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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Piedmont N.C. of the usa

So heres my rundown
Friendly escalation league for new and long time players. I have played my 500 pts games with all loses (mostly due to tacticle blunders) and the 750 round was not much better but now im just being outgunned.

My 500 pt list
Iyanden patrol
Prince yriel
15 gaurdians
5 rangers
3 warwalkers with 2x missle launchers

750 pt list
Iyanden still
Prince yriel
20 gaudians with 2 shuricannon platforms
10 rangers
3 warwalkers with 2x missle launchers
1 wraithlord with glaive, 2x shuricannon and 2x flamers

We are going to 1000pts next then 1500 and 2000pts

So with my current list and a plan to go iyanden what models will be good to add to this list.

What i do not have.
Flyers
Reapers
Spiders
Nightspinners
Bikes
No FW

Im looking for deployment advice and unit selection advice.

Thanks in advance.




PEACE is a lie, there is only Passion,
through passion, I gain STRENGTH,
through strength, I gain POWER,
through power, I gain VICTORY through. victory, MY CHAINS are BROKEN.

 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Agile Revenant Titan





London, UK

I'll be honest, you shouldn't be using Iyanden for small points games and when you have no units that care about wounds characteristics or morale (for the most part). I would consider using Biel-Tan and maxing the potential of re-rolls and shuriken fire, especially as you have a big blob of guardians and no psychic support. Run Yriel as an Autarch and let him support non-shuriken units. Or run Alaitoc, but that's not very impactful on small boards.

Your war walkers are a good choice at this level, if a little expensive running all EML on them, but they don't care about wounds so Iyanden is wasted on them and they'll never fair morale anyway. Having them barebones halves their price and they get no penalties for movement with shuriken cannons.

The Wraithlord has potential but would also need to be run barebones and used as a distraction carnifex. Biel-tan is useful for him with the access to shuriken weapons on the cheap.

Unless your league has a lot of armour I wouldn't care too much about bringing heavy fire power past loading up on Str 6 fire. If you have Wave Serpents I'd consider running at least two as they're tough and will save your infantry in a pinch.

Rather than state what you don't have, state what you do have and what missions you'll be doing to maximise your chances of winning.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/13 12:13:23


5000 Fir Farillecassion Eldar 4th Ed Codex - 14/7/1 6th Ed Codex - 9/1/0 7th Ed Codex - 4/1/1 8th Ed Codex - 8/1/2
2000 Hive Fleet Zenith
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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Piedmont N.C. of the usa

Itc missions i believe. So its capture points and/or kill points each turn.

First hurdle im struggling with is that i cannot kill enemy units. All my firepower focused takes 3-5 turns to kill off one enemy troop. Crons or marines. The damage output is low and the saves are too good.

Models i have: (i dont have bikers bc they asthetically dont match my models, after i got the walkers vauls wrath and vypers 7th was gone so i never even got to play my eldar formations)

Auserman
Mugen ra
Jain zar
Avatar of khain
Farseer
Eldrad
5 warlocks + (5 custom warlocks that proxy as other hqs too)
2 spiritseers

20 dire avengers
5 rangers
80 guardian defenders
9 weapons platforms

5 wrathblades
10 wraithgaurd
11 banshees
10 scorpians
5 fire dragons

6 war walkers
4 wraithlords
3 vauls wraiths
1 fire prism
3 falcons

3 vypers

5 wave serpents

3 wraith knights

I play eldar for wraiths but they always lost so this league i was opening with support units i never used. The rangers and war walkers.

Ive lost probably 90% of all my games since 2013 (in the hundreds of games) and 8th edition has been beyond cruel to me. So much so i had quit playing for about a year bc the rules kept changing every game.

Ill be honest that i loved 7th but thats because every game was fun even though i lost (and the brb was so clear and concise). In 8th it feels like a shoot out thats still decided on turn 2. Theres no room for trading punches and no way to hide n seek to not die. And yes our tables have deceant los now but if i cant shoot im losing ground anyways so i feel forced to shoot every turn but my turn deals 3-5 wounds to primaris marines or crons, their turns wipe out units.

You mentioned shurkin walkers. I thought about those when i started but i decided range was better. And the 6 d6 seem to be rolling more hits and equal if not better wounds than 18 s6 rending. What could i do with the extra points.

I play my wraithlords straight up the feild in cover if im lucky so assault weapons on him are awesome and he makes a great tank buster if anyone i seen still played tanks (without punisher cannons)

My gaurdians are deepstriking but 44 shots dont hurt anything. I get my hits and a good amount of wounds but they get saved and fnp'd away.

The rangers are cool but no hits seem to stick again they cant get wounds through.

Wave serpents in my experience. Cost points, might protect a unit but they cant kill anything bc they dont have enough guns to do any real damage. So they are a point sink i think. Not when i could just webway wraith gaurd.

Im stuck with my posted 750 list for the league but i can change loadouts for my units (and prince yriel only works on iyanden for granting rerolls)

Edit to update model count

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/15 01:49:38


PEACE is a lie, there is only Passion,
through passion, I gain STRENGTH,
through strength, I gain POWER,
through power, I gain VICTORY through. victory, MY CHAINS are BROKEN.

 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Agile Revenant Titan





London, UK

The major thing to consider when you play small points games is questioning how many shots can you put out over the course of a few turns. It doesn't matter on their quality as one of the major benefits with Eldar is the access to rerolls, which deletes units if you focus fire things down.

Here's a list that I'm running in a league that I'm through to the quarter finals in (100% win rate):

Battalion - Biel Tan

Farseer Skyrunner w/ singing spear, doom, executioner
Spiritseer w/spirit stone of anathlan, natural leader, protect/jinx

2x 5 avengers w/ double catapult exarch
6x avengers w/ double catapult exarch
5 rangers

3x dark reapers w/ tempest launcher exarch

3x wave serpents w/cannons and cannon

The list is very different to yours but you have the core units where you could make something similar. Going for the guardian bomb can be hit or miss but if you run them as Biel-Tan you can comfortably get away with bombing them in without psychic support as they'll reroll ones. Couple that with fire and fade then next turn with celestial shield and you have a blob of very durable guys. The bonus to psychic support is that dooming the unit you shoot gives you a good chance of just outright killing things.

Wave Serpents are great, fire output is somewhat lacking but in order to kill something, your opponent has to pump shots into one a turn to kill it thus keeping everything else in your army safe.

War Walkers do have comparisons between EML and Shuriken cannons, but the latter is half the cost of the former and receive no penalties from moving, which is what Walkers should be doing to support other units. 18 str 6 shots coming in from a board edge turn two throws a lot of opponents and they slot nicely into the army I listed above as you don't have Reapers.

I've not used Vaul's Wrath Batteries, but they're cheap and in ITC they're excellent units that ignore cover.

5000 Fir Farillecassion Eldar 4th Ed Codex - 14/7/1 6th Ed Codex - 9/1/0 7th Ed Codex - 4/1/1 8th Ed Codex - 8/1/2
2000 Hive Fleet Zenith
Excavating eBay: My blog of eBay finds and the pile of shame!
Instagram, follow if you dare!
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Piedmont N.C. of the usa

How are you using your wave serpents..?

When i used to use serpents they were rarely targeted till endgame so by turn 3 i was left with serpents on the board and no other units. And 9 shots each the 2 serpents were not useful.

Last night with the 750 list i grabbed 3 objectives by turn 2.

Turn 1 i shot at a doomsday ark with the walkers and wraithlord and managed only 4 damage then the lord suffered a few wounds but soaked up all firepower.

Turn 2 i dropped the gaurdians onto an objective and only almost cleared off a unit of 10 warriors. With the 36 s4 shots and 12 s6 shots from weapons platforms and the lord.
Rangers entered onto and obj shot the overlord for 2 wounds.
Walkers shot the ark again trying to cripple it.
The gaurdian survived the lord was oblitorated.

Turn 3 the gaurdians failed to finish the warriors and they got wiped. The rangers failed to kill the lord and remained untouched. The walkers done a few more wounds but not cripple the ark. He had 2 obj i had 1 now.

Turn 4 the rangers were oblitorated and failed to wound things
The walkers still could not destroy the ark and sustained 4 wounds on 1

Turn 5 the walkers still could not hurt the ark and they got wiped.

PEACE is a lie, there is only Passion,
through passion, I gain STRENGTH,
through strength, I gain POWER,
through power, I gain VICTORY through. victory, MY CHAINS are BROKEN.

 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Agile Revenant Titan





London, UK

I use my Serpents quite aggressively and force my opponent to fire at them due to there being nothing else to shoot. Charging them into tanks, infantry and anything else that can be put into a tarpit is a huge strategy with them. You have to force them into committing to killing them, which is what my list does extremely well. Keep em moving, keep em shooting and cap objectives with their speed, they do great things.

For instance, my game against Crons in the group stages was a good example. The rangers sit in terrain and they're not fun to shoot at because of the -1 to hit anyway and the +2 to cover. The Reapers sit behind terrain and fire & fade nearly every turn. The Avengers sit in the serpents and get out whenever a serpent is about to be destroyed or late game when they can ObSec something. The Farseer can get across the board pretty easily with a bike and can dish out mortal wounds if required. The spiritseer gives support to the rangers and the reapers with the Biel-tan warlord trait and can't be targeted through screening.

My opponent had a blob of warriors, immortals, deathmarks, ark and command barge lord. As small point games are all about the mission, I focused on the troops he had and ignored the Ark, it does a lot of damage but it isn't worth putting shots into as long as I have the objectives.

5000 Fir Farillecassion Eldar 4th Ed Codex - 14/7/1 6th Ed Codex - 9/1/0 7th Ed Codex - 4/1/1 8th Ed Codex - 8/1/2
2000 Hive Fleet Zenith
Excavating eBay: My blog of eBay finds and the pile of shame!
Instagram, follow if you dare!
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Piedmont N.C. of the usa

We are getting points for objectives each turn in our games so i kinda have to sit on them or im garunteed to lose. Do you have any advice for a good camping unit..? Could the game type really be messing with my head that much. Its been since 7th that my serpents were cool. I used to run them 30" to my opponents board with wraithgaurd. They would get shot up and explode beside my opponents units and the gaurd would come out of the debris unscathed and fearlessly hunt down the nearst enemy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/15 13:38:58


PEACE is a lie, there is only Passion,
through passion, I gain STRENGTH,
through strength, I gain POWER,
through power, I gain VICTORY through. victory, MY CHAINS are BROKEN.

 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Agile Revenant Titan





London, UK

Games with continuous scoring require proactive plays that deny your opponent scoring.

Sacrificing some points yourself to kill the enemy units denies them points too and having serpents zipping around (even better with vectored or star engines), you can drop off MSU squads of Dire Avengers onto objectives or leave them behind in your deployment if you have an objective there. Leaving rangers in places like that is good so you don't have to move them around much and they have the range to hit things from their camp. If your opponent ignores your serpents, even better, you can do what you want.

5000 Fir Farillecassion Eldar 4th Ed Codex - 14/7/1 6th Ed Codex - 9/1/0 7th Ed Codex - 4/1/1 8th Ed Codex - 8/1/2
2000 Hive Fleet Zenith
Excavating eBay: My blog of eBay finds and the pile of shame!
Instagram, follow if you dare!
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Piedmont N.C. of the usa

So i checked and battalion is req for 1000pts and that starts this week. I dont have to set my list in stone till my first game this round.

1000pts battalion eldar has to include models/units from op 750pt list.

Prince yriel
Spiritseer

20 gaurdians with 2 shuriken cannon platforms
10 rangers
5 dire avengers + exarch with sheild and glaive
In wave serpent 3 shuriken cannons and spirit stones

Walkers 3x with all shurkin cannons
Wraithlord with glaive 2x shuriken cannon and 2x flamers

So i can change unit loadouts but not size so weapon platforms should be able to be removed from my gaurdians. That would let me upgrade to a farseer. I want to add two units of wraithgaurd when i go to 1500 points though so im leaning towards the spirit seer.

So is this a good plan for strategy in your opinion (and what would you change)

Still webway strike the gaurdians with prince yriel for reroll 1s to hit but instead of turn 2 maybe turn 3 or 4. I think my opponet is still too castled at turn 2 so they get shot by everything.

With shurikens i can scout the walkers with no penalty to hit so ill use them as backup for my gaurdians on the same turn. Fire fade the gaurdians and then sheild them on my opponents turn.

That leaves me with rangers camp the closest hidden objective with the wraithlord standing gaurd for turn 1 and 2.

The wave serpent with avengers and seer should be doing what..? Moving to deny least gaurded second objective or hiding and waiting for my deepstrike.

I didnt ask if 1000 points was moving to 4x6 yet.

PEACE is a lie, there is only Passion,
through passion, I gain STRENGTH,
through strength, I gain POWER,
through power, I gain VICTORY through. victory, MY CHAINS are BROKEN.

 
   
Made in de
Defending Guardian Defender





It's a little bit difficult to make suggestions based on your conditions (keeping the 750p selection and having a solution for problems in former games), so I'll just add a few ideas.

Try star cannons on the walkers/serpent/wraithlord. -1 on the move hurts, but star cannons are really a great allround weapon this edition, especially vs. primaris! I would try to keep them close to Yriel instead of deep striking him for the first couple turns.

Are you allowed to split units when keeping the models? 2x10 guardians with platform (would deep strike only one) and 2x5 ranger will make you much more flexible for objectives and a guardian unit in cover can be very sturdy when utilizing the platform's save for small arms fire and removing guardians vs. high ap.

For the long run I would try to get a jetbike farseer (doom + another power) and winged (relic) spiritseer (protect/Jinx). The combination doom and jinx can be gamechanging.

Last, if you're able to split units and therefore wouldn't need a 5 man avenger unit try a cheap vyper. The movement can be very helpful for objective grabbing and it's surprisingly durable unless focussed by anti tank weapons.

This would leave your serpent (almost) empty for now, but I see it's a preparation for wraithguards later anyway.

Sticking to all those shurican weapons looks like a good idea, because you avoid hit penalties on the move, but overall you lack the punch for heavy armor enemies.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Piedmont N.C. of the usa

This weekend is all work so i got a couple more days to brain storm. Ill take a look at shuffling points around for the starcannons. A lot of these game win or lose are about learning about my army. I was so put off by 8th when it came out that ive gotten really rusty. My meta is still mostly competive so there is very little room for me to have good fun games with the units i like. This edition feels very unfriendly to thematic gaming. In 7th as long as we brought the same volume of points to the table every game was amazing and had plenty of tug of war between turns and now i just feel that the game is so pointless.

And it really may just be because i want that thematic feeling back and my coplayers are all competitive which cant go together in 8th.

I really miss feilding my wraightknights. Even in an apocalyptic game they are useless now.

PEACE is a lie, there is only Passion,
through passion, I gain STRENGTH,
through strength, I gain POWER,
through power, I gain VICTORY through. victory, MY CHAINS are BROKEN.

 
   
 
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