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Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

So I just picked up the new Apocalypse marine set to bulk up my Primaris army.. just wondering what’s the best way to equip my Intercessors? Haven’t really played any games yet, so not sure what to do. I have 30 of em to build

Bolt Rifle, Auto Bolt Rifle, Stalker Bolt Rifle? Should I do 10 of each? Worth adding in the Aux grenade launchers?

In games is it better to keep em in units of 10, or are smaller units of 5 better?

I also have all of the models from the starter set, plus a primaris librarian and apothecary, so I think this oughta give me a good sized army now once I get it all built

   
Made in ca
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






In my opinion the bolt rifle is blatantly superior to the other variants. Now that bolter discipline exists there's no competition. The heavy variant is redundant now that eliminators exist. Auto bolt rifles are pretty weak overall too
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran



NE Ohio, USA

 Necros wrote:
Worth adding in the Aux grenade launchers?


Yes. The more dakka you throw at a target, the more saves they'll have to make. The more saves they make, the more chances of them failing. Target fails enough saves & .....
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule





The Standard Bolt Rifle is loads better than the others. It was superior before the new Rapid Fire bolt weapon rules, the others are a joke now.

Units of 5 are generally best, as Intercessors and other marine troops are not that good and so taking minimum amounts to fill out your detachment is advised. The only instance you'd want bigger squads is for certain Stratagems, but I can't think of any that are generally worth using on Intercessors that you wouldn't be better off using on other units.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Yep, the bog standard bolt rifle.

PS: Unless you're attending tournaments though, I'd have zero issue with you modeling whatever one you think looks best. As long as you tell me at the start of the game "all my intercessors have the basic bolt rifle"...we're good. I feel the same way about Hellblasters and their plasma guns. Pick the coolest looking one, just be consistent game to game on how you define them. Or have them all match at the outset of the game.

It's unlikely anyone would really care about the minor aesthetic differences. You could also run them as each type over several games - but you will find the basic bolt rifle to be the superior option.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/10 19:30:12


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Can't speak for the Apoc rules, but the Grenade Launcher is a free upgrade in 40k and doesn't stop you from firing the normal Bolt Rifle/Stalker/Autobolter, so there's no reason not to build 'em if you're going to play "normal" 40k.

Also, they're pretty easy to overlook, you can always choose not to pay for the upgrade if that ever changes.
   
Made in us
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot







My impression has been the Bolt Rifle is the best since you are going to get Rapid Fire almost all the time with it between half range and Bolter Discipline and the AP is enough to have MEQs kinda sweat when targeted. I think this weapon does an actual good job of being tactically flexible/multi-role as far as a standard, mass issue small arms weapon.

I think the Assault Bolt Rifle could be a contender if it didn't have the additional point cost. I do a lot of foot slogging so getting to an objective faster while still being able to put down so fire has a some use. Like maybe a squad worth of use. Even if it became a free weapon like the others, if Primaris get a good transport, I don't know if that will still be the case.

I can't see the Stalker Bolt Rifle being of much use comparatively. The range and AP are good but not at half the shots of the standard Bolt Rifle. Especially as a Heavy weapon which greatly reduces the flexibility of the Intercessors. Coming back about the range, I like to play on more terrain dense tables so I don't get nearly as many lanes of fire, and even if I did, I don't want my Troop options sitting back plinking away when they generally should be capturing ground/creating space for the rest of my army. I honestly don't see how the stalker bolter could be salvaged either the way everything is setup in 8th. Which is a kinda a shame as it's spiritual predecessor from the Space Marine video game was my favorite weapon.

   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Thanks I'll stick with the normal bolt rifle. My group isn't too strict so they wouldn't care if I proxied as something else, but I like my minis to be wisywig still. Personally like the look of the sniper scopes though, but just for looks, but I already have a unit of 5 of them from the starter set minis, so that should be good enough for me.

   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine






 Necros wrote:
So I just picked up the new Apocalypse marine set to bulk up my Primaris army.. just wondering what’s the best way to equip my Intercessors? Haven’t really played any games yet, so not sure what to do. I have 30 of em to build

Bolt Rifle, Auto Bolt Rifle, Stalker Bolt Rifle? Should I do 10 of each? Worth adding in the Aux grenade launchers?

In games is it better to keep em in units of 10, or are smaller units of 5 better?

I also have all of the models from the starter set, plus a primaris librarian and apothecary, so I think this oughta give me a good sized army now once I get it all built


The Bolt Rifle is the best.

If they'd actually tried to make the guns different, then maybe.

Auto's should have been Assault 3 S4 AP-1 and the Sniper should have been Heavy 1 S5 AP-2 D3 Dmg.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





the impression I get from the various intercessor weapons is GW tried to make them "all equally good choices" which woulda been fine if they all paid the same amount of points. but yeah if they're all eqaully good (and they';re not the bolt rifle is easily superior due to bolter disipline) the one thats free is gonna be the one you choose everytime

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

The Newman wrote:
Can't speak for the Apoc rules, but the Grenade Launcher is a free upgrade in 40k and doesn't stop you from firing the normal Bolt Rifle/Stalker/Autobolter, so there's no reason not to build 'em if you're going to play "normal" 40k.

Also, they're pretty easy to overlook, you can always choose not to pay for the upgrade if that ever changes.


Did they change them? Because last i checked, they basically gave your thrown grenades better range, and tossing those was in lieu of shooting your normal weapon.

As to the 5 or 10 man squad, there are some strategems in the Vigiles book that benifit the different guns, and promote larger squad sizes. But mostly you are going to want MSU 5 man squads with the rapid fire rifles.

You should also see if you can find some spare CC toys for the sarges. At the very least, grab a chainsword to hanf off his belt/pack.

Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 12.5K+ Slowly growing 2Kish
Nevelon's Workbench: Ultramarines, Saim-Hann and other assorted oddities
 
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule





Yeah if you fire the grenade launcher you can't fire your bolt rifle. It has the Grenade type still, which prevents you from shooting any other weapons.

They're of limited use in all honesty, since the new bolter rule especially. The circumstances where it's better than just using your bolter are limited, but it's free so might as well have it!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/10 20:45:06


 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





I thought it was 1 point, did they make it free?

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule





BrianDavion wrote:
I thought it was 1 point, did they make it free?


It's currently free yeah.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Stux wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
I thought it was 1 point, did they make it free?


It's currently free yeah.


awesome. makes sense as it's pretty situational. I imagine it's biggest use is using the Kark grenade

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Togusa wrote:
 Necros wrote:
So I just picked up the new Apocalypse marine set to bulk up my Primaris army.. just wondering what’s the best way to equip my Intercessors? Haven’t really played any games yet, so not sure what to do. I have 30 of em to build

Bolt Rifle, Auto Bolt Rifle, Stalker Bolt Rifle? Should I do 10 of each? Worth adding in the Aux grenade launchers?

In games is it better to keep em in units of 10, or are smaller units of 5 better?

I also have all of the models from the starter set, plus a primaris librarian and apothecary, so I think this oughta give me a good sized army now once I get it all built


The Bolt Rifle is the best.

If they'd actually tried to make the guns different, then maybe.

Auto's should have been Assault 3 S4 AP-1 and the Sniper should have been Heavy 1 S5 AP-2 D3 Dmg.

This is one of the most imbalanced things I've read in a while.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Nevelon wrote:
The Newman wrote:
Can't speak for the Apoc rules, but the Grenade Launcher is a free upgrade in 40k and doesn't stop you from firing the normal Bolt Rifle/Stalker/Autobolter, so there's no reason not to build 'em if you're going to play "normal" 40k.

Also, they're pretty easy to overlook, you can always choose not to pay for the upgrade if that ever changes.


Did they change them? Because last i checked, they basically gave your thrown grenades better range, and tossing those was in lieu of shooting your normal weapon.


I said that badly, what I meant was that the Grenade Launcher doesn't replace the Bolt Rifle like a special or heavy weapon would do on a Tac Marine.
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Are Hellblasters any good? I have 5 from the starter set minis.. would be cool if there was a conversion kit I could get for these Intercessors. When I'm done I'm gonna have 40+ interercessors altogether.. that feels like a lot. I could probably do some Reiver conversions with extra bolt pistols and knives, I have 6 of the easy build reivers, maybe I could bump em up to 10.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
My impression has been the Bolt Rifle is the best since you are going to get Rapid Fire almost all the time with it between half range and Bolter Discipline and the AP is enough to have MEQs kinda sweat when targeted. I think this weapon does an actual good job of being tactically flexible/multi-role as far as a standard, mass issue small arms weapon.

I think the Assault Bolt Rifle could be a contender if it didn't have the additional point cost. I do a lot of foot slogging so getting to an objective faster while still being able to put down so fire has a some use. Like maybe a squad worth of use. Even if it became a free weapon like the others, if Primaris get a good transport, I don't know if that will still be the case.

I can't see the Stalker Bolt Rifle being of much use comparatively. The range and AP are good but not at half the shots of the standard Bolt Rifle. Especially as a Heavy weapon which greatly reduces the flexibility of the Intercessors. Coming back about the range, I like to play on more terrain dense tables so I don't get nearly as many lanes of fire, and even if I did, I don't want my Troop options sitting back plinking away when they generally should be capturing ground/creating space for the rest of my army. I honestly don't see how the stalker bolter could be salvaged either the way everything is setup in 8th. Which is a kinda a shame as it's spiritual predecessor from the Space Marine video game was my favorite weapon.

Even if it were free I don't think the Autobolter really competes with the Bolt Rifle. It's profile is just too similar, so you're always going to take the more points-efficient one. The Stalker has the same problem.
I don't think it can be fixed with points at the current granularity of the system either, they need profiles different enough that you'd pick one based on mission rather than points efficiency.

Say, make the Autobolter an Assault 3 18" S3 AP- D1 with auto-hitting at half range, and the Stalker a Heavy 1, S6, AP2, D1. One is a distinctly anti-horde weapon that makes the Intercessors dangerous to charge, the other makes the unit good at damaging light vehicles and heavy infantry while still being worse than a Bolt Rifle against MEQs and GEQs.
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




The only change the stalker needs currently is to gain the character targetting rule.
Auto bolt rifles I cannot think of a fix for.

All that said, I'd have preferred if it were a purely stylistic choice and had no rules variation. The game doesn't need it.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Necros wrote:
Are Hellblasters any good? I have 5 from the starter set minis.. would be cool if there was a conversion kit I could get for these Intercessors. When I'm done I'm gonna have 40+ interercessors altogether.. that feels like a lot. I could probably do some Reiver conversions with extra bolt pistols and knives, I have 6 of the easy build reivers, maybe I could bump em up to 10.


I own 20 Hellblasters and I don't know why. I've never put more than five of them in a list and they've never been worth it. Then again, I've been told my meta is weird more than once.
   
Made in us
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot







The Newman wrote:
 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
My impression has been the Bolt Rifle is the best since you are going to get Rapid Fire almost all the time with it between half range and Bolter Discipline and the AP is enough to have MEQs kinda sweat when targeted. I think this weapon does an actual good job of being tactically flexible/multi-role as far as a standard, mass issue small arms weapon.

I think the Assault Bolt Rifle could be a contender if it didn't have the additional point cost. I do a lot of foot slogging so getting to an objective faster while still being able to put down so fire has a some use. Like maybe a squad worth of use. Even if it became a free weapon like the others, if Primaris get a good transport, I don't know if that will still be the case.

I can't see the Stalker Bolt Rifle being of much use comparatively. The range and AP are good but not at half the shots of the standard Bolt Rifle. Especially as a Heavy weapon which greatly reduces the flexibility of the Intercessors. Coming back about the range, I like to play on more terrain dense tables so I don't get nearly as many lanes of fire, and even if I did, I don't want my Troop options sitting back plinking away when they generally should be capturing ground/creating space for the rest of my army. I honestly don't see how the stalker bolter could be salvaged either the way everything is setup in 8th. Which is a kinda a shame as it's spiritual predecessor from the Space Marine video game was my favorite weapon.

Even if it were free I don't think the Autobolter really competes with the Bolt Rifle. It's profile is just too similar, so you're always going to take the more points-efficient one. The Stalker has the same problem.
I don't think it can be fixed with points at the current granularity of the system either, they need profiles different enough that you'd pick one based on mission rather than points efficiency.

Say, make the Autobolter an Assault 3 18" S3 AP- D1 with auto-hitting at half range, and the Stalker a Heavy 1, S6, AP2, D1. One is a distinctly anti-horde weapon that makes the Intercessors dangerous to charge, the other makes the unit good at damaging light vehicles and heavy infantry while still being worse than a Bolt Rifle against MEQs and GEQs.



I think your suggestion might be a little overboard on correcting the issue. I think that removing any additional point cost and maybe, maybe give it AP-1, or better yet, no penalty to Advance would allow the Auto Bolt Rifle a role different enough from the standard Bolt Rifle. Still not the primary role, but I think the idea is most Intercessors squads have standard Bolt Rifles and maybe one squad is armed with either the Auto Bolt Rifle or the Stalker Bolt Rifle to suit a specific purpose.

I think it depends on how much you think you are going to need your Intercessors on the move. If you need your Intercessors to march some 24" or so on foot, then I think the Auto Bolt Rifle might come in handy for a squad. If you don't think you are going to need your Intercessors moving that much or don't really know, I agree that the standard Bolt Rifle is just more effective. Of course, if you really think you need to move your Intercessors around, a repulsor and standard bolt rifles might be the better bet too. Also, if the new vehicle turns out to be a decent transport that also makes the Auto Bolt Rifle less of a useful option.

I will agree that paying points for the Auto Bolt Rifle is off as there is a fairly narrow purpose to it that I don't think it at all worth paying points for. Personally, I like the idea of all three weapons having the same points cost making changing them out in an army list super easy with each weapon having slightly differing role depending on what the player might want out of their Intercessors (based on what the Intercessors want to do more than the enemy they want to target). You might be right that the granularity might not be their to exactly balence them out between each other for full on mathhammer folks, but I do think that they can be balanced well enough that in general play you don't really feel it. Right now, I can say the Auto Bolt Rifle feels pretty close as I can come up with things I might want to use it over the standard Bolt Rifle but don't see that being worth paying more. However, I think the Stalker Bolt Rifle is much worse off as fixing it might make it too good and/or interfere with other marine units that have a similar purpose (Scouts, Eliminators).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/11 01:50:01


   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





if the cost was the same I'd be more tempted to play with a mix of differant rifles etc. I mean I could (before bolter disipline at least) see a use for the stalker bolter rifle. if I was going to keep a unit in the back field the added range and AP would be worth it, but not worth paying points for.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot







 Necros wrote:
Are Hellblasters any good? I have 5 from the starter set minis.. would be cool if there was a conversion kit I could get for these Intercessors. When I'm done I'm gonna have 40+ interercessors altogether.. that feels like a lot. I could probably do some Reiver conversions with extra bolt pistols and knives, I have 6 of the easy build reivers, maybe I could bump em up to 10.


If you play Dark Angels, Hellblasters are probably awesome. Otherwise, I think even in an all Primaris army (which their value goes up quite a bit) they are starting to shrink in their usefulness as Primaris get more anti-tank options. If you make use of non-Primaris options, I feel like they might be a bit expensive for the amount of damage they can actually leverage against tough targets. I haven't finished painting up my full box of Hellblasters (which give me 5 of each weapon option) so I can exactly say. I certainly can't say which weapon option is the best. It looks like the assault version really isn't worth bothering with and the heavy version might be too situational. I don't know myself yet.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
if the cost was the same I'd be more tempted to play with a mix of differant rifles etc. I mean I could (before bolter disipline at least) see a use for the stalker bolter rifle. if I was going to keep a unit in the back field the added range and AP would be worth it, but not worth paying points for.


I suppose if I start fielding my Infiltrators, the Stalker Bolt Rifle (if it had something that offset Bolt Discipline) might be useful like you said. I was wondering though, what you would use for front-line/objective capturing units if you kept your Stalker Intercessors in the backfield? It could be because I tend to have little more than Troop slot minimums, but I can't really see keeping Troops in the back save for backfield objectives likely to be deep striked. Even then, I kinda think I want the flexibility of the standard Bolt Rifle just in case. Just curious.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/11 02:12:06


   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





I'\m talking about the stalkers on intercessors. the ones on infiltrators are rapid fire and thus fine.

I think hellblasters definatly have a place but you don't wanna fill your entire HS spot with them as I suspect an all Primaris army REALLY is gonna want eliminators

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot







BrianDavion wrote:
I'\m talking about the stalkers on intercessors. the ones on infiltrators are rapid fire and thus fine.

I think hellblasters definatly have a place but you don't wanna fill your entire HS spot with them as I suspect an all Primaris army REALLY is gonna want eliminators


I should be more clear. I meant that if I fielded my Infiltrators more, I think I might get away with using Intercessors with Stalker Bolt Rifles if they were a little closer to useful as the regular Bolt Rifle as Infiltrators allow more pre-game movement or disrupt deep strike a little better. Otherwise, I don't know if I could have a Troop unit remaining in my backfield since I don't usually field more than Battalion minimums of Troops. I think the Infiltrators might free up that ability to have Stalker Bolt Rifles in the backfield, not that they have Stalker Bolt Rifles.

I was just curious what you would field to allow Stalker Bolt Rifle Intercessors to remain in the back field. Part of the reason I like a squad of Auto Bolt Rifles is that that they allow me to move up the battlefield fairly quickly while still putting out some firepower since I don't really make use of repulsors (still building mine) yet. Also being Troops gives them Objective Secured to potentially capture objectives that my Assault Carbine Reivers can't as quickly. So I was wondering how you would compose your army to have Stalker Bolter Rifle Intercessors, assuming they are close to standard Bolt Rifles in effectiveness, to make up for having a Troop unit in the back.

I am just having a hard time envisioning a way to make use of Stalker Bolt Rifle Intercessors even if their rules were on par with the other weapon options given how I compose my army and play. I was wanting to see a fresh perspective to give me ideas how to use my units in different ways.

   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





Dunno just that I'd be willing to consider at least experimenting with ways it could be done. Maybe just have 3 squads, 2 with bolt rifles and have a single squad with the stalkers providing, effectively fire support. it'd have to be worth while though. as it stands the stats and points cost just isn't worth it. As it is if GW made the stalker bolt rifles worthwhile they'd eaither still be worthless next to eliminators, or Eliminators wou;dn't be worth taking.

truthfully I think GW should when they inevitably get around to making a new kit for Intercessors, just get rid of the 3 seperate bolt rifle types, and use the space saved on the sprue to give us some more useful stuff, like a chainsword or powerfist for the sergant, etc.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
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The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

I think just because I have so many, I'll put together 5 with stalkers and 5 with autos. I already had 10 with bolt rifles, so that'll give me 30 total.

hoping they put out some more new primaris stuff soon, besides a $100 tank. Heavy weapons would be nice

   
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Dakka Veteran




 Necros wrote:
I think just because I have so many, I'll put together 5 with stalkers and 5 with autos. I already had 10 with bolt rifles, so that'll give me 30 total.

hoping they put out some more new primaris stuff soon, besides a $100 tank. Heavy weapons would be nice


In Apoc Eliminators have an alternate profile for Lasfusils that looks pretty much like a Lascannon as I understand it, that's likely to pop up in 40k sooner or later.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Necros wrote:
Bolt Rifle, Auto Bolt Rifle, Stalker Bolt Rifle? Should I do 10 of each? Worth adding in the Aux grenade launchers?

In games is it better to keep em in units of 10, or are smaller units of 5 better?

I also have all of the models from the starter set, plus a primaris librarian and apothecary, so I think this oughta give me a good sized army now once I get it all built

Bolt rifle. No question. Primaris sadly suffer from extreme writer incompetency, whoever wrote them thought the other two guns (which are far inferior...) are so good you need to pay extra for them Even the Vigilus rules don't help here, you need to pay so much CP to make them sorta-kinda useful and even then the other two are still really weak.

Grenade launcher is free so it's no question either, even if you never use it (and it does have some upsides) why not?

I'd keep them in 5, free sarge (who at the worst has +2 attacks with chainsword) and less issues with morale.

Zustiur wrote:
The only change the stalker needs currently is to gain the character targetting rule.

It wouldn't help one bit. You'd still be paying 100 points for a squad that is both much more expensive and has inferior damage output to literally every other sniper in the game. It needs to be Heavy 2 (like Deathwatch one) at the very least.
   
 
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