill down into their physiology, you'll find all sorts of impossibilities. It's probably best to just accept the Rule of Cool as a universal truth rather than an inconvenience.
Edit: And by the way, did you hear there's a 2nd edition of Frostgrave coming out? That's pretty cool.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/24 15:08:33
It's those old D&D minis of female dragonborn with breasts; Now that's disturbing.
Technically, Dragonborn are warm blooded, so the argument could be made that they are mammals rather than reptiles. There are several mammals that lay eggs (platypus, echidna) and even mammals with scales (armadillo, pangolin) - but there are no reptiles that are warm blooded. If you ask me, dragonborn are probably more like pangolins and... want to see something disturbing? That's pangolin boobs right there. You're welcome.
Well, technically reptiles are not a relevant category evolutionarily, as the same branch contain subgroups (like birds) that are not considered to be part of the group.
The simple fact that they are warm blooded hardly makes them mammals. Though as classifying them goes, we should of course infer what they are based on their anatomical features rather than vice versa, which I suppose would make them mammals when they display prominent mammary glands (of course hardly a feature of all mammals by the way). Or they are indeed a fairly nonsensical fantasy creature. Probably either of those.
Good thing they are warm-blooded though, as I imagine a cold-blooded warband would do poorly in the frozen city of Frostgrave. (And we're back.)
While I like that the new edition apparently only replaces the core book, leaving all other supplements bought over the years intact in their value, it does seem odd not to include at least some of the new soldiers etc. in the updated book. After all, it is rather more convenient to play with a single book for reference, rather than a big pile of supplements. Then again, some of the things from the expansions were specifically tied to the campaign and scenarios from that book, so perhaps it becomes impossible to choose what to take or leave out.
At least this indicates the game is doing well enough to warrant a further investment from Osprey, which I'm glad to hear. Many hours of good fun were had playing the game, both in the original form and with various houserules to create something similar to what the new editions appears to be. Ghost Archipelago gave some interesting insights into what a reworked Frostgrave could be, so I wonder how much of that will be included, or altered, or expanded with yet unknown changes.
For the third time in three months, my FLGS was unable to order in any of the plastic Frostgrave wizards. Or female warriors. They did get a box of pirates, though. Barely.
The big change I want to see in Frostgrave 2nd edition is availability.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: For the third time in three months, my FLGS was unable to order in any of the plastic Frostgrave wizards. Or female warriors. They did get a box of pirates, though. Barely.
The big change I want to see in Frostgrave 2nd edition is availability.
From what I understand, Brigade Games is the official US distributor of North Star Miniatures, and you can order Frostgrave stuff from their website. Never done business with them, but I too am having trouble getting a hold of the plastic wizards (also thought I'd get some Oathmark stuff). Miniature Market carries the plastics - it's where I've gotten everything but the wizards - but doesn't keep a regular stock, so it is kind of a crapshoot what's available, and it sells out pretty quickly. Also, they've never had the wizard box (despite it being available for months).
I've gotten all of my Frostgrave stuff from various sellers on eBay. Sometimes it's even been cheaper to get them from UK sellers.
I may have some spare wizard sprues if you've got any spare board game minis laying around when I get home.
After we get the female wizards, I wonder what sort of models would be next in plastic? I've often pined for some sort of soldiers with a more Chinese or Korean style to their armor. Something different.
Also still wish we'd had giant snake bodies to put the snakemen torsos on, but I think that ship has sailed.
Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!
I'm not a fan of Brigade Games personally, but I would definitely go on eBay (particularly the .co.uk option...) and find them. I agree though, they're small time availability isn't helping. I think they're being smart though and not over-producing. They're still a relatively small time company/manufacturer.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I've gotten all of my Frostgrave stuff from various sellers on eBay. Sometimes it's even been cheaper to get them from UK sellers.
I may have some spare wizard sprues if you've got any spare board game minis laying around when I get home.
After we get the female wizards, I wonder what sort of models would be next in plastic? I've often pined for some sort of soldiers with a more Chinese or Korean style to their armor. Something different.
Also still wish we'd had giant snake bodies to put the snakemen torsos on, but I think that ship has sailed.
I've got a few items set aside, yes... Do you think Chaos Spawn tentacles would work as snake bodies? Or maybe horns from spare Ogre Kingdoms cattle skull standards?
And you know I'd be down for Asian themed minis. Or any fantasy minis that aren't GW-alikes, Greeks or Vikings, really.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thanks for the tips, guys! I'll start prowling MM and even risk eBay...depending on the outcome of any trades I might undertake with the Highlord.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/25 00:11:02
Elbows wrote: I'm not a fan of Brigade Games personally...
What's wrong with Brigade? I was thinking of doing an order from them soon.
I have not any problems with my three orders, but their shipping is high compared to other vendors. I would not have placed said orders except they were for Frostgrave Nickstarters and came with bonus goodies.
I mean, once the plastic female wizards are out, you know what would make sense, and work really well in a boxed starter, ruined terrain, maybe that's next on the plastic sprue list, actual Felstad scenics.
Elbows wrote: I'm not a fan of Brigade Games personally...
What's wrong with Brigade? I was thinking of doing an order from them soon.
It's been many years, but I just found their prices and shipping were high, service was slow etc. I don't recall exact details but they went on my "no thanks" list. Nothing criminal or untoward, just not a preferred vendor. This was maybe 5-6 years ago at least, so it may be better now. I know I was disappointed with some miniatures that they were selling as their own brand, so that may have been what soured me the most.
It's those old D&D minis of female dragonborn with breasts; Now that's disturbing.
Technically, Dragonborn are warm blooded, so the argument could be made that they are mammals rather than reptiles. There are several mammals that lay eggs (platypus, echidna) and even mammals with scales (armadillo, pangolin) - but there are no reptiles that are warm blooded. If you ask me, dragonborn are probably more like pangolins and... want to see something disturbing? That's pangolin boobs right there. You're welcome.
Applying principles of evolutionary biology to a race of mythical dragon-human hybrids seems kind of like a slippery slope you don't want to go down. Evolutionary speaking, it's rather impossible for something to be two things at once (like a griffon being a lion-eagle hybrid), so I suspect that if you drill down into their physiology, you'll find all sorts of impossibilities. It's probably best to just accept the Rule of Cool as a universal truth rather than an inconvenience.
Edit: And by the way, did you hear there's a 2nd edition of Frostgrave coming out? That's pretty cool.
Lighten up, little dude. It's a throw away comment about a silly D&D race made for the sort who just can't bring themselves to play a tiefling. Also, there is nothing 'cool' about either of these races.
It's those old D&D minis of female dragonborn with breasts; Now that's disturbing.
Technically, Dragonborn are warm blooded, so the argument could be made that they are mammals rather than reptiles. There are several mammals that lay eggs (platypus, echidna) and even mammals with scales (armadillo, pangolin) - but there are no reptiles that are warm blooded. If you ask me, dragonborn are probably more like pangolins and... want to see something disturbing? That's pangolin boobs right there. You're welcome.
Well, technically reptiles are not a relevant category evolutionarily, as the same branch contain subgroups (like birds) that are not considered to be part of the group.
The simple fact that they are warm blooded hardly makes them mammals. Though as classifying them goes, we should of course infer what they are based on their anatomical features rather than vice versa, which I suppose would make them mammals when they display prominent mammary glands (of course hardly a feature of all mammals by the way). Or they are indeed a fairly nonsensical fantasy creature. Probably either of those.
Good thing they are warm-blooded though, as I imagine a cold-blooded warband would do poorly in the frozen city of Frostgrave. (And we're back.)
While I like that the new edition apparently only replaces the core book, leaving all other supplements bought over the years intact in their value, it does seem odd not to include at least some of the new soldiers etc. in the updated book. After all, it is rather more convenient to play with a single book for reference, rather than a big pile of supplements. Then again, some of the things from the expansions were specifically tied to the campaign and scenarios from that book, so perhaps it becomes impossible to choose what to take or leave out.
At least this indicates the game is doing well enough to warrant a further investment from Osprey, which I'm glad to hear. Many hours of good fun were had playing the game, both in the original form and with various houserules to create something similar to what the new editions appears to be. Ghost Archipelago gave some interesting insights into what a reworked Frostgrave could be, so I wonder how much of that will be included, or altered, or expanded with yet unknown changes.
You too, other little dude, lighten up. Also dinosaurs were most likely warm blooded. Who says dragons and dragonborn would be *reptiles* instead of *dinosaurs*? Meh.
I do like the idea of a Frostgrave 1.5e even if it is called 2nd Edition.. And consolidation of the books would be a very useful thing, even if it was just as a pdf. Now if we can get those minis sculpted in something other than "heroic".( Read freakish) scale. Decent fantasy wizard minis are surprisingly rare. I do dislike that robes and gandalf look alike.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/26 04:57:02
Red Harvest wrote: Lighten up, little dude. It's a throw away comment about a silly D&D race made for the sort who just can't bring themselves to play a tiefling. Also, there is nothing 'cool' about either of these races.
We're on a forum for nerds. There's no such thing as a throw away comment about a silly D&D race.
Also dinosaurs were most likely warm blooded.
This is far from a solved debate. Based on my readings, it would seem virtually impossible for one of the larger dinosaurs (like the brachiosaurus) to be warm blooded due to the enormous constraints put on the heart (a warm blooded animal's heart beats five times faster than a cold blooded animal). However, arguments have been made that the smaller dinosaurs could've been warm blooded. It's possible that some dinosaurs were warm blooded and some were not, with a few million years of evolution between them to split the difference...
... Oh. Was that one of those throw away comments about a silly D&D race?
Who says dragons and dragonborn would be *reptiles* instead of *dinosaurs*? Meh.
Well, technically, dragons are mythological creatures born from magic, rather than an evolution of any animal - but originally, dragons were based on serpents. In fact, the origins of the word "dragon" actually mean serpent (or giant seafish), and the Western appearance of a dragon having four legs and looking more like a lizard is a relatively recent invention dating back to the High Middle Ages (roughly from 1000ad to 1250ad)...
To be honest, I'm not feeling them. I was hoping for female wizards that looked a little more female, a little more wizards. They have on such heavy robes that they look virtually indistinguishable from the male wizards - pretty sure that if you swapped their heads with male wizard heads, you wouldn't even notice they had female bodies outside of a slightly poofy chest.
I realize that they are fighting in a frozen city, so I'm not asking for a chainmail bikini or anything. I guess I just wanted something that was visually distinct from the male wizards. Something more feminine. The cut of the robe on the one reading the book is closer to what I'm interested in - it's still heavy layers, but it has a more unique look.
I thought their female soldiers were pretty good, so I'm surprised that I'm disappointed here. It could be the paint job though, since I don't remember being disappointed by the renders shown in the Lead Adventurers forum a week or two ago.
....no seriously, I haven’t gotten into frostgrave yet, are there Pandas or are you just making fun of us Pandaphiles (Panda lovers 
not Panda Loooovers 
)?
Deathwatch 
AdMech 
Necron
, though pandas with breasts (female red panda mage) just pushes it too far 
. I like pandas....a lot, but that seems wrong to me. I guess I’ll have to find one of the CMON Kickstarter exclusive pandas from Rising sun(I think), almost bought into it just for that model 
, to go with my panda from Mazus dreadful curse.
