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At least one of the people working at my local GW seems to believe that the company is moving away from the edition-based way of developing the game over time, and instead will be shifting more towards smaller, periodic updates. Does anyone else believe that this might be the case?

Nope!

Edit: I think periodic updates will happen, and then be consolidated into a new edition along with a few other changes.

When it gets stale they will shake the boat a little. They get a large influx of money when they update editions. Its printing money.

Have they ever officially referred to it as 8th edition? I can't remember if they had only used the general name since 7th, as a branding thing.

Lolno. If they were going to do that it would be 7th IMO. That's when they radically contents mid edition with decurions.

At one point that was the suggested approach, they would have a "living ruleset" and tweak things rather than do entirely new editions. They did this sort of with AOS, where 2.0 isn't a whole new edition just added/cleaned up some stuff.

They could do that with 40k but honestly I think 40k needs a brand new edition, maybe using the Apocalypse rules as a start, but something that isn't just the same old crap largely.

Consider that 3rd to 7th were all built on the same mediocre "rules chassis". That was about 18 years. They tried to adjust the rules over that time, but the stat lines were the same, and the codices were used through numerous editions. It's entirely possible that the core structure of 8th edition will last 10-15 years. It'll be massaged, ruined, and massaged some more in the process. GW doesn't even acknowledge actual editions of 40K (which is hilarious).

So, when will you see the next big full roll-out with an entire codex line replaced and everything scrapped? Not for a loooooooong friggin' time. The rules have changed so much in 8th, we're already in 9th edition if you start comparing the changes from 3rd to 3.5...to 4th, etc.

 Trickstick wrote:
Have they ever officially referred to it as 8th edition? I can't remember if they had only used the general name since 7th, as a branding thing.

They've almost never referred to the edition number in any edition of the game.

With the changes that come in points and stats as well as the addition of new models GW can still do editions and considering that editions generate a huge amount of buzz, media and sales for them I can't see them abandoning that approach.

The biggest consideration is if GW uses the edition as a tune-up of the current rules. Consolidating all the addendum and errata; polishing it up and clearing it up. Ergo sticking with what we have now and providing a single rules document and updated selection of Codex, with some new amendments and all the prior released FAQ/Errata and point changes.
Basically a polish and an update.


The second option is they do the above, but also throw new mechanics into the mix. This might be as simple as when they introduced dedicated fliers into the game; or could be something else like a complete re-work of terrain rules. Basically sticking with the same general core of the game, but then throwing big changes into it at the same time and using the new edition to launch those changes. This has the bonus that it increases value of the new documents to long term fans and presents new approaches to play. New mechanics can also introduce new niches for models, increasing army diversity for larger armies that might otherwise have solutions to all current mechanics.

The third option is to re-write the rules on a much more fundamental level. Heck with Apoc in the wild many are wondering if GW might use that as a foundation - moving toward alternating activations or other ideas presented in Apoc. Such massive changes are ideally suited to a new edition, and such a big change means that GW can maximise things as they have done now with updated FAQ/Errata and also new handbooks each year etc...




So yeah I think we will have new editions, they are major landmark releases that GW uses to generate a big injection of profit and income into the company as well as to consolidate things.
Just what nature the new edition takes is impossible to predict though and GW might not yet be fully sure what direction they will take.








Note there's another possibility and that's if GW doesn't introduce a new edition at all and instead creates a rolling rules set. This is basically akin to the first idea I proposed, but instead of bieng a big "new edition" marketing they'd instead market it as an updated rulebook. This method has the bonus that GW doesn't have a landmark single launch where they then have to spend the best part of 2 years updating all the codex at once. Instead they can just roll out the new rule book with all the previous amendments in it and some new additions; whilst not making as big a fan-fare, but at the same time also able to keep old codex around and update slower. Simply making it into one long series of rolling updates on the core rules and codex over time.


The bonus here is that whilst GW removes the big cash injection they also smooth out the investment and production into a more steady stream of changes. So instead of a massive investment risk and then massive returns they make steadier investments and get steadier returns.

There absolutely will be... it will be closer to the jump between AoS and AoS 2.0

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
At least one of the people working at my local GW seems to believe that the company is moving away from the edition-based way of developing the game over time, and instead will be shifting more towards smaller, periodic updates. Does anyone else believe that this might be the case?

Yeah, riiiight.. Even if that is their line of BS/plan at the moment, it'll change.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
At least one of the people working at my local GW

Just remember that GW's local store employees are minimum-wage retail workers who get very little inside information. Their belief is no more credible than my random claim that 9th edition is coming next week.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
At least one of the people working at my local GW seems to believe that the company is moving away from the edition-based way of developing the game over time, and instead will be shifting more towards smaller, periodic updates. Does anyone else believe that this might be the case?

Yeah, riiiight.. Even if that is their line of BS/plan at the moment, it'll change.

The core rules will change and when they do it will be another edition even if they dont use the word to describe it. 9th will happen. Maybe by another name, but it will happen all the same.

I expect a rule consolidation before the end of the year, but a new edition? Unlikely in the near future.

Maybe 5 years from now it could happen, who knows.

As above, they never (in recent times) numbered or named their editions. It´s always just "here´s the new Warhammer 40K or new Age of Sigmar or whatever".

There was actually some debate about whether 7th was 7. Edition or Edition 6.5, because fake-rumour websites did have stuff about a "living rulebook" and so on back in the day and didn´t want to admit they were wrong, but "7th edition" ultimately seems to have been the name people settled on.

By and large, I expect GW to roughly (!!!) stick to a 3-4 year cycle, alternating between AoS and 40K editions. So there should be a new Warhammer 40K in 2021 maybe (plus or minus a year)

I also expect to cross-pollination from other games to continue. AoS-style "permanent effects" might come in with the 40K-equivalent of endless spells (which doesn´t mean they have to be psychic powers... could be a miniature for a Tau force field or whatever), perhaps some refined variant of things we see in Apoc like alternating detachment-activation, etc.., etc..

I hope they just continue to update/refine 8th. Cover was addressed in CA18 now we just need to see what CA19 "fixes".

If they do a major shakeup(d12-20 system w D6 for specific stuff) it shouldn't require an entire change due to them expressing a "living" ruleset. They could just say "hey btw, you use D12's for S/T or armour/invuln now, but D6 for everything else". May require a new battle primer but should be relatively easy to implement.

 Overread wrote:

This method has the bonus that GW doesn't have a landmark single launch where they then have to spend the best part of 2 years updating all the codex at once. Instead they can just roll out the new rule book with all the previous amendments in it and some new additions; whilst not making as big a fan-fare, but at the same time also able to keep old codex around and update slower. Simply making it into one long series of rolling updates on the core rules and codex over time.

I have this childish, utopian dream of GW for once sitting down and writing ALL of the codices for 40k AT THE SAME TIME! You know, so that the various faction abilities and special rules can all be compared with each other and tested properly instead of throwing them out there and simply adding new factions/abilities that are just plain better than what already exists.

Maybe not I mean why release a new edition for £40 every 4 years when you can sell an errata sorry chapter approved every year for £20.

SeanDrake wrote:
Maybe not I mean why release a new edition for £40 every 4 years when you can sell an errata sorry chapter approved every year for £20.

{whynotboth.gif}

They make more money from the books than the models. Lots of players who have been around might go an entire edition without buying a model if they really don't want to. They'll buy several books.

Breton wrote:
They make more money from the books than the models. Lots of players who have been around might go an entire edition without buying a model if they really don't want to. They'll buy several books.

I find this quite hard to believe. Do you have any official number on this?

Spoletta wrote:

Breton wrote:
They make more money from the books than the models. Lots of players who have been around might go an entire edition without buying a model if they really don't want to. They'll buy several books.

I find this quite hard to believe. Do you have any official number on this?

I would imagine it's simple logic? If they change editions your models update all but automatically. Your books do not.

Breton wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

Breton wrote:
They make more money from the books than the models. Lots of players who have been around might go an entire edition without buying a model if they really don't want to. They'll buy several books.

I find this quite hard to believe. Do you have any official number on this?

I would imagine it's simple logic? If they change editions your models update all but automatically. Your books do not.

This goes against my experience.
Edition changes every 3 years (using 6th 7th and 8th average). One rulebook and codex together cost as much as a couple of boxes of medium price. Are you telling me that people don't buy 2 boxes in 3 years? I know that i buy more than that in a single year.

Books are much more expensive to make than some plastic models for GW especially since rule books get outdated unlike models so they have to reprint and restock them and every unsold copy is a direct loss when the new version comes.

I used to buy the books way back but now I mostly just use battlescribe. Came back to the game a few months back and looked at what rule books I would need. Added the cost together and just said "feth no! I aint spending that much for just some rules documents that have been FAQed anyway". Especially now that the core rules are so shallow and most of the special rules really lies in all the subfaction special rules, stratagems, relics and traits. Would need to pay hundreds of $, £, or € just to not get surprised and lose a game and that isnt an option. So I would need to download every codex anyway or look them up at 1d4chan so why pay for my own books when im already using the internet + battlescribe.

I have spent a few hundred € to update my army though since new edition changes what is viable and even how many or what unit you can actually field in your army.

Have a few friends who just looked at the book prices, shaked their heads and laughed at the thought of buying the books and getting back into 40k. In these cases the books even prevents people from spending money.

Klickor wrote:
Books are much more expensive to make than some plastic models for GW especially since rule books get outdated unlike models so they have to reprint and restock them and every unsold copy is a direct loss when the new version comes.

I used to buy the books way back but now I mostly just use battlescribe. Came back to the game a few months back and looked at what rule books I would need. Added the cost together and just said "feth no! I aint spending that much for just some rules documents that have been FAQed anyway". Especially now that the core rules are so shallow and most of the special rules really lies in all the subfaction special rules, stratagems, relics and traits. Would need to pay hundreds of $, £, or € just to not get surprised and lose a game and that isnt an option. So I would need to download every codex anyway or look them up at 1d4chan so why pay for my own books when im already using the internet + battlescribe.

I have spent a few hundred € to update my army though since new edition changes what is viable and even how many or what unit you can actually field in your army.

Have a few friends who just looked at the book prices, shaked their heads and laughed at the thought of buying the books and getting back into 40k. In these cases the books even prevents people from spending money.

I don't think GWE realisticly expects everyone to buy every codex. I suspect the vast majority of the player base bought their own codex, and maybe a codex or two for armies they faced often or just had intreast in.

I don't know anyone, not even the most competitive kind of players, who ever though about buying all the codici. Yours is more than enough.

Many players i play with don't even buy the rulebook...

Spoletta wrote:

Breton wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

Breton wrote:
They make more money from the books than the models. Lots of players who have been around might go an entire edition without buying a model if they really don't want to. They'll buy several books.

I find this quite hard to believe. Do you have any official number on this?

I would imagine it's simple logic? If they change editions your models update all but automatically. Your books do not.

This goes against my experience.
Edition changes every 3 years (using 6th 7th and 8th average). One rulebook and codex together cost as much as a couple of boxes of medium price. Are you telling me that people don't buy 2 boxes in 3 years? I know that i buy more than that in a single year.

I didn't. I bought three rule books, 2 Codex, an Index, two Vigilus expansion books, and Imperial Armor for 8th edition. The only models came in "starter sets" with the books and/or were new/Primaris. Beyond that, I have some boxes from 5th I've been in no hurry to get to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I realize I could be an outlier offset by the new player who has to buy new models for everything - but until recently I hadn't bought any kit available in 5th edition. But I bought lots of books. In 8th edition - as near as I can tell - all of my models from 5th edition are still legal to use though my 2nd edition assault marines either need a white helmet now. None of my books are.

My point is, nobody HAS to toss their old models and buy new ones when a new edition drops. They do have to buy new books. New Editions generate book sales from all buyers, and starter set sales from many buyers - between the mini rule books we used to get, and unique/resculpts (Remember Deffkoptas from Assault on Black Reach?)

Thing is GW doens't just release new books, they typically also release new models and updated models. Plus shifts in balance and how the game works can sometimes make a unit which was once under performing or not all that important to take; suddenly become part of the new meta or gain a new role on the battlefield.

So typically unless you already "own everything" most people will be buying a few boxes here and there of new fresh models. Plus new editions can often spark that "hey lets start that new army" craze in many gamers so even if you've got all the Marines you could ever want you might now get a hunger for Orks or Tyranids .

Spoletta wrote:
I don't know anyone, not even the most competitive kind of players, who ever though about buying all the codici. Yours is more than enough.

Many players i play with don't even buy the rulebook...

I used to back in 2nd and 3rd edition, the books weren't too expensive and 3rd had the longest shelf life so it was value for money. I used to like to read the rules of all the factions to see what I might come up against. At least back then the number of Factions wasn't as bad as it is now, also the options for the factions were a fraction of what they are now.

I can't imagine anyone doing this from 6th edition onwards. Shame as it was really nice to read all the other faction's background and fluff.

Back on topic,
9th edition will come along eventually, as will 10th, 11th, etc. As long as GW are still in business, they will have their gamers tax. Which is to buy a new set of rule books every 2-4 years. Sometimes it is just a tidy up (7th), other times it is a big change (3rd).