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I think the kickstarter was a good way to go with this. Had they just brought it out through their store I would never have bought it. Maybe picked up a team of two to chop up and fit into another game but I see it as good enough of a deal that I want to be in on the fun!

Only about 4k until next stretch!

 Dysartes wrote:
Out of interest, Alex, is there actually anything you're happy about with this KS? Almost every update seems to fetch a new complaint from you.

There is nothing about this Kickstarter that I find good through-and-through. There are many things that could be good with a bit of thought, and a couple that I'd write off completely.

Things like making it possible to buy all the components required to play a game of Dreadball without being forced to buy the 29ers. Or not making the individual teams even more expensive than previous restic models like the Corporation Marines, which are themselves more expensive than the ones that came before that like the Wraiths. Or even little things like not constantly belittling the Corporation for the sake of cheap laughs, or playing Helger straight as a female Dreadball player with an Offensive Line's build instead of making a fat joke.

And I do not say these things because I don't like Mantic (well, except for my indifference towards a sculpted portrait of Ronnie Renton being added to the game), I do not like Mantic because they give me cause to say these things.

you can buy a copy of dreadball without picking up the 29ers. you could get 2 season 2 teams, MDD pitch, cards, counters, refbot, balls and a copy of the rules all for $76


Automatically Appended Next Post:
you can buy a copy of dreadball without picking up the 29ers. you could get 2 season 2 teams, MDD pitch, cards, counters, refbot, balls and a copy of the rules all for $76

 scarletsquig wrote:
Basically, Mantic has massively rationed The Striker and Jack levels all of a sudden. There are around 150 Jacks and 400 Strikers left. Once they're gone, they're gone, that's it. So, what we're seeing is a surge from people who were on the fence about this, saw the rationed Striker level and went "crap, I gotta do this now or I'll miss it".

If you want in on this, DO IT NOW, because in about 3 days time, you won't be able to get in on it at the "sweet spot".

We just burned through 60 Striker pledges in the space of 6 hours, and I would hate to see anyone on dakka who has been on the fence about this to miss out.

Or you could take a gamble that new pledges identical to Striker which ship *after* December will be added later. But that is basically a giant gamble at this point in time, we don't know what Mantic is or isn't going to pull out of the hat at this point.

They really should have stated the limit on their manufacturing capabilities right from the start rather than springing it on people like this. Not only would have it been better in terms of communication, it would have encouraged more people to pledge earlier.

Well, that definitely seals it for me- I will not be pledging for this.

Quite a gamble on their part that seems to be paying off. But it feels manipulative to me. They have 1500 Striker pledges available, but only 200 Jack? Those numbers look artificial to me and more as a way to spur flagging demand in the typical slow-down mid-Kickstarter.

So, yeah... I'm not going to be goaded into pledging during the typical slow-down period by making the sweet spot a limited pledge. What will they do when they run out- offer a similar pledge for a bit more?

I'm not going to play that game... so, lost customer here. But it looks like plenty of people are willing to...

What will they do when they run out- offer a similar pledge for a bit more?

Similar pledge with a later shipping date.

The limited quantitiy is what they feel they can handle and ship on time (December)

 Black Nexus wrote:
you can buy a copy of dreadball without picking up the 29ers. you could get 2 season 2 teams, MDD pitch, cards, counters, refbot, balls and a copy of the rules all for $76

I stand corrected. I did not see the cards being added.

 RiTides wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:
Basically, Mantic has massively rationed The Striker and Jack levels all of a sudden. There are around 150 Jacks and 400 Strikers left. Once they're gone, they're gone, that's it. So, what we're seeing is a surge from people who were on the fence about this, saw the rationed Striker level and went "crap, I gotta do this now or I'll miss it".

If you want in on this, DO IT NOW, because in about 3 days time, you won't be able to get in on it at the "sweet spot".

We just burned through 60 Striker pledges in the space of 6 hours, and I would hate to see anyone on dakka who has been on the fence about this to miss out.

Or you could take a gamble that new pledges identical to Striker which ship *after* December will be added later. But that is basically a giant gamble at this point in time, we don't know what Mantic is or isn't going to pull out of the hat at this point.

They really should have stated the limit on their manufacturing capabilities right from the start rather than springing it on people like this. Not only would have it been better in terms of communication, it would have encouraged more people to pledge earlier.

Well, that definitely seals it for me- I will not be pledging for this.

Quite a gamble on their part that seems to be paying off. But it feels manipulative to me. They have 1500 Striker pledges available, but only 200 Jack? Those numbers look artificial to me and more as a way to spur flagging demand in the typical slow-down mid-Kickstarter.

So, yeah... I'm not going to be goaded into pledging during the typical slow-down period by making the sweet spot a limited pledge. What will they do when they run out- offer a similar pledge for a bit more?

I'm not going to play that game... so, lost customer here. But it looks like plenty of people are willing to...

It's frankly a rather cynical move that is unlikely to be fruitful in the long term, I think. I have some passing interesting in the game, so I grabbed one of the Striker! pledges. Why not, after all? I don't have to pay for some time, and if I don't "get in line" now, I'm out of luck.

But I'm leaning strongly to not getting it. I'm mostly indifferent to the 4 teams that come with the box (much more interested in the season 2 teams), and frankly would probably benefit from waiting for the Warpath KS. But here I sit, holding my place in line on the off-chance something strikes me later.

That just doesn't seem like a great policy on their part.

Yeah I know, right?

I mean, why shoot yourself in the foot... I'm like any gamer, easily tempted by the clock ticking down and a great deal slipping through my fingers

They suddenly decided, mid-campaign, to take that deal off the table before the end. Thereby really turning off folks who would have pledged at the end otherwise.

It may pay off... but it does not with me, at least...

Okay, ti,e to clarify some things, obviously.
Buzzsaw, AlexHolker: all this limit means is that this is all they can deliver before christmas. Once these run out, additional sets will be available at the same price, you'll just get them a few weeks or so later.
@black nexus: BOGOF teams are only available at striker! Or above. Two teams:2*40. MDF pitch:25. Counters:10. Cards:8. Refbot+ball:5. Total: $88. Still, valid point.

And we have reached Coach Renton. Hopefully, they wake up and add another stretch goal soon.


WOOP, I spoke too soon, just got the email for the next stretch! Female and Z'zor Keepers!

Bolognesus wrote:
Okay, ti,e to clarify some things, obviously.
Buzzsaw, AlexHolker: all this limit means is that this is all they can deliver before christmas. Once these run out, additional sets will be available at the same price, you'll just get them a few weeks or so later.
@black nexus: BOGOF teams are only available at striker! Or above. Two teams:2*40. MDF pitch:25. Counters:10. Cards:8. Refbot+ball:5. Total: $88. Still, valid point.

Ehhhhhh... considering how incredibly loose the shipping estimates are on a kickstarter, that seems a lot more like a convenient justification for an attempt to get people off the sidelines then a legitimate excuse. Consider the text of their update:

We are rapidly approaching the end of our first print run and to make absolutely certain that we deliver on all of our promises we've put some caps on the Jack and Striker levels - the two most popular levels for new backers - to ensure that we can meet demand and guarantee that these all ship in time for Christmas. All uncapped pledges (for instance Guard and Cheerleader) are also guaranteed to arrive before Christmas - we're just conscious of the increasing levels we're seeing!

If you've got mates that are looking at this game and are thinking about it, please let them know that know is the time to get in on this once-in-a-lifetime offer!

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, if this is the limit of their print run, why didn't they have the limits from the beginning?

Put another way, I know that's their justification, I just don't care.

Keep Ball
Update #51 · Sep. 20, 2012 · 3 comments WOW – amazing stuff guys, we’ve broken our previous Kings of War Kickstarter total with 9 days to go! That means that Coach Renton is now included in Jack and Striker!


We’re going to keep working on finishing Seasons 1 and 2 over the next couple of stretches (Cheerleaders, prone figures, one or two new MVPs and alternate sculpts have all been suggested), starting with these…

$370,000 –Female Corporation and Z’zor Season 2 Keepers



Becoming a Keeper takes years of physical and mental conditioning. Corporations tend to invest in two to three personal coaches to train a single Keeper and often draft in promising new recruits from the army because of their experience with intense training and heavy exertion.



Z’zor Keepers are surgically altered Guards who have demonstrated particular resilience on the field of play. They have a scoop-like claw grafted in place of one of their pincers and hardened armour plates are layered over the previous exo-skeleton to make these beasts even more imposing.

Keepers are upgrades to Guards earned through experience over a league and you can have as many Keepers as you can have Guards. If we pass this goal we will be able to fund two different Season 2 Keeper sculpts – one for the female Corporation and one for the Z’zor – and put them together as a Buy One Get One Free bundle for just $8!

Note that as they are a team of Strikers the Judwan do not have a Keeper. The Robots we’re less sure on but we think they could be a team of Jacks.
Thanks guys!

 Buzzsaw wrote:

Ehhhhhh... considering how incredibly loose the shipping estimates are on a kickstarter, that seems a lot more like a convenient justification for an attempt to get people off the sidelines then a legitimate excuse.

Mantic doesn't treat the shipping times listed on the kickstarter as an estimate, it treats them as a deadline. All that KoW KS stuff? Already shipped (except obviously for the stuff that hasn't been sculpted/tooled yet).

The bulk of other companies doing kickstarters might treat them as a casual estimate, but Mantic does not. One out of 3 kickstarter projects fail to meet their estimates (sometimes massively), and its one of the things that puts people off of pledging in the first place.

Better that they be up-front about how much they can realistically deliver rather than promise what they can't, especially when "delivery before Christmas" is the goal, people do get really annoyed if that particular date gets missed for some odd reason.

I'm fairly certain we'll see a new late bird striker pledge appear, most likely involving a single delivery of everything at once, sometime in early 2013.


I only posted an encouragement to get a pledge in now before the Striker level runs out as a courtesy to Dakka members paying casual attention to this who might have otherwise missed it.

I'm also fairly certain that this isn't a "cynical ploy" by them (oh jeez, how many times have we heard *that* line in this thread?), as evidenced by the fact that the massive surge in pledges took them completely by surprise and resulted in a 20k stretch without any new stretch goals being posted... and yes, before you post a reply to that, the kickstarter comments filled up with "Mantic is doing this deliberately to get our money without any stretches in return" before the staff even had a chance to wake up, so any continuation of the marketing ploy conspiracy into that territory has already surfaced elsewhere.

I'm really pleased that the cards have been added as optional extras, it looks like people will be able to buy the game without having to buy the initial two teams if they want, now! You can even just buy the one team if you want.

It has surfaced elsewhere because it's an obvious criticism

It's great that they want to deliver on-time. But if they had those limits, they should've been upfront about it.

You actually said this yourself in the post I quoted, I was simply agreeing with you! And I also agree it was worth posting for Dakka members to get on then if they wanted in. Doesn't mean it's a great move by them, though (as you seemed to agree with).

 scarletsquig wrote:
I'm really pleased that the cards have been added as optional extras, it looks like people will be able to buy the game without having to buy the initial two teams if they want, now! You can even just buy the one team if you want.

More importantly....Striker + set of cards + ref + pitch = 2 people each get a set of the game (then they can add extras and fill out new teams, keepers, etc.. as they want).

i suspect the limit is there because they hadn't anticipated quite the take up they were going to get bearing in mind that print run isn't just restricted to kickstarter but retail as well. they'd have looked pretty stupid if there was a limit of 2000 strikera in the beginning and they ended with 1500 of them left it would look like a failure.

scarletsquig wrote:

 Buzzsaw wrote:

Ehhhhhh... considering how incredibly loose the shipping estimates are on a kickstarter, that seems a lot more like a convenient justification for an attempt to get people off the sidelines then a legitimate excuse.

...

I'm also fairly certain that this isn't a "cynical ploy" by them...

Well, Gosh. If their reassurances have convinced you, then how can I possibly quibble with them?

Ahh, just giving you a hard time. The problem is, of course, that if what you/they say is the unvarnished truth, it raises some... interesting questions. Besides, certain facts just speak for themselves.

RiTides wrote:It has surfaced elsewhere because it's an obvious criticism

It's great that they want to deliver on-time. But if they had those limits, they should've been upfront about it.

You actually said this yourself in the post I quoted, I was simply agreeing with you! And I also agree it was worth posting for Dakka members to get on then if they wanted in. Doesn't mean it's a great move by them, though (as you seemed to agree with).

That's the interesting question, about the limits: the reason given for capping Striker! pledges is that they are "nearing the end of the print run", and they want to make sure everyone gets their stuff. But at the same time, they are guaranteeing that Cheerleader pledges will be delivered on time. Cheerleader pledges are simply "2 x Striker! Two of everything from Striker!".

So... they are worried about running out of Striker! packages for Christmas... but if you pay more upfront and buy more, you are guaranteed to get it by Christmas. Not at all curious.

Also, if the print run is coming to an end, does that mean that the print run has already been finalized? If they intend world-wide shipping and delivery by end of December, that seems pretty likely. So... since the kickstarter isn't over yet, how did they finalize the contents of the first print run? I mean, the very first stretch goal was The Ref, who was not going to be a part of any sets (kickstarter or otherwise) unless that stretch was met (she would be bought separately). That goal was met, so all the sets shipping will have The Ref in it.

So either that statement (much argued about in this thread, if I recall correctly) was mere puffery, or they decided, some time between that goal being met and now, to finalize their details on the print run. Before the Kickstarter closed, and before any money actually went to them. So when did they finalize? Why would they finalize, since it was during the kickstarter, with a number of copies that would force a limitation (well, except on people that bought in bulk...)?

Mysteries wrapped in enigmas... woooooo....

362,527 of 370,000 with 9 days to go.

Yesterday in the comments there was mention that Cheerleaders may be heading our way soon.

I imagine that the stuff not made by mantic like the box board, rules, cards, card counters were ordered before the KS started, so there was a limit on how many sets they could complete.... probably determined by a combination of how much they could afford, and what they hoped the KS would provide, as we've passed the KOW one with 10 days to go

(they don't seem to have taken delivery of any of it yet to as they are still demoing/videoing prototypes of the board, card counters etc)

When the box and contents arrive at mantic HQ they will then add they figures/hex bases etc that they do make themselves, so no problem with adding a ref figure or anything else like that the KS funds




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Anyhoo

on to the new update

Renton Ramblings - DreadBall update!


Update #52 · Sep. 21, 2012 · 10 comments


When he’s not busy prancing around in a cheerleader outfit, Ronnie talks non-stop about DreadBall and how great it is. John-luc Haywood managed to get a camera in front of him for one of his rambles…

There should be a video here but I can't get it to come across, Ronnie talking about progress, and where he wants the project to go

There are a couple of important points Ronnie has touched on there:

1) Extra packs of cards are available in the extras!



2) Acrylic upgrade packs for your pitches are now available as an add-on the front page including upgraded hex shaped Acrylic Counters!







These packs are fully interchangeable with the Quadrant Zero MDF gaming pitch or the premium Co-prosperity Park Arena - use them to “brand” your pitch in support of your team!



3) Ok, Ronnie might not have mentioned dice but we can confirm that they will be etched and not printed >

Also, we had some questions about the quality of the T-shirts so designer Sam has asked Julian to model this Midgard Delvers t-shirt for us!



They are made in the same material as actual football shirts. Think we're all down for one too!

PS - Ronnie is over in Ireland today meeting up with the guys at Beasts of War. Shaping up to be an exciting weekend I can tell you!

Does anyone know which models are Kickstarter exclusives? I'm probably going to wait for retail for the game itself, but I definitely want Wyn Grethski and Batelf...

Wyn Grethski is not quite KS exclusive but will be tricky to get (probably conventions, mantic points or some such)

Nightshade is the same almost exclusive

Coach Renton is a KS exclusive

T-Shirts KS exclusive

Dice KS exclusive

The Full Acrylic pitch may well be KS exclusive as Mantic feel it may be too expensive to sell via retail (and if they do the price will rise a fair bit)

that's it so far

I asked if they're planning on making clear Strike Zones for people wanting to do light-work under the game board(Like for when a score is successfully made), but unfortunately, they're not currently planning this. Nor do they have an option for those of us who cannot attend the convention that the ticket's for.

I really like the keeper models I've seen for all the races so far.

Another tease



ForgeFather MVP guard

not anounced as a target (instead as a new artist tester) but......

I have a feeling $370k is the goal for that one...


...and that its by Heath Foley.

edit err, not goal, but when we'll see it announced.

Hmm...does look like he made his own armour while locked in the garage by The Bad Guys (tm)

We hit the target and have not one, but 2 new stretches


$385,000 – Forge Father Alternate Sculpts

We’ve been inundated with requests for more variant sculpts and if we pass this stretch goal we’ll be able to fund three new alternate sculpts for the Forge Father Midgard Delvers – a Striker, a Jack and a Guard. Sculpting these alternate models is like funding a whole new team, so it’s a big undertaking and one we’re sure you’ll help us with!

To say thank you we will upgrade the four Forge Father players from the Full Roster ($250,000) Stretch Goal to these new sculpts* meaning you'll get more variety in your set!



Original Forge Father Concept Art by Roberto Cirillo

But that’s not all - DreadBall is a bloody and violent game and big models on the board sometimes get in the way of play when they’ve been knocked over. To help with this, we’ll also sculpt a “Prone” counter to denote knocked over models at the same time and include one free at Striker! – at the very least it’ll protect your paint jobs!



Prone Counter concept art by new artist Heath Foley for illustrative purposes only – obviously you’ll be getting a Forge Father counter!

That’s one big upgrade for the Forge Father team, but that’s not all we’ve got… you asked for him, so here he is!

$400,000 – Yurik “Painmaster” Yurikson, Forge Father Guard MVP

Yurik Yurikson is notoriously difficult to interview. He doesn't like to talk about how he got into DreadBall, or how he found himself slumming it as a Free Agent for almost a decade before rejoining the Midgard Delvers, or how he once took down three opposing guards with a single Slam. In fact, all Yurik wants to talk about is how much he hates “Brickbat” Vognar, long-serving guard with the Manglers.

The common belief is that it all stems back to a head injury he receives courtesy of the Orc Guard back at SlamBall IV. One thing's for sure, that's the last time he spoke to a journalist without spewing bile about the “worthless son of a Grogun” who “needs to be taught a lesson in pain” and who “won't be so damned cocky with a...” ...well, we can't print the rest of that quote, but I think we all remember it. Yurik's tirades have become legendary, to the point where there's a small legion of fans who watch him play just so they can see what he says before and after the game...



Early Concept Art by Heath Foley - drop us your feedback in the comments and tell us what you want to see!

This would be another amazing milestone number achieved and we’ll be able to fund Yurik “Painmaster” Yurikson – a Forge Father Guard MVP. Often described as the “Iron Ancestor of the DreadBall pitch,” Yurik suits up in full DreadBall armour in anticipation of a chance encounter with “Brickbat” Vognar.

If we hit this goal, we’ll be able to sculpt Yurik and include him in Jack and Striker!, rounding out our 8 Season 2 MVPs!

Have at it guys, that's a big Forge Father upgrade and we've still got plenty of stuff to come - Cheerleaders and more alternate sculpts are around the corner and we've also seen Asterian Concepts (including a note from Roberto saying that the Asterian MVP is one "Sexy pointy-eared" lady.) We're looking forwards to that and Ultimate DreadBall!

*Ships Q2 2013

(Looks like Orlando's a faster typer than me /sniped/)

Sexy female space elf MVP you say Mantic?, at first you had my curiosity, now you have my attention.

Really like the Forge Fathers.

Not so sure about the prone model. I think it would actually be simpler just to lay my lightweight plastic model on it's back then remember if the prone guy is a guard or jack.

I support the inclusion of Alt Sculpts for the original teams. Four identical players would be a bit...er...samey.