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Ever since I've seen the first primaris marines from the starter box sets, something about the model has always looked a bit off and I have just realized it now. The legs look to long compared to the height of them. Now I don't know whether this is just me or other people have noticed this.


Also as a side note what do people think about GW essentially forgetting what dreadnoughts are and putting a live person inside of the new release, along with a stupid dreadknight roll cage.

I disagree about the legs.

As for the Dreadnought complaint you have; the new walker isn't a Dread. GW have not forgotten anything as you can also purchase a Primaris Dreadnought called the Redemptor.

 deotrims 16th wrote:
Ever since I've seen the first primaris marines from the starter box sets, something about the model has always looked a bit off and I have just realized it now. The legs look to long compared to the height of them. Now I don't know whether this is just me or other people have noticed this.


Also as a side note what do people think about GW essentially forgetting what dreadnoughts are and putting a live person inside of the new release, along with a stupid dreadknight roll cage.

Classic marines were too squatty with legs that were in weird proportions, to me Primaris look to be a better scale but that might just be personal preference.

Worth noting the dreadknight doesn't have a roll cage, but if you're not having an enclosed cockpit then a roll cage makes sense surely? There are many weird design choices with the new walker, but giving marines a battle walker that doesn't require a ready supply of mutilated corpses seems like a solid logistical option to me.

If Guardsmen can have walkers so can Astartes. That's all there is to it.

 deotrims 16th wrote:
Ever since I've seen the first primaris marines from the starter box sets, something about the model has always looked a bit off and I have just realized it now. The legs look to long compared to the height of them. Now I don't know whether this is just me or other people have noticed this.


Also as a side note what do people think about GW essentially forgetting what dreadnoughts are and putting a live person inside of the new release, along with a stupid dreadknight roll cage.

I feel exactly the opposite.

Old marines always looked a bit off proportion wise to me. Primaris fixed that, and I think generally look much better.

Regarding the dreadnought - they didn't forget, it's not a dreadnought. They aren't calling it a dreadnought. It's just based on the same chassis. What you're basically saying is the Predator is like they forgot the Rhino was a transport - it's irrelevant, they're different units.

I thought dreadnoughts were supposed to be venerated ancient technology that couldn't be reproduced any more, like terminator armour.

Seems a bit weird that they can build damn near the same thing without any difficulty...

That would by why this is based off the new redemptor chassis rather than some of the older stuff.

 deotrims 16th wrote:
Ever since I've seen the first primaris marines from the starter box sets, something about the model has always looked a bit off and I have just realized it now. The legs look to long compared to the height of them. Now I don't know whether this is just me or other people have noticed this.


Also as a side note what do people think about GW essentially forgetting what dreadnoughts are and putting a live person inside of the new release, along with a stupid dreadknight roll cage.

I'm with you on that. People tell me Primaris are closer to ideal art proportions, and that is great, but they still look 'off' to me. I also don't like way the lower greaves are in that it makes them look like they are wearing ski boots (this effect is magnified even further on gravis armour)

Not a fan of the Invictor. I don't have a problem with open top walkers or warsuits as such. But they have essentially taken a redemptor dreadnought and pasted a marine in a roll cage in there, which looks anf feels wrong. It also doesn't help that the marine pilot looks very awkward.

 deotrims 16th wrote:
Ever since I've seen the first primaris marines from the starter box sets, something about the model has always looked a bit off and I have just realized it now. The legs look to long compared to the height of them. Now I don't know whether this is just me or other people have noticed this.


Also as a side note what do people think about GW essentially forgetting what dreadnoughts are and putting a live person inside of the new release, along with a stupid dreadknight roll cage.

The legs do look stretched. Part of that is looking at 3rd ed marines for 20 years, part is they are a little too stylised the other way.

The issue is not whether the marines could graft a munitorum supply crate's worth of heavy stubbers onto a (embiggened) dreadnought frame, then have the controls all wire up to a joystick where the sarcophagus should be. The issue is whether they would.

The primary reason dreads are valued is that they allow a veteran warrior to keep fighting. They are effective in combat because they are heavily armoured and ordinarily carry heavier weapons than a power armoured marine could manage alone. They can act as strongpoints in the marine line, spearhead assaults and effectively deal with a range of targets marine tactical squads might struggle with (armour/monsters, hordes, super elite infantry)

This walker dispenses with heavy armour and has a ton of machineguns, which is useful against hordes, but not to the extent that it justifies using a dreadnought platform. A marine could probably handle a twin heavy stubber as easily as he could handle a plasmacannon. It also looks like it has a regular pilot rather than a veteran warrior- from a background POV this thing has a lot less utility than a dread on a lot of levels.

Visually, this scoutnought(?) is a mess. The stubber arm is fine, but chin stubbers and the ccw arm make no sense- the marine is holding a joystick and a throttle. If he's aiming the torso at something, the right arm may follow his aim, but if the arm aims to the right, will there be lag before the torso catches up? If not, whats the point of having an arm? And how is he attacking with the other 'hand' arm?

A sarcophagus marine traditionally had two arms to operate, one with a main ranged weapon, the other with a melee weapon, often with a light weapon built in. This gave the marine one thing to focus on at a time for each hand firing the main weapon and supporting with the light weapon when appropriate, smashing with the CCW and supporting with the gun limb when sensible. Upgunned dreads had oneshot support weapons or specialist equipment to operate but it was all linked to the human form. Visually, it cohered in a way this does not.

The Primaris are just as weird as the classic Marines, just in a different way – the former are proportioned like the Stormcast Eternals from AoS, with bizarrely long legs.

I'm no fan of pretty much any of the Primaris stuff, either design- or lore-wise, but I don't actually mind that new walker thing too much. Still won't be getting one though as it doesn't fit with my existing Proper Marines.

YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
That would by why this is based off the new redemptor chassis rather than some of the older stuff.

Yeah, and I'm not really seeing a satisfying enough reason for the Imperium suddenly being able to make a brand new flavour of dreadnought *but* not any of the old ones, other than that GW wanted a new flavour dreadnought to be able to sell alongside their new flavour of space marines...

Their legs are indeed a good deal longer in relation to their torso, but I believe that was the intention, as Space Marines were always somewhat poorly proportioned.

As to your side note, I don't know that it's fair to say that they've forgotten what dreadnoughts are, but I do agree that the new walker is both a poor concept as well as a bad looking model. I put them in the same category as the Repulsor, Suppressor and Inceptor models: never buying! So far I find the Primaris range to be a mixed bag of about 50% greatness mixed with 50% garbage.

Crispy78 wrote:
I thought dreadnoughts were supposed to be venerated ancient technology that couldn't be reproduced any more, like terminator armour.

Seems a bit weird that they can build damn near the same thing without any difficulty...

The ancient technology in dreadnaughts is IIRC the way they are piloted by basically just the brain of the crippled marine. This new walker is piloted with manual controls.

It's the same with Terminator armour and Centurions. Termies are much smaller with better protection but harder to produce. Strapping a marine in a huge exo-skeleton does need much less technology.

I really like the model, but I'm probably going to enclose the pilot and head cannon it as a light dreadnought.

And I like the idea of a double handed gun slinger style one that's been floating around photoshoped...

Crispy78 wrote:

YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
That would by why this is based off the new redemptor chassis rather than some of the older stuff.

Yeah, and I'm not really seeing a satisfying enough reason for the Imperium suddenly being able to make a brand new flavour of dreadnought *but* not any of the old ones, other than that GW wanted a new flavour dreadnought to be able to sell alongside their new flavour of space marines...

Cawl breaking rules and inventing names is the reason. He wants new technologies he's dreaming up with his stamp on, i.e. the redemptor is born. Why bother re-learning the tech of an older model with lower power output/armour etc.when you can go full on American "bigger is better" on it.

The long legs is an interesting observation, and got me thinking a bit about why I'm not a fan of the Primaris range.

I really like the Hajime Katoki Gundam designs, and he is famous for giving his mobile suits, and even revising older mobile suits, to have long legs. I quite like this, as it gives the Gundam a nice, sleek feel, and I think it helps create a sense of movement and action when you pose them, especially for models 'in-flight'.
But I think It clashes with the classic aesthetic of space marines. For a long time, marines have been depicted as like human tanks. The stocky bulk of the classic marine feels very fitting. They have huge armored plates on their chests and shoulders, and their poses kind of reflect that sense of weight, which feels proportional to their size.
Despite their radically increase stature, primaris marines don't feel like their reflect that sense of weight. Their proportions have been adjusted to match the size of their pauldrons, and so that sense of heaviness is reduced. On top of that, I feel like some of the armor plates have been added arbitrarily, just to use up space and fill out areas where details have been lost due to upscaling. I think this also takes away from the original design, as it gives them a more utilitarian look - something taken to really silly extents with the newer kits - and less of the clunky weight of the classic design.
In the grand scheme of things, this, plus the abandoning of the skull-invoking mk VII helmet makes them blend into the amorphous mass of power-armored sci-fi suits. Iron man, Master Chief, the various troopers of Star Wars, the list is long.
Classic marines looked heavy. They looked ultra-reinforced. They were bigger than a man, but they looked like, somewhere inside, there were large men, soaking up fire. The shock troops of a war-torn, decaying empire. Primaris look a bit like any power suited sci-fi guys, and only seem 'bigger' because the models are literally larger. That weightiness, that sense of bulk has disappeared, along with some of their uniqueness.

The same can be said for the new drednoughts. I LOVE the classic dred design. Again, in a pop-culture universe dominated by sleek war machines, and great walking mobile fortresses, the dred feels old. It feels like it clanks about the battlefield, ancient pilot's grisly remains fused inside - it's brilliant and unique, and totally 40k - I particularly like the idea that some chapters actively fear being interred in drednoughts, that they're last-option solutions to a crisis in experienced manpower. By giving them sleek fingers, and longer legs with the new primaris dreds, GW have again moved towards a more unremarkable aesthetic. I can see why some people might like the new rollcage dred, as it pretty explicitly invokes Aliens, a movie I also love. But it has no place in the space marine line. It feels sleek, mobile, and light, rather than heavy, ancient and impossibly tough. Tme and time again with primaris marines, we've seen stuff with broad appeal, rather than keeping in line with classic 40k visuals, and it doesn't seem to be getting any better.

 deotrims 16th wrote:

Also as a side note what do people think about GW essentially forgetting what dreadnoughts are and putting a live person inside of the new release, along with a stupid dreadknight roll cage.

it’s not a Dread. It’s a sentinel. It’s not a critically injured dude in a life support sarcophagus, he’s just a pilot.

I agree, the legs are off. Not by much, the models are not actually ruined.
But I think the proportion are better in the new Chaos Marines. Still taller than the old "squatters", but better than primaris.

I think future models and additional bits can "recover" the old aesthetics, I am actually curious to see the direction GW wants to follow. The new CSM keep the old 50% Black Knight, 40% demonic/fallen angel 10% thug aesthetics and posing of old. The new primaris completely lost the old "knights/paladins in space" (space wolves and white scars excluded, of course) and do not always handle the weapons as if they are wearing power armor. There is something "off" right there, too.

secretForge wrote:
I really like the model, but I'm probably going to enclose the pilot and head cannon it as a light dreadnought.

Even just an enclosed cockpit with a lot of sensors would have been preferable to the roll-cage. I don't hate it, but I'm not thrilled either.

I suspect it will grow on me once I have the actual model in front of me though.

Too long legs?


Reason why this is the case is that inside the suit are not SM to be found but long-legged female dancers from the Crazy Horse. Everybody now can take a breath as female marines have finally arrived.

posermcbogus wrote:The long legs is an interesting observation, and got me thinking a bit about why I'm not a fan of the Primaris range.

I really like the Hajime Katoki Gundam designs, and he is famous for giving his mobile suits, and even revising older mobile suits, to have long legs. I quite like this, as it gives the Gundam a nice, sleek feel, and I think it helps create a sense of movement and action when you pose them, especially for models 'in-flight'.
But I think It clashes with the classic aesthetic of space marines. For a long time, marines have been depicted as like human tanks. The stocky bulk of the classic marine feels very fitting. They have huge armored plates on their chests and shoulders, and their poses kind of reflect that sense of weight, which feels proportional to their size.
Despite their radically increase stature, primaris marines don't feel like their reflect that sense of weight. Their proportions have been adjusted to match the size of their pauldrons, and so that sense of heaviness is reduced. On top of that, I feel like some of the armor plates have been added arbitrarily, just to use up space and fill out areas where details have been lost due to upscaling. I think this also takes away from the original design, as it gives them a more utilitarian look - something taken to really silly extents with the newer kits - and less of the clunky weight of the classic design.
In the grand scheme of things, this, plus the abandoning of the skull-invoking mk VII helmet makes them blend into the amorphous mass of power-armored sci-fi suits. Iron man, Master Chief, the various troopers of Star Wars, the list is long.
Classic marines looked heavy. They looked ultra-reinforced. They were bigger than a man, but they looked like, somewhere inside, there were large men, soaking up fire. The shock troops of a war-torn, decaying empire. Primaris look a bit like any power suited sci-fi guys, and only seem 'bigger' because the models are literally larger. That weightiness, that sense of bulk has disappeared, along with some of their uniqueness.

The same can be said for the new drednoughts. I LOVE the classic dred design. Again, in a pop-culture universe dominated by sleek war machines, and great walking mobile fortresses, the dred feels old. It feels like it clanks about the battlefield, ancient pilot's grisly remains fused inside - it's brilliant and unique, and totally 40k - I particularly like the idea that some chapters actively fear being interred in drednoughts, that they're last-option solutions to a crisis in experienced manpower. By giving them sleek fingers, and longer legs with the new primaris dreds, GW have again moved towards a more unremarkable aesthetic. I can see why some people might like the new rollcage dred, as it pretty explicitly invokes Aliens, a movie I also love. But it has no place in the space marine line. It feels sleek, mobile, and light, rather than heavy, ancient and impossibly tough. Tme and time again with primaris marines, we've seen stuff with broad appeal, rather than keeping in line with classic 40k visuals, and it doesn't seem to be getting any better.

Wonderfully put; couldn't agree more with any of this.

Kaiyanwang wrote:I agree, the legs are off. Not by much, the models are not actually ruined.
But I think the proportion are better in the new Chaos Marines. Still taller than the old "squatters", but better than primaris.

Totally. I'm quite annoyed we're unlikely to see Classic Marines proportioned like the new CSMs (other than the ones in the Space Marine Heroes set, which I think are basically the same as the new Chaos lads).

Dudeface wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:

YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
That would by why this is based off the new redemptor chassis rather than some of the older stuff.

Yeah, and I'm not really seeing a satisfying enough reason for the Imperium suddenly being able to make a brand new flavour of dreadnought *but* not any of the old ones, other than that GW wanted a new flavour dreadnought to be able to sell alongside their new flavour of space marines...

Cawl breaking rules and inventing names is the reason. He wants new technologies he's dreaming up with his stamp on, i.e. the redemptor is born. Why bother re-learning the tech of an older model with lower power output/armour etc.when you can go full on American "bigger is better" on it.

I seriously still wish there was more backlash / civil war on that.

uprooting 10k years worth of dogma.

not that its not needed.

there is almost no reason to get new marine stuff if all it is is a small modification to an old kit. GW has to sell kits and making people buy actual new stuff was the right way to run it.

 Desubot wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:

YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
That would by why this is based off the new redemptor chassis rather than some of the older stuff.

Yeah, and I'm not really seeing a satisfying enough reason for the Imperium suddenly being able to make a brand new flavour of dreadnought *but* not any of the old ones, other than that GW wanted a new flavour dreadnought to be able to sell alongside their new flavour of space marines...

Cawl breaking rules and inventing names is the reason. He wants new technologies he's dreaming up with his stamp on, i.e. the redemptor is born. Why bother re-learning the tech of an older model with lower power output/armour etc.when you can go full on American "bigger is better" on it.

I seriously still wish there was more backlash / civil war on that.

uprooting 10k years worth of dogma.

not that its not needed.

there is almost no reason to get new marine stuff if all it is is a small modification to an old kit. GW has to sell kits and making people buy actual new stuff was the right way to run it.

I feel like the right way of doing things was to do what they've been doing all along on running their business - provide huge power creep to specific units to push sales for existing range.

 skchsan wrote:
I feel like the right way of doing things was to do what they've been doing all along on running their business - provide huge power creep to specific units to push sales for existing range.

No.

I dont think staying the course straight into the pooper is a good idea.

 posermcbogus wrote:
The long legs is an interesting observation, and got me thinking a bit about why I'm not a fan of the Primaris range.

I really like the Hajime Katoki Gundam designs, and he is famous for giving his mobile suits, and even revising older mobile suits, to have long legs. I quite like this, as it gives the Gundam a nice, sleek feel, and I think it helps create a sense of movement and action when you pose them, especially for models 'in-flight'.
But I think It clashes with the classic aesthetic of space marines. For a long time, marines have been depicted as like human tanks. The stocky bulk of the classic marine feels very fitting. They have huge armored plates on their chests and shoulders, and their poses kind of reflect that sense of weight, which feels proportional to their size.
Despite their radically increase stature, primaris marines don't feel like their reflect that sense of weight. Their proportions have been adjusted to match the size of their pauldrons, and so that sense of heaviness is reduced. On top of that, I feel like some of the armor plates have been added arbitrarily, just to use up space and fill out areas where details have been lost due to upscaling. I think this also takes away from the original design, as it gives them a more utilitarian look - something taken to really silly extents with the newer kits - and less of the clunky weight of the classic design.
In the grand scheme of things, this, plus the abandoning of the skull-invoking mk VII helmet makes them blend into the amorphous mass of power-armored sci-fi suits. Iron man, Master Chief, the various troopers of Star Wars, the list is long.
Classic marines looked heavy. They looked ultra-reinforced. They were bigger than a man, but they looked like, somewhere inside, there were large men, soaking up fire. The shock troops of a war-torn, decaying empire. Primaris look a bit like any power suited sci-fi guys, and only seem 'bigger' because the models are literally larger. That weightiness, that sense of bulk has disappeared, along with some of their uniqueness.

The same can be said for the new drednoughts. I LOVE the classic dred design. Again, in a pop-culture universe dominated by sleek war machines, and great walking mobile fortresses, the dred feels old. It feels like it clanks about the battlefield, ancient pilot's grisly remains fused inside - it's brilliant and unique, and totally 40k - I particularly like the idea that some chapters actively fear being interred in drednoughts, that they're last-option solutions to a crisis in experienced manpower. By giving them sleek fingers, and longer legs with the new primaris dreds, GW have again moved towards a more unremarkable aesthetic. I can see why some people might like the new rollcage dred, as it pretty explicitly invokes Aliens, a movie I also love. But it has no place in the space marine line. It feels sleek, mobile, and light, rather than heavy, ancient and impossibly tough. Tme and time again with primaris marines, we've seen stuff with broad appeal, rather than keeping in line with classic 40k visuals, and it doesn't seem to be getting any better.

That's a good break down of it, yeah.

If I were to sum up my impressions, the new Primaris look more heroic, but I prefer more grittiness and old-world. The old squat stance is marines advancing into fire, but keeping their guard up.

 Desubot wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
I feel like the right way of doing things was to do what they've been doing all along on running their business - provide huge power creep to specific units to push sales for existing range.

No.

I dont think staying the course straight into the pooper is a good idea.

I would've been more inclined to replace my marine range (albeit begrudgingly) if they were direct upgraded models and not whole new units. But granularity doesn't seem to be GW's strong suit.

I prefer the new aestetic, it makes them a stark contrast with everything else on the table. I have an all primaris force in the making, and it looks dashing compared to my Admech or old Marines.

The legs have a role to play. Old Marines, I had trouble understanding how they could even move, especially the boxed dread. Seeing them redesigned in the videogame just so they could animate them in a proper way made me laugh too much. Now the redemptor is imposing.

Still, I understand how they cannot be liked.

 skchsan wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
I feel like the right way of doing things was to do what they've been doing all along on running their business - provide huge power creep to specific units to push sales for existing range.

No.

I dont think staying the course straight into the pooper is a good idea.

I would've been more inclined to replace my marine range (albeit begrudgingly) if they were direct upgraded models and not whole new units. But granularity doesn't seem to be GW's strong suit.

You really think so? how many old bloods you think would of bought new devistator kits or tactical marine squads when they already have those things in spades. or just gotten the new shiny weapons off 3rd party or ebay sellers.

it really doesnt make GW any real money and they are still stuck with old stock.

its a bad business decision to do so.

 posermcbogus wrote:
The long legs is an interesting observation, and got me thinking a bit about why I'm not a fan of the Primaris range.

I really like the Hajime Katoki Gundam designs, and he is famous for giving his mobile suits, and even revising older mobile suits, to have long legs. I quite like this, as it gives the Gundam a nice, sleek feel, and I think it helps create a sense of movement and action when you pose them, especially for models 'in-flight'.
But I think It clashes with the classic aesthetic of space marines. For a long time, marines have been depicted as like human tanks. The stocky bulk of the classic marine feels very fitting. They have huge armored plates on their chests and shoulders, and their poses kind of reflect that sense of weight, which feels proportional to their size.
Despite their radically increase stature, primaris marines don't feel like their reflect that sense of weight. Their proportions have been adjusted to match the size of their pauldrons, and so that sense of heaviness is reduced. On top of that, I feel like some of the armor plates have been added arbitrarily, just to use up space and fill out areas where details have been lost due to upscaling. I think this also takes away from the original design, as it gives them a more utilitarian look - something taken to really silly extents with the newer kits - and less of the clunky weight of the classic design.
In the grand scheme of things, this, plus the abandoning of the skull-invoking mk VII helmet makes them blend into the amorphous mass of power-armored sci-fi suits. Iron man, Master Chief, the various troopers of Star Wars, the list is long.
Classic marines looked heavy. They looked ultra-reinforced. They were bigger than a man, but they looked like, somewhere inside, there were large men, soaking up fire. The shock troops of a war-torn, decaying empire. Primaris look a bit like any power suited sci-fi guys, and only seem 'bigger' because the models are literally larger. That weightiness, that sense of bulk has disappeared, along with some of their uniqueness.

The same can be said for the new drednoughts. I LOVE the classic dred design. Again, in a pop-culture universe dominated by sleek war machines, and great walking mobile fortresses, the dred feels old. It feels like it clanks about the battlefield, ancient pilot's grisly remains fused inside - it's brilliant and unique, and totally 40k - I particularly like the idea that some chapters actively fear being interred in drednoughts, that they're last-option solutions to a crisis in experienced manpower. By giving them sleek fingers, and longer legs with the new primaris dreds, GW have again moved towards a more unremarkable aesthetic. I can see why some people might like the new rollcage dred, as it pretty explicitly invokes Aliens, a movie I also love. But it has no place in the space marine line. It feels sleek, mobile, and light, rather than heavy, ancient and impossibly tough. Tme and time again with primaris marines, we've seen stuff with broad appeal, rather than keeping in line with classic 40k visuals, and it doesn't seem to be getting any better.

This is a great post, worthy of preservation.

 Ishagu wrote:
If Guardsmen can have walkers so can Astartes. That's all there is to it.

The Sentinel is a light scouting unit for an expendable driver, it makes sense for it to be lightly armored.

The new totally-not-a-dread is a heavy walker with significant armor, it just has a giant "shoot me here" sign with no armor for the driver and a much less expendable marine at risk. And that's not even counting the stupidity of heavy bolter pistols held in a powerfist...