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One of my favorite aspects of hobby gaming, going back to my days as a magic player, and continuing through GW games the last 17 years, has been the ability to buy, sell, and trade. It's the sort of low stakes commerce that becomes a game beyond the game: buying low, selling high, finding rare or interesting models, and good old fashioned haggling. This post isn't about the buying or selling just yet, but more fundamental. My goal is to discuss the varying kinds of items that are for sale, their channels, and how to value things.

Like most goods, the price of gaming supplies is governed by two supply and demand. Supply ranges from essentially infinite for currently produced models to incredibly rare for some limited edition models. Demand also ranges from "everybody wants it" to "tough to give away." I won't' begin to try to quantify these items, instead just divide all items into high and low in both, giving us four quadrants to discuss. While terms like "high demand" are relative, understanding what is desirable vs. unwanted, or rare vs. common, can help you make more confident offers on used items, or set your prices more appropriately.

High Supply/High Demand – the Commodities
This quadrant is dominated by currently produced items, all of which are readily available, but are all still in demand as being current. There is some wiggle room here, as there's a big difference between starter box contents (where supply outpaced demand) and items that are only available by direct order (where demand outpaces supply). Prices can vary significantly in this quadrant, but the unifying thread is that these items are essentially commodities. There's plenty in circulation and plenty of buyers, so prices quickly stabilize. For goods that are new in box (NIB), this is usually a percentage of the retail price, while for new on sprue items that are "broken up" from larger boxes, that connection will dwindle. Remember that for NIB stock available in distribution, 15% off with free shipping is available at all times, so never pay more than that second hand.

This is, in my experience, not a great area to try to make money in. You're running up against the shoestring gaming stores selling online, so unless you can buy at a huge discount, this isn't a great quadrant for resale. For personal use, of course, we all end up here some of the time.

High Supply/Low Demand – Going to the Thrift Store
This quadrant is for items where supply is plentiful, and tends to outpace demand. The biggest sample here are built and painted infantry, but can also include obsolete rulebooks, and old white dwarfs. This is the stuff that is at every swap meet: space marine armies, bags of lizardmen, stacks of WFB army books. It's not worthless, but there's really plenty of it for anybody that wants it.

Still, there is money to be made here. Some stuff is so tough to shift that I'd advise against speculation (old rulebooks and white dwarfs are both heavy and thus pricy to ship, and low value), but most used minis will sell to somebody if you can get it cheap enough. For stuff in this category, be heartless. Sure, it's a box of dozens of half painted models with a price tag of 70% off retail, offer even less. Selling painted marines for a buck a piece won't make you rich, but grabbing them for 50 cents a piece can still be a good buy. Just be careful you don't buy more than you can every use.

Low Supply/Low Demand – The true niche
This quadrant is for a wide spectrum of stuff. It can include GW models that are old or out of production, but isn't particularly well remembered or loved. Most OOP falls into this category, especially WFB stuff from 4th/5th edition onward, and 40k stuff from 2nd edition onward. Also included here is most non-GW minis, aside from stuff like PP, Wyrd, Battlefront, or other mainstream games. I'd argue that painted, complete armies fall into this category. Most of this stuff, while low in supply comes up enough on ebay to get a sense for value. Other stuff, such as from more obscure manufacturers or fully painted armies, take more art to appraise.
For run of the mill OOP stuff, try to have a sense of what is complete chaff (such as 3rd edition plastic dark elder) and what can still fetch a decent price (OOP elder minis). There are some great bargains here, but only speculate when you can really get firesale prices. For personal use, this can be a very rewarding area to get models you like for well under current retail.

For buying and selling fully painted armies, that's a skill in itself. There simply aren't a lot of well painted armies available for sale, and there are also not a lot of buyers. But… it only takes one person willing to pay to get a great sale price. This is an area to really look at the market, see what comparable armies have sold for, and be aware of what is popular to play. Selling complete armies requires a lot of knowledge, both of the models used, the game rules of the units, and even what kind of paint techniques were used. Not for the faint of heart.

Low Supply/High Demand – Gotta Collect 'em All
Now we're talking! Limited edition models, popular OOP models, well painted units that are dominating the current meta, and used Tanks and other vehicles are the big examples of this quadrant. This is the only quadrant were demand consistently exceeds supply relative to other, similar items, and is where the sharp eyed and knowledgeable buyer can make some profitable or high value purchases. Very little in gaming is impossible to find, the hard part is finding these gems for less than ebay prices. When you see these items for sale at the same prices as the niche stuff discussed above, that's when you really open the wallet. You wont' often see guys selling stuff like Juan Diaz daemonettes for the same price as old metal bloodletters, but you might see a person selling "catachans" that turn out to be Tanith. That's a doubling in value!

I've seen guys at swap meets trying to get five bucks a piece for metal models, and for old scouts or Necron immortals, that's a steep price. But if you look them over, and see a Gideon Lorr or some of the Masters of the Chapter, that suddenly becomes a good price. (True stories, btw.) Get a sense of what OOP or limited stuff is actually sought after, and which is not. The limited edition Kroot is a great model, but he's everywhere. Ditto the "at ease" cadians. Stuff can be really cool and old, and still not be worth a ton (like the rogue trader era inquisitor in terminator armor). There are some models that were made briefly that people really like, such as 3rd edition era CSM slaanesh.

The final, and in some ways biggest, part of this segment is for current second hand models that are in high demand. Most of the time, this are things like vehicles, super heavies, anything forge world, monsters, and any high dollar cost/low point unit that is good in the game (think Admech chicken walkers or Tau Broadsides). Rhinos are common enough, and not wanted enough to not be here, but predators are. Leman Russes as well. Even Landraiders, which aren't always "good" in the game, have never been bought in bulk and hold their value. A lot of vehicles, even in well used condition, sell for half their retail cost. If you can stay sharp, you can also make some money by selling painted units that are really good in the meta. Especially with more open army building, there's money to be had in chasing that dragon.
The nice thing about dealing in this quadrant is that it really rewards knowledge of the back catalogue. There's a lot of money to be made buying low on this stuff and selling it once you ID it.

I know this probably reads like a rant, but I think it might be helpful to understand the different types of items that all make up the second hand market.

Interesting read. I’ve got a lot of old crap collecting dust, and some of it probably has value. But sorting the wheat from the chaff for someone who doesn’t do e-bay makes for a daunting entry into the second hand market.

My view of the 2nd hand market is that people, in particular ebayers, seem to have an over-inflated opinion of what a particular model is actually worth. Especially people who, for example, sell Warhammer Quest 1995 stuff, either piecemeal or as a whole box set.

Trouble is, there's always some mug, often looking to prove how big his manhood is, who will buy at these over-inflated prices.

That's interesting. But I think its more down to Current Models (meta) and anyting that's OOP.

I think any Current models have a base price on the second hand market equal to what GW charges. Why would I pay £20 for a box that's has some bits cut out and glued/gnarled up box if I can buy the same box NIB for £21 from GW or discounters.

It gets trickier with OOP stuff -

Anything that's OOP is worth as much as any next collectible I.E. whatever the buyer is willing to pay.
Someone will always come along willing to sell for less if they need to sell and someone will pay more if they want it enough.

I think for the most part is the whole beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Mind sometimes boggle at how much people are willing to pay for models I.e. Above GW prices. It happens... And is weird.. I don't know how to explain it lol.

Add in that there is actual scalping taking place - the Nolzur's Unpainted beholder is very much still in production, and has a list price of $5.

The speculators are buying a majority of the models as they become available, and are retailing them at circa $25 on Amazon.... And are, I suspect, routinely getting that amount. (At $5 the model is an incredible bargain - GF9 has a resin beholder that looks nowhere near as nice, and retails, list, at more than $25....)




I spent months attempting to purchase the model through normal retail channels - but before I succeeded one of the folks on the Reaper forums gifted me with one of the beholders so that I could gift it, in turn, to my wife. Thank you, Pezler the Polychromatic!

The Auld Grump - and a month or so later the beholder tried to kill the party, and did manage to turn the brother of the party barbarian to stone. Such are the dangers of giving your GM wife a nice miniature.

*EDIT* To be clear - the beholder mini is freakin' awesome for $5. I can actually understand people being willing to pay the $25 the scalpers are asking. It was also a lot of fun to paint.

I remember similar hassles trying to get ,the owlbear, OOS everywhere and, supposedly, often not delivered to gamestores when they got their re-stocks

(I suspect they were actually being pulled by the staff for re-sale later)

Good write up, I definitely find a lot of fun out of finding rare models and watching how pricey they can get. I saw a couple of Eldar Firestorms go on eBay a week or so ago and they went for a fair chunk of cash each.

The meta is a good shaper of the secondary market and picking up models that aren't good now in the event that they become good is never a bad idea.

Nevelon wrote:Interesting read. I’ve got a lot of old crap collecting dust, and some of it probably has value. But sorting the wheat from the chaff for someone who doesn’t do e-bay makes for a daunting entry into the second hand market.

Right. I don't know what you have, but the odds are good you have the same sort of 10-20 year old collection that has some value, but probably nothing too spicy. I'm not saying that everybody should become a sharp. In fact, people who just want to sell "old crap" for pennies on the dollar are my favorite kind of seller.

and I'm not trying to make you sound like a sucker, either. Why spend hours and hours to get a little bit more cash for your collection? You have better things to do.

Rob Lee wrote:My view of the 2nd hand market is that people, in particular ebayers, seem to have an over-inflated opinion of what a particular model is actually worth. Especially people who, for example, sell Warhammer Quest 1995 stuff, either piecemeal or as a whole box set.

Trouble is, there's always some mug, often looking to prove how big his manhood is, who will buy at these over-inflated prices.

So... that's pretty much how the free market works. WHQ stuff is very low supply, and pretty much every serious gamer would like a copy, so the price gets squeezed to what the very thirstiest are willing to pay.

It is worth pointing out that there's a big difference between the professional sellers who have huge inventory and are okay sitting on rare stuff for months/years to get their price, and a smaller seller that wants to cash out. Just because a rare item sold for X amount two months ago doesn't mean you'll get that same price, and probably not quickly.

Argive wrote:Anything that's OOP is worth as much as any next collectible I.E. whatever the buyer is willing to pay.
Someone will always come along willing to sell for less if they need to sell and someone will pay more if they want it enough.

I think for the most part is the whole beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Mind sometimes boggle at how much people are willing to pay for models I.e. Above GW prices. It happens... And is weird.. I don't know how to explain it lol.

That's obviously always true, but there are ways to be sharper in understanding the market. the OOP stuff that really sells generally was either a slow seller, available for a limited time, or both, while currently being appreciated, either in terms of model quality, game rules, or nostalgia. Look at Brettonians. They were available for a long time, but never sold a ton. They're now fully OOP with no replacement, and people go nuts for 'em. tomb Kings even more so, because some of their kits were only made for a few years. All Metal IG got a boost in 8th edition when IG squads became great, while all tactical squads have taken a hit with the introduction of primaris and the underwhelming rules for mini marines.

TheAuldGrump wrote:Add in that there is actual scalping taking place - the Nolzur's Unpainted beholder is very much still in production, and has a list price of $5.

The speculators are buying a majority of the models as they become available, and are retailing them at circa $25 on Amazon.... And are, I suspect, routinely getting that amount. (At $5 the model is an incredible bargain - GF9 has a resin beholder that looks nowhere near as nice, and retails, list, at more than $25....)




I spent months attempting to purchase the model through normal retail channels - but before I succeeded one of the folks on the Reaper forums gifted me with one of the beholders so that I could gift it, in turn, to my wife. Thank you, Pezler the Polychromatic!

The Auld Grump - and a month or so later the beholder tried to kill the party, and did manage to turn the brother of the party barbarian to stone. Such are the dangers of giving your GM wife a nice miniature.

*EDIT* To be clear - the beholder mini is freakin' awesome for $5. I can actually understand people being willing to pay the $25 the scalpers are asking. It was also a lot of fun to paint.

This is a pretty clear example of too little supply. If they had simply sold the thing at, say, $15, there'd be plenty. Even at $10, It would stay in retail. But selling a beautiful sculpt of an iconic monster for dirt cheap, when you know their Chinese supplier can't just make more of one SKU, leads to wonkiness. this is a case where putting the price point too low actually hurts the customer.

 Polonius wrote:

Nevelon wrote:Interesting read. I’ve got a lot of old crap collecting dust, and some of it probably has value. But sorting the wheat from the chaff for someone who doesn’t do e-bay makes for a daunting entry into the second hand market.

Right. I don't know what you have, but the odds are good you have the same sort of 10-20 year old collection that has some value, but probably nothing too spicy. I'm not saying that everybody should become a sharp. In fact, people who just want to sell "old crap" for pennies on the dollar are my favorite kind of seller.

and I'm not trying to make you sound like a sucker, either. Why spend hours and hours to get a little bit more cash for your collection? You have better things to do.

Tack an extra decade on that. GSC from the first time around, Dogs of War, RT Eldar. I know there is good stuff there, just no idea what it’s worth. The one time I mentioned selling, I got a insultingly lowball offer from someone more interested in scamming/flipping for profit then making a fair deal. Kinda soured me on the concept of selling. I’ve got enough money in my hobby fund I don’t need to sell, but collecting dust isn’t helping anyone.

I don’t want to be a sucker, but I also don’t want to blow all the time to get educated just to move my stuff. If I wanted to get into buying/reselling, it would be worth the investment of time. But not just to clear out a few boxes. So the easy thing to do is nothing, and just have a little more clutter in the apartment.

I threw most of my stuff in the bin - RT and 2nd ed 40k. Can’t be bothered with the posting hassles and space needed to be made for historicals. It had its time.

 Nevelon wrote:
Tack an extra decade on that. GSC from the first time around, Dogs of War, RT Eldar. I know there is good stuff there, just no idea what it’s worth. The one time I mentioned selling, I got a insultingly lowball offer from someone more interested in scamming/flipping for profit then making a fair deal. Kinda soured me on the concept of selling. I’ve got enough money in my hobby fund I don’t need to sell, but collecting dust isn’t helping anyone.

I don’t want to be a sucker, but I also don’t want to blow all the time to get educated just to move my stuff. If I wanted to get into buying/reselling, it would be worth the investment of time. But not just to clear out a few boxes. So the easy thing to do is nothing, and just have a little more clutter in the apartment.

I think you describe an interesting situation: you have a strong instinct that you have value (and with Dogs of War at least, you do), and you resent being taken advantage of, but you don't want to learn the actual value of your lots. I'm not picking on you, I think that's fair, but there are plenty of ways to get that information. If you have a friend that buys and sells, you can ask them. You can go on ebay and see what lots actually sell for. You can join the Oldhammer/Middle hammer valuation facebook groups.

As for lowball offers from people "more interested in scamming/flipping for profit then making a fair deal..." that's part of the business. If you do not know enough about what you are selling to even set an asking price, you open yourself up to lowball offers. There's a sense in negotiations that by making the first offer, you give away leverage. That's really only true the less information either side has to fair value, and usually when we are talking orders of magnitude difference. Most of the time, the first offer has what's called an anchor effect, as long as the first offer is plausible. this can backfire if the seller sees it as insulting, of course, which makes negotiating with very unsure sellers a landmine.

The question becomes: what's a low ball offer? I once bought boxes of miscellaneous stuff at a swap meet for $75, and that's what the seller asked for! I flipped it for about $500 while keeping some of the best stuff. If I had offered that, it would be seen as a lowball, but once you've paid that little, your idea of a reasonable offer starts to flex. My approach with a person selling a collection who does not have a great understanding of the value is to balance my greed with a need to make the seller comfortable. My first question is always "what are you looking to get?" This allows the seller to tell me what he's valuing the collection at. If he has no clue, then I'll try to size him up. Some people like a big, sweeping offer "how about $200 for everything!", while others like a more itemized approach, "how about a buck per figure, and three bucks each for the dogs of war?"

to get back to Nevelon's scenario, let's say some jerk (like me) at a swap meet or FB group offers $100 for everything. This seems very low, but the devil is in the details. How big is the collection? What condition? Are units complete, or is it odds and ends? And most importantly: what does the seller think it is worth? Even if a seller just says "that seems low, but I don't know what I'm asking" a good buyer will try at least one more offer. Maybe walk the seller through your appraisal of the lot. In the end though, if a seller cannot or will not give a value to what they are selling, it is very difficult to negotiate.

I'm about as enthusiastic about using other people's second-hand miniatures as I am about using their second-hand underpants. Maybe if it's stock and I can apply hobby-bleach (aka Simple Green) to re-build it and re-do it, but otherwise? I can see why GW had to do Primaris, otherwise I would have bought all the Space Marines I'd ever need and a few hundred left over for reasons.

As I've drifted away from the gaming side of The Hobby, and replaced that by returning to the world of scale models, I see much of the same there.

For instance, there's a local guy who has a storefront set up to buy/sell (mostly) Hot Wheels cars, but also has a bunch of plastic scale models. So he goes to a bunch of trade/toy shows and sets up his booth and all that. Well, one week I went to his shop (before I'd decided to not spend another dime at his place, but that isn't a topic for this forum), and he showed me his haul and gave me first crack at it. . . Obviously, he'd already done some initial eBay research. . . I ended up buying a scale Ferrari model off of him for $60 bucks that "last sold" for over $160 (and truth be told, the model bought is in the "wrong" scale. . . same company at the same time made the same car in a slightly larger scale at lesser volume, and those are selling for near 400 today)


In the scale world, IMO, things are a bit different though. . . There's been an increasing trend for major companies to revisit their old kits, freshen up the molds and then repopulate the market. In some cases this freshening up includes brand new details (a Tamiya car I bought around my birthday was a repopulated Porsche, but the new kit came with photo-etched parts for better detail), or merely a new decal sheet. Whereas we all know what happens to space marine kits at GW.

For some games I am willing to pay ridiculous prices if it fills out a army requirement (confrontation and AT-43 have unit and type reqs for certain builds) or for armies that barely got released ( Cogs, Rams, and ONI) but for most games if you wait long enough you will get a deal. i know someone who just scored a major haul of warhammer fantasy from 2 editions ago looking for some advice, basically i just look at other sites and see an average,.

Ebay prices make me so mad, especially if I need a mini just to finish a squad off.

When GW prices were £4 for say 3 space marines in a blister, the ebay sellers want £50 for a single mini damaged blister with the price squiggled out but you can still clearly see it.

I'm at the point now where I'm looking at my back log with squint eyes, trying to decide what I'll actually get to and what should be re-homed in some fashion so that someone else can get benefit from it.

Will probably try and sell most, so this is a useful thread.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I threw most of my stuff in the bin - RT and 2nd ed 40k. Can’t be bothered with the posting hassles and space needed to be made for historicals. It had its time.

That's just so incredibly wasteful, even if you couldn't be bothered with parsing it out for sale just dump the whole lot with a charity shop or something. Over time it'll be passe don through them and some people might get a lot of valuable usage out of the models.

Ho hum, too late now.

I'm about as enthusiastic about using other people's second-hand miniatures as I am about using their second-hand underpants.

Thank God. I thought I was alone in this.
I have not and will not ever buy/use a second hand miniature.
One simply does not know where its been/who has mauled it.
Yup #OCD.

there's nothing wrong with avoiding used minis. For a lot of folks, used minis, especially plastics, are of no value as a buyer.

I appreciate all of the perspectives shared in this thread, because I think it will help the readers understand that everybody assigns their own value to minis. The key as a savvy buyer is to find the sellers that are motivated, and vice versa.

A good friend of mine, who is one of those rare artists who actually makes a living doing his art (he's a glassblower), has asked me why I don't try to make a living at painting minis. I just smile politely and tell him that this figure I just finished, and spent maybe 2 hours on, could probably sell for about what I paid for it. Maybe less.

It's *tough* to make any money reselling minis (and games and accessories, etc)

I do fondly recall the various great deals I've gotten... At one flea market, I picked up a $600 unassembled NIB GW lizardman army for $50. Such a coup!

At another flea market I found $600+ worth of Red Blok AT 43 troops, mechs and accessories for $40 (guy wanted $60, but immediately accepted my offer of $40!). Includes rules, tokens, dice, cards, scenery... Really a steal. And very ironic that it sat, untouched, in my storage for years until I gave it to another friend who still plays.

I recall offering $10 to a guy at a flea market for a half assembled, complete Eldar grav tank. He accepted, then proceeded to chat me up about Eldar and their vehicles. I walked away with three grav tanks, three vipers, and a jet bike or two. For $10.

And I've happily made other gamer's day with great bargains in return. If I don't want it anymore and someone else does... I'm happy to give 'em a great price.

Lol.

Nurglitch wrote:
I'm about as enthusiastic about using other people's second-hand miniatures as I am about using their second-hand underpants.

I'm sort of like this. I often prefer unpainted/unbuilt, stuff that's sat in a collection/pile of shame for a while. If I'm really pressed, I'll look at built/primed models, though I despise those sellers that have models absolutely coated in primer to the point it's starting to obscure detail. I'm not a fan of stripping, and it's always gone bad because my luck has been they've used some weird or out ther primer that won't come off.

I think the only exception is possible Forgeworld Bio-titans. Mostly because they've gotten to the point I refuse to buy it from FW. Still trawling around for a decent-price Heirophant that won't be too much trouble.

most of my games are OOP, so I have to use 2nd hand.

Another way to view this is in terms of types of buyers and sellers.

There are buyers who are purchasing products to resell them quickly for a profit. (BOO!)

There are buyers who are purchasing products to resell them over the long term for a profit and possible to play with them.

There are buyers who want to buy things inexpensively as they cannot afford anything else.

There are buyers who purchase assembled and possibly painted models as they do not like to hobby.

There are buyers who purchase the models as they need them quickly for a tournament.

There are buyers who purchase models to collect them.

There are also a number of buyers who purchase products simply to try to keep the number on the market down, and thus raise prices.

The main types of sellers are:
trying to turn a quick buck
trying to make money over time / cash out without losing their shirt
dumping their items at far less than their value

In general, I think that there are tons of people trying to make money on the used market. It is a dangerous game. Minis can become effectively worthless. I believe that if you want to invest time and money, do so in 'real' investments. If you had put the money from a 40k army into google stock when it first went public, you would have done well. Google was a very big and obvious company to invest in when it went public.